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Woman’s ties to anthrax case unclear
Originally published August 03, 2008


By Comfort Dorn
News-Post Staff

Woman’s ties to anthrax case unclear
Staff file photo by Travis S. Pratt


Bruce Ivins plays keyboard with the band Celtic Live at Bushwaller's in Frederick on March 17, 2006..
Two days after a media frenzy following the news that Jean Duley sought legal protection from Bruce Ivins, the chief suspect in the 2001 anthrax attacks, Duley has gone into hiding.

Ivins died Tuesday at Frederick Memorial Hospital, an apparent suicide.

Duley, 45, filed for a peace order against him July 24 in Frederick County District Court, accusing him of stalking, threats and harassment. A temporary peace order was granted that day.

Duley's fianc? of seven years, Mike McFadden, spoke to The Frederick News-Post on Saturday from their home in Williamsport and provided a statement on her behalf.

"Jean is currently at an undisclosed location," McFadden said.

Duley had numerous meetings with the FBI in the past month, McFadden said, but he declined to provide specific information about those meetings.

He said Ivins had threatened Duley's life.

Court documents state that Ivins had made "homicidal threats, actions, plans, threats and actions towards therapist."

Duley, a social worker, led counseling sessions attended by Ivins.

The story of Ivins' death and investigation by the FBI broke early Friday. Since then, McFadden said, Duley has been hounded by the national press.

Someone broke into her car Friday night, McFadden said, though no police report was filed. "Nothing was taken," he said, "but everything was jumbled up."

Duley told the court she had been subpoenaed to testify before a federal grand jury Friday. She was reluctant to become involved in the FBI's investigation of Ivins, McFadden said. "She had to quit her job and is now unable to work, and we have spent our savings on attorneys."

McFadden would not provide any specific information about Duley's involvement with Ivins or the investigation.

"Jean is the kind of person who believes her life is insignificant in comparison with the kind of damage Dr. Ivins is capable of," he said. "She sacrificed all this stuff because she wanted to do the right thing. She'll soon reveal what many wouldn't because they didn't want to be involved with it."

At the request of her attorney, Duley is unable to say anything, McFadden said. "She'd appreciate some semblance of privacy."

With Ivins dead, the Justice Department is expected to decide within days whether to close what had been one of its most high-profile unsolved cases, according to the Associated Press. Prosecutors were mulling this weekend whether to tell a grand jury investigating evidence against Ivins to close the case. If that happens, court documents outlining the government's evidence are expected to be unsealed.

Two U.S. officials said victims and their survivors could be briefed as early as Tuesday, the AP reports.

Frederick Mayor Jeff Holtzinger told the News-Post he was briefed on the situation by Frederick Police Department Chief Kim Dine, but did not have any dealings with officials from the FBI or USAMRIID.

"It's a tragedy for the family," he said.

Despite the news that a Fort Detrick scientist may have been the source of the deadly anthrax attacks that killed five people, Holtzinger did not consider the base a harm to the surrounding community.

"Fort Detrick has an excellent safety record," he said. "I just don't think you can provide 100 percent safeguard from someone who intends to do harm."

Ivins shared two anthrax-related patents with other scientists. The first, filed in November 1994, was for a system to produce a protective antigen against bacillus anthracis. The second, filed in March 2000, was for making an anthrax vaccine. The other local inventors listed on the patents could not be reached for comment.

Maryland's chief medical examiner, Dr. David Fowler, confirmed Saturday that the cause of Ivins' death was found to be an overdose of acetaminophen, the active drug in Tylenol; and that it was ruled a suicide based on information from police and doctors, according to the AP.

Kimberly Thomas, a forensic examiner with the Maryland Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, would not comment Saturday on results from Ivins' autopsy or confirm Dr. Fowler's statement.

Despite the widespread publicity following Ivins' death, Keeney and Basford Funeral Home said Saturday that the family had made no changes to funeral arrangements announced Friday in his obituary. A memorial service is scheduled for 10 a.m. Saturday at St. John the Evangelist Roman Catholic Church in Frederick , followed by a reception at the church parish hall.

Ivins' brother, Tom Ivins, said he had not spoken to Bruce Ivins since 1985, but acknowledged the possibility his brother may have been the anthrax mailer.

"It makes sense, what the social worker said," Tom Ivins said. "He considered himself like a god."

Ivins' wife Diane refused to comment today from the couple's home on Military Road in Frederick .

Their two children posted messages to their father on their Facebook pages Wednesday.

Daughter Amanda wrote, "forever my hero, forever in my heart, forever my daddy É rest in peace I will always love you!!"

Son Andy wrote, "I will miss you Dad. I love you and I can't wait to see you in Heaven. Rest in peace. It's finally over."

News-Post reporters Nicholas Stern, Adam Behsudi and Sarah Fortney, and the Associated Press contributed to this story.



Your comments Post your comments »

100 comments

August 03, 2008 @ 02:46 AM: dolphin1029

I would think out of all the news that could be published in frederick county there would be something a little better to put on the front page of the paper. I find this article extremely ugly and not something I would want my child reading while in school doing a current events piece. O.k. i feel sorry for the fact that this person has passed away; but that happens. If it was suicide then that is a private thing that the family has to deal with. I just find this whole piece utter garbage.

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August 03, 2008 @ 03:01 AM: mlaw42

a Fort Detrick microbiologist is treated for depression by the US Government and then 'commits suicide' - thus preventing him from 'telling all'. Sounds familiar? Anyone remember the mysterious 1953 case of the Fort Detrick Special Operations Division scientist, Frank Olson, who, after receiving treatment for depression by a CIA contracted therapist, 'committed suicide' by jumping from a hotel window - even though he was under close supervision at the time? As I remember it, his family received an apology from the White House in the mid-'70s. Coincidentally, the then White House Chief of Staff was Donald Rumsfeld. Recently discovered documents have revealed that both Rumsfeld and Cheney (then a White House Assistant) were both involved in covering up some of the facts surrounding Frank Olson's death. For further info on the Olson case, check out http://www.frankolsonproject.org/

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August 03, 2008 @ 03:42 AM: jpaulrobinson522

The first two sentences of this story: (1) "Ivins died Tuesday at Frederick Memorial Hospital, an apparent suicide;" (2) "Duley, 45, filed for a peace order against him July 24 in Frederick County District Court, accusing him of stalking, threats and harassment." DEAR NEWS POST EDITORS: WHO, PRAY TELL, ARE/WERE IVANS AND DULEY? SHOULDN'T STORIES BE ABLE TO STAND ALONE WITHOUT THE READER HAVING TO DO MORE RESEARCH? DOES ANYONE AT THE NEWS POST PROOFREAD ANYTHING?

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August 03, 2008 @ 06:47 AM: coffeecat121

Again follow the money..who is really making the money from 9/11? It has not been me or anyone else I know..follow the MONEY..cause it will always lead to the TRUTH.

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August 03, 2008 @ 07:07 AM: steven09

NBC is reporting that the FBI will close the case as early as tomorrow.

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August 03, 2008 @ 07:13 AM: Joanne3dog

The way that article was written in the beginning, was the worst writing I have ever seen. Someone needs to edit these articles, If you didnt already know anything about this suicide or Ivans, you would have no idea what the writer was talking about. BAD front page article, sorry

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August 03, 2008 @ 07:28 AM: you_need_to_listen

Comfort Dorn--PLEASE proofread your articles...the beginning of this article is horrendous! Journalism 101 teaches you that you must NEVER assume that the reader already knows the key information in the story. So leading off with last names only and jumping into the story this way feels like the first two paragraphs are missing. Is the FNP this desperate that they are publishing horribly written articles like this on the front page of the Sunday paper?! It looks like the rough draft got printed.

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August 03, 2008 @ 07:43 AM: quigley_brown

"She had to quit her job and is now unable to work, and we have spent our savings on attorneys."---as usual, it's only the lawyers who will come out ahead in an incident like this.

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August 03, 2008 @ 07:44 AM: mjaz62

Why is everyone willing to accept the allegations of a single woman, who's motivations are unclear? Miss Duley is an addictions counselor in Frederick (with her own history of probable substance use). It appears that she was counseling Ivins for "something". In her handwritten affadavit for a peace order against him ( http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0801081anthrax1.html?link=rssfeed )and then her court testimony (which was voice recorded - the NYT has the audio on it's site http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/audio/national/20080802scientist.mp3 ), she claims "...the respondent has actually attempted to murder several other people, either through poisoning. He is a revenge killer. When he feels that he's been slighted or has had — especially toward women — he plots and actually tries to carry out revenge killings". So my question is who is this woman, what was her relationship, and why is the media reporting her statements as "fact"? She took the liberty of disclosing that (she believes) he was diagnosed as a homicidal sociopath - doesn't that seem like it should be considered privileged information by a mental health professional which she indicates that she is? Maybe she is a "hero" as her fiancee claims, or maybe she is a crackpot. One thing I noticed on the peace order is she did not answer the question of whether she was in a sexual relationship with him. (She answered the other questions). What does THAT mean? Anyway, the media seems perfectly willing to cut and paste this woman's allegations into the big story, without a second thought, which is blurring the big picture.

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August 03, 2008 @ 07:55 AM: mjaz62

you_need_to_listen - give it up! The FNP is apparently unable or unwilling to invest in literate employees, and seem completely unconcerned about it. It's sad that these "professionals" don't seem to know elementary-school level journalism rules. The only reason to post on this site is because it is local - but I suggest that if you want good reporting - you look elsewhere!

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August 03, 2008 @ 08:08 AM: you_need_to_listen

mjaz62-- Point taken ;-) It is so frustrating...Frederick is the backdrop for a national story...this is the top story on abcnew.com today...I'm sure there will be people who will do some research and check out the information printed in the FNP...since it is the local paper for the story. It saddens me to know that in the eyes of the public, Ms Dorn's haphazard attempt at writing will be representing our community.

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August 03, 2008 @ 08:27 AM: BCianflone

mlaw42 That is a very interesting point you make; I will have to read some more about that case. it is good to have historical knowledge in this and other cases. And it is true that the FBI has stated it plans on closing the case, albeit two special agents have told investigative reporters from that large city newspaper we are so fond of quoting that they did not wish it to close as there is still doubt regarding the circumstantial evidence involved implicating just one person. The emails sent by the therapist and others involved are being analyzed, and there is much more to the crime than a clear-cut "Case Closed" would indicate. For example, the sealed Grand Jury indictment was sent electronically in real-time to someone in Frederick, and that is a Federal crime. In the end, my heart goes out to Ivins' widow and family, as they are left behind to cope on a daily basis with this sad sage. And, I must admit, the old picture of Ivins playing his keyboard on today's FNP does not apply to the story. At least not to a rational persdon. A better photo would have been the FBI Special Agents taking the computers out of the FCPL libray in their search of IP addresses used on the FCPL computers, as well as of more than one person's records on the computers therein. Maybe a Warren-Type Commission will clear this up in a few years......

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August 03, 2008 @ 08:36 AM: BCianflone

The emails sent out on the FCPL computers when the crime occurred and the emails sent out this past week (that included the sealed Grand Jury indictment part of which were quoted in Frederick County District Court as part of a restraining order), will be revealing. This is when the Patriot Act is pragmatic. And, as we all know, a global word/IP search from No Such Agency on Internet traffic and backed up Internet traffic will pinpoint the required messages. Follow the emails......

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August 03, 2008 @ 08:48 AM: grpcrkplan

"She had to quit her job and is now unable to work, and we have spent our savings on attorneys." When you have to spend money for lawyers to defend your DWI case and other motor vehicle offenses that doesn't help you finances much

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August 03, 2008 @ 08:59 AM: BCianflone

This is sad. I am starting to believe that there are severel minors working at the FNP. In an accompanying article, the FNP is baffled as to why the FBI could seize a public computer without a court order. Apparently, the FNP did not know about the Patriot Act and was unfamiliar with a National Security Letter. I realize that the FNP is ambitiously working on archived photos of Ivins as a keyboarb player and as a juggler, but the fact that the FBI wanted to retrieve specific computers in a perticular part of the public library last week (they knew which ones were used to send out and receive emails, and they were also asking about individuals' PIN numbers), now THAT would have been a better story rather than Ivins' keyboard or juggling skills.

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August 03, 2008 @ 09:09 AM: BCianflone

mjaz62 - Your post is the key to the case being far from closed, Two graduate students who knew Ivins well have said he was a sane and responsible man at that time. It contradicts unequivocally the statement from one mental health provider that he was a homicidal manaic since graduate school. The FNP could now file a FOIA for Ivins' full background check file as he is deceased, but that would entail an adult at FNP to do so, so let us not hold our breath for that file. And the FBI are looking for more than one IP address on public computers. I will not say anything here regarding the hand written note from a mental health provider wherein a part of a sealed indictment is quoted, that was sent electronically in real-time. Hmmm, I thought I said I would not say that......

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August 03, 2008 @ 09:17 AM: shfreeman

you_need_to_listen~~~I agree when you said, "the beginning of this article is horrendous! Journalism 101 teaches you that you must NEVER assume that the reader already knows the key information in the story. So leading off with last names only and jumping into the story this way feels like the first two paragraphs are missing". mjaz62~~~I agree with you also when you say, "Why is everyone willing to accept the allegations of a single woman, who's motivations are unclear?". she claims "..."the respondent has actually attempted to murder several other people, either through poisoning. He is a revenge killer. When he feels that he's been slighted or has had — especially toward women — he plots and actually tries to carry out revenge killings". So my question is who is this woman, what was her relationship, and why is the media reporting her statements as "fact"? She took the liberty of disclosing that (she believes) he was diagnosed as a homicidal sociopath - doesn't that seem like it should be considered privileged information by a mental health professional which she indicates that she is?" My question is...If he was a revenge killer, especially toward women, where is the information and who are the women that he allegedly killed. Seems to me that Miss. Duley has something to gain from this scientist death than we can see. Possibly attention. She kind of reminds me of the Dr. that treated Eve, "Three faces of Eve". Eve had multiple personalities, but when the Dr. finished with her she had twelve, nine of which were created by him. Because his practice wasn't thriving his motive was to capitalize on her, draw attention to himself and write a book...Then came the movie. So what could Miss. Duley's true motives be. Humm. mlaw42~~~ When I first read about the scientist 's suicide the first thing that came to my mind was the suicide of the Fort Detrick Special Operations Division scientist, Frank Olson. Both these men were being treated by the government. I suggest that people do their research with an open and objective mind. Why will this case be closed??? Are we to be subjective, turn our heads and assume that Ivin's was the anthrax mailer....What did he have to gain. Is it likely that the case will be closed to protect the government....Maybe they have more to gain by doing so. To the family...Be strong. You knew your husband/father character better than other's.

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August 03, 2008 @ 09:21 AM: BCianflone

shfreeman - Thank you for saying what you did. Your entreaty to the widow and family to be strong and not to give up the search for truth is a great thought to keep, and it was exactly what was said, once, to Hatfield when he lost his job and his life was in shambles when the FBI said he was the prime person of interest and the media was in a frenzy to outline hime as a terrorist and killer.

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August 03, 2008 @ 10:17 AM: BCianflone

So that we are clear as where the evidence thuse far is originating from, here is the transcript of the statement made by the therapist in District Court: Duley: On July 9, the respondent was in a group, one of our group sessions, and he was extremely agitated, out of control and came into group, and I asked him what was going on. He proceeded to describe to the group a very long and detailed homicidal plan and intention to, that he had bought a bulletproof vest, had obtained a gun, a very detailed plan to kill his co-workers. That because he was about to be indicted on capital murder charges, he was going to go out in a blaze of glory, that he was going to take everybody out with him. That he had been roaming the streets of Frederick trying to pick a fight with somebody so he could stab them. That they weren't going to take him out without a fight. (At this point the voicemail messages are relayed to the District Court.) Duley: The first voice message was sort of a ranting, blaming me for having this done to him. It was sort of just rambling. Same with three minutes later, saying that obviously we no longer have a therapeutic relationship, and how could I do this to him. (Therapist describes a July 12 call.) Duley: That one was rather scary. He very calmly thanked me for ruining his life and opening, allowing the FBI now to be able to prosecute him for the murders and that it was all my fault, and it's going to be my fault that they could now get him. (Pause.) Duley: As far back as the year 2000, the respondent has actually attempted to murder several other people, either through poisoning. (Pause.) He is a revenge killer when he feels that he's been slighted or has had, especially towards women, he plots and actually tries to carry out revenge killing. He has been forensically diagnosed by several top psychiatrists as a sociopathic, homicidal killer. Now, dear FNP readers, what problems do you see with this statetement? The dates definitewly are disconcerting. And why can't the FNP get on this issue like any decent reporter would......

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August 03, 2008 @ 10:19 AM: coffeecat121

I know exactly why they seized the computers..PATRIOT ACT...HELLO

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August 03, 2008 @ 10:25 AM: brutallyfrank

Jean C. Duley -- do your readers a favor and find out if she was an UNLICENSED practitioner. I never see her credentials posted, like MSW, LCSW, LCSW-C, etc? Was she even licensed as a social worker in the state of Maryland? If not, why is she being permitted to be some kind of expert witness for the DOJ? I believe the woman referred to her role and association with Dr. Ivins as a "theripist" (note the mispelling on her affidavit posted on NPR's website. You need to find out if she is a licensed practicing professional. BTW the group referred to in previous articles: Comprehensive Counseling Associates listed only one licensed psychiatrist or psychologist, Dr. Allan Levy. Why isn't he speaking on behalf of his practice? What was his role, if any, in the diagnosis of Dr. Ivins? Please do some more research in this area. Your readers would really like to understand how a seemingly unlicensed Jean C. Duley "theripist" was allowed to make such seemingly outragous claims about Dr. Ivins, but her professional credentials were never verified or challenged.

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August 03, 2008 @ 10:37 AM: BCianflone

This case is too much even for a third-rate work of fiction. it is so one-sided as to be pathetic. Jeffrey Adamovicz, former director of the bacteriology division at USAMRIID, has made a formal statement to the FBI that they have the wrong man with Ivins. The coworkers of Ivins have made a formal statement that anyone could have taken out the vials that Ivins was working on as no scientist was searched when leaving the facility. It seems that the Keystone Cops are the investigators and the Little Rascals are the reporters in this tragedy. A bulletin has just been distributed that there will be possible public hearings from congressional oversight committees, once the case is closed, due to the manner in which it was run and all the leaks to the media. And the true terrorists are rolling on the floor laughing......

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August 03, 2008 @ 10:44 AM: steven09

It is true that he may not have been working alone. In fact, the case against him is circumstantial. But all the evidence does point to this guy. None ever really pointed to Hatfill. They were grasping then. And, to Hatfill's credit, he never broke under the pressure. Ivins case is different, with a new FBI team. Obviously, based on this mental health professional's opinion, and others that saw him crack or make threats, he had psychological issues. Granted, he seemed to be an excellent father and an umpstanding member of the community, but the fact is that he wasn't stable. When this unstable personality set in, I do not know enough about him to say. But just because he managed to hide it doesn't mean it couldn't have been there all along. As for the anthrax itself, the FBI's newest anaylitic techniques pinpointed its origin as a specific container in his office. This was done by matching the specific biological traits of the anthrax in the letters to the anthrax in a specific container in Ivins' office. It is my understanding that very few people had access to it, and he had control over it. That much I will take at the FBI's word, and as such a fact in the case. To the best of my knowledge, he hadn't reported the theft of any anthrax that was under his control, even if he had complained about lax security of such items. That would also seem to point to him personally. That the envelopes came from the 7th Street post office, well, anyone could have bought those I guess. What I really wonder about is if he could have accounted for his time when the envelopes were mailed in New Jersey. Let's face it, whatever you think about this story, the case against Ivins is very much stronger than the one against Hatfill. The anthrax came from Ivins' office. That is a fact and, in my humble opinion, that alone implicates him. If he was not involved, logic would dictate that he would have reported such a dangerous substance as missing. But that being said, yes, my heart goes out to his family, and also to the victims of the anthrax attack. There are no winners in a case like this, except for, as quigley points out, perhaps the lawyers.

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August 03, 2008 @ 10:49 AM: BCianflone

Okay; here are more statements that are not included in the selective process in the media, who wants to see this case closed almost as much as the FBI. While the therapist is quoted ad nauseum as a hero, this statement is not reported in the FNP: "Richard Spertzel, former biodefense scientist and coworker with Ivins at USAMRIID, in a formal statement said that USAMRIID doesn't deal with powdered anthrax, "I do not think there's anyone there who would have the foggiest idea how to do it." This prior statement is supported by another scientist who is a coworker of Ivins, as he acknowledged "it would have been technically possible to manufacture powdered anthrax at Fort Detrick, but unlikely that anyone could have done so without being detected by another. If Ivins did it, we would have seen it."

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:06 AM: steven09

BC....First, you assume that I want to see the case closed. That is not necessarily the case. You are obviously biased here and are trying to stick up for him. The facts are such that the anthrax came from his office. Do you dispute that?

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:07 AM: laurie_ri

I have been away at camp so I'm kind of out of the loop on all of this so maybe someone can fill me in. If he's tried to kill several other women, have those women come forward to confirm that? I know that when priests etc are charged with abuse, several other victims tend to step forward. I was just thinking that if indeed he's tried to kill other women, they would step forward...

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:08 AM: steven09

And, I might add, no one has said that he manufactured anything at Ft. Detrick. Do you know something that we do not? Where was it manufactured BC? Do you know? It came from Ft. Detrick, that is fact and has long been known. Any ideas where it was refined?

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:11 AM: steven09

BC....Are you envious of all the attention that Ivins has gotten? Do you work at Ft. Detrick?

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:16 AM: steven09

BC....I am open minded and am still digesting the facts and opinions regarding the case. Here is a good article, for instance, from this morning's Washington Post. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/02/AR2008080201632.html?hpid=topnews You, however, are in denial that he could have done this. Perhaps you are a family member, or a fellow scientist. But I am neither. And I can tell you that, based on what is known from media reports, that all the evidence, as circumstantial as it is, it points to this guy being the attacker.

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:17 AM: mjaz62

brutally - I had noticed and pointed out several times, that this therIpist's statement appeared to be almost incoherant and possibly hysterical. I ran a state court check on her to see if she has a history of filing peace orders - she doesn't BUT she has a DUI a few years ago, which I found interesting for an "addiction counselor". So, she claims that Dr. Ivin made all these threats in a group - in front of other group members? I hope she can back that up. I hope that she HAS to back that up. And one more thing - if you look at the affadavit she supplied - she did not answer the question of whether she was in a sexual relationship with Ivin. She answered the other questions. Could that be significant? It puts a whole different "spin" on things if their relationship was personal. And, if she was indeed in a purely professional relationship, how could she discuss his alleged "diagnosis" from the psychiatrist? Isn't that covered under doctor/patient privilege? Even if she is not a doctor, the privacy laws extend to her. Anyway, it comes back to one of the basic rules of information gathering - "consider the source". And before you can consider the reliability, you need to know what the background is.

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:28 AM: steven09

laurie....I too am interested in hearing more about that side of the story. This is from the Washington Post article above: "As far back as the year 2000, [Ivins] has actually attempted to murder several other people, [including] through poisoning," she said "He is a revenge killer, when he feels that he's been slighted . . . especially towards women. He plots and actually tries to carry out revenge killings," she told a judge. She described a July 9 group therapy session in which Ivins allegedly talked of mass murder. "He was extremely agitated, out of control," she said. Ivins told the group he had bought a gun, and proceeded to lay out a "long and detailed homicidal plan," she said.

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:28 AM: kapahuluhaole

Here are some facts: The FBI was bound and determined to make sure that this was a "homegrown" crime, not the work of Muslim terrorists. The FBI was so convinced that Hatfil was guilty that they hounded him for years. They ruined his career. Then all of a sudden they fixate on another scientist and hound and harrass him. This Jean Duley is not a professional and her word should not be seen as definitive. The diagnosis of homocidal psychopath is not consistant with Ivins' history. There is something fishy here and this case had BETTER NOT be closed. Reminds me of the Tim McVeigh case. They sure executed him quickly with a lot of unanswered questions (and I'm not a conspiracy theorist type). This is an outrage and I feel for Ivins' family, friends and colleagues.

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:33 AM: superglide_84

before everyone continues to bust on the reporter and complaining about the article not being editd, maybe ,just maybe, the article was edited and thats why it looks like it does.

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:35 AM: Barkia

A LITTLE FYI http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0801081anthrax5.html This "therapist" has difficulty with grammar & spelling...odd?

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:38 AM: steven09

mjaz....True enough. Especially since, I can tell you that I went to this doctor's office (Dr. Alan Levy) to get marriage counceling and one of his councelor's told us that we needed to get a divorce. lol....Imagine going to a marriage councelor in an effort to try and save a marriage and she, the councelor, tells you that you need a divorce! But still, he obviously had some issues for her to be frightened enough to go to court and make these comments. It will be interesting when the FBI releases more information and lays out their entire case against the guy. I agree that the FBI can be awefully wrong, and counselors can be equally as terrible. Still, from what I understand the anthrax came from a vial that he had control over. No one seems to dispute that. So that, in my mind, would narrow the attacker to Ivins or someone who worked closely with him. And since Ivins had control over the anthrax and did not report any missing, that puts even more scrutiny on him personally. Then, on top of that, if he was making homicidal threats......sigh....it's just sad. A sad chapter in American history. If it does turn out to be him, history will judge him to be much like the unibomber...a brillant killer and terrorist.

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:40 AM: mjaz62

superglide - this aticle has been edited since this morning. It was an unbelievably shoddy piece, even for the FNP. If you go down a few posts from the top, one poster copied the entire first two sentences of the article. It has since been corrected.

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:42 AM: steven09

kapa....I find no evidence that the FBI was "bound and determined" to make this a homegrown crime. The anthrax was the Ames strain and came from Ft. Detrick. That's been known for years. Are you claiming that you believe we have Muslim terrorists at Ft. Detrick?

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:43 AM: you_need_to_listen

http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us ...search Jean Carol Duley.

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:45 AM: mjaz62

Steven - I posted this on the other thread about this case. I figured I will copy it here. Think about the second part - what could SHE stand to gain if her intentions were not honorable? quote: "I read this whole scenerio two different ways. The first is obvious - that Ms. Duley was terrified out of her mind, and made the very difficult decision to turn Ivin in. BUT - here's the other possibility - maybe Ms. Duley got a bit carried away - deliberately or unintentionally? How often does such an "important" client come along for a small-town counselor? Use some imagination and you can see that there could be a whole host of possibilities to exploit the situation for one's onwn gain. I would like to know how the other group attendees "read" his anger. It seems to me that she could be putting a heck of a spin on a frustrated man's blusterings. And, if she did, in fact "turn him in", I could understand his reaction being angry, under the circumstances. I think we need to know a LOT more about this therapist, before we accept her allegations as fact."

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:47 AM: shfreeman

BCianflone~~Thank you for your response to my comment

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:50 AM: shfreeman

mjaz62~~~I agree with your last comment.

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:58 AM: steven09

mjaz....My focus has always been on the facts, not opinions. The fact is that the FBI identified the specific anthrax in the attack as coming from a specific vial under Ivins control in his personal lab. Correct? That is and has been my focus. When it is combined with the therapists' opinions.....and/or the fact that he made previous homicidal threats....I will restate my contention that all the evidence we know of points to Ivins. But yes, I have already said that I would like to know more about the threats. I'm not so concerned with the therapist's this or that. He could have threaten a co-worker, a post office official, a woman he knew....just that fact that he was making homicidal threats is enough to give me concern. Doesn't matter to whom those threats were made. The therapist simply reported them. I too would like to see the documentation, but I have no axe to grind with the therapist. The fact is that the anthrax came from his office.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:07 PM: mjaz62

Oh yeah - one other thing - Ms. Duley claims that Ivins got a gun and was going to go out in a "blaze of glory". Hello? He got a gun with the FBI watching his every move? And, that blaze of glory doesn't really fit with an OD of tylenol, does it?

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:14 PM: frederick.county

steven09 You need to put down that Washington Post and get out of the stall. BCianflone is correct in what he said. Do you know that he used to work for ATF and gets first hand info from a lot of S/As? Of course not. Also, one S/A said that they are under tremendous pressure to close this case during this adminstration. So, before you knock people that put factual data herein, especially if the FNP does not have it, you need to sit down in a well-lit office and learn the facts from others. You definitely want to see Ivins as the culprit, for some strange reason. Even your beloved Washington Post is now basckpedalling on its initial belief that he is THE ONE. Now you can go back in the stall. Remember, we all want to see the culprit apprehended, and justice served in the process. These two items go hand in hand. If one of them is eliminated, then the terrorists win.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:16 PM: steven09

I was wondering a bit about that too mjaz. I hope he didn't leave a surprise package or something like that lying around town.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:18 PM: mjaz62

Steven, that's exactly my point! If Ivins was the Anthrax guy, then lets hear about it. Let's see the evidence that proves that ONLY Ivins could have done it. But all we are hearing now is about this woman who has all kinds of horrid things to say about him, and is being quoted as if she is unreproachable. Maybe she is completely upfront and correct. But for God's sake - it is totally unfair to destroy Ivins' reputation without knowing how reliable this woman is. There are too many questions and very few answers, but that's not stopping the media from printing the most d_mning things they can about the man. You know, Ivins knew what this woman said about him - if he guessed that this would be the media reaction, it's almost understandable that he might take his own life. ESPECIALLY if he was innocent!

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:18 PM: frederick.county

Ivins having obtained a weapon from any FFL dealer to "go out in a blaze of glory" does not correspond to the facts in the case. Ivins was under total 24-hour surveillance for the past 12 months. Also, all his telephone calls and emails were monitored during the past 12 months. Again, some individuals are quoting a therapist who is currently under investigation for violating Federal laws. The therapist also switched her story from gun to knife, but that is also why she is now being investigated.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:27 PM: steven09

fredcnty....First off, I'm not knocking BC, like the frederickman did yesterday. I agree with some of what he posted. Nor did I ever contend that he was the "one." Yes, we all want to see the culprit caught, or at least know who did it. So I'm not certain why you are attacking me personally, or the Washington Post either. Personal attacks are simply a ploy that debaters use when they are desperate to try and prove their point. And I will further state that I was not knocking BC's "facts." However, he continually wants to focus on the therapist in the case and that holds very little interest to me. Let me ask you this fredcounty, do you dispute that the anthrax came from Ivins' container in Ivins' office? That is the point that I would like to drive home. Others seem just to want to talk about the therapist. And, I will also say that I am happy that BC worked for the ATF I guess. Were they involved in this case too? If so, let's hear from the ATF. Otherwise, he doesn't seem to be a personal expert on this particular case and I'll stick to my guns until facts prove otherwise, and BC is welcome to his opinion as well. Freedom of speech and all that. Let me ask you another question BC. What exactly is your point other than to try and trash me and stick up for your ATF friend? Do you have some real facts or intelligent opinions to add?

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:29 PM: mjaz62

Something else just struck me.. about the "blaze of glory" thing. Why would a man who had a supposed history of poisoning powerful men, and "mostly women" suddenly switch to a gun/knife? That makes no sense. Poisoners are a totally different breed of murderer than the violent offenders. Something is definately OFF with that story.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:29 PM: frederick.county

Steven09, I just read your post where you write that "history will judge Ivins to be much like the unibomber." While this is wild speculation and has no basis in any facts, the motive behind your statement may reveal more about your intent than you may have wanted to be revealed. Keep writing; make sure you say some real wild stuff here, and ensure that no facts are behind it.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:32 PM: steven09

fredcounty....I'll also point out that big brother has long been listening in to all of us....all the time. It's a little known fact....but hey, if you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't really bother anybody, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:33 PM: mjaz62

Sorry Steven, I am one who keeps focusing on the therapist, mainly because all of the salicious soundbites are coming from her direction. Until there are more facts in this case, that's all we really have - and I for one, don't like to see someone's reputation ruined by an essentially anonymous accuser.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:34 PM: shfreeman

In this story Duley's boyfriend states, "Someone broke into her car Friday night, McFadden said, though no police report was filed. "Nothing was taken," he said, "but everything was jumbled up." He also say's, ""Jean is the kind of person who believes her life is insignificant in comparison with the kind of damage Dr. Ivins is capable of," he said. "She sacrificed all this stuff because she wanted to do the right thing. She'll soon reveal what many wouldn't because they didn't want to be involved with it." My question is...If someone broke into Duley's car why was no report filed. Also, why would she believe that her life is insignificant in comparison with the kind of damage Dr. Ivans is capable of??? Okay, he was a top scientist and knew alot. Is she a therapist in training??? I guess the unbalance in knowledge could be intimidating. What will she reveal...Anything factual that can be proven??? Story states that Ivins shared two anthrax-related patents with other scientists. The first, filed in November 1994, was for a system to produce a protective antigen against bacillus anthracis. The second, filed in March 2000, was for making an anthrax vaccine. My comment...If Ivins real-l-l-ly wanted to kill someone using anthrax don't you think that he would have done it long before 2001 and would he have to have mailed it out when he could have done it locally??? Either way, locally or mailed out it would have lead to Ft. Detrick. I think that he was much smarter than that. He had nothing to gain. Has anyone considered that it could have been someone testing their own theories??? Maryland's chief medical examiner, Dr. David Fowler, confirmed Saturday that the cause of Ivins' death was found to be an overdose of acetaminophen, the active drug in Tylenol; and that it was ruled a suicide based on information from police and doctors, according to the AP. In another article today titled, " Therapist: anthrax suspect tried to poison people". She said that on July 9, Ivins showed up for a group session "extremely agitated, out of control." She said that when she asked him what was wrong, he said he had obtained a gun and described to the group "a very long and detailed homicidal plan" to kill his co-workers. Duley said she called Ivins' two lawyers and the city police, who went to Ivins' workplace and had him committed to Frederick Memorial Hospital for a psychiatric evaluation. She said Ivins was transferred the next day to a high-security, psychiatric treatment center and placed on "homicidal and suicide watch." My comment...If he was in a high-security psychiatric treatment center and placed on homicidial and suicide watch where would he get or who would give him enough Tylenol to overdose??? Has anyone considered that he could have been forced to take them??? Has anyone considered that he could have taken his own life at home or at work using anthrax??? Also, in this same story it says, "Duley testified that Ivins had tried to poison people even before the 2001 attacks. "As far back as the year 2000, the respondent has actually attempted to murder several other people, either through poisoning ... He is a revenge killer. When he feels that he's been slighted or has had -- especially toward women -- he plots and actually tries to carry out revenge killings," Duley said. My comment...Seems to me that with his background if he tried to murder and poison people he would have been successful. She added that Ivins "has been forensically diagnosed by several top psychiatrists as a sociopathic, homicidal killer. I have that in evidence. And through my working with him, I also believe that to be very true." My comment~~~Who are these TOP psychiatrists that forensically disgnosed him as a sociopathic, homicidal killer and when did they diagnose him??? Duley told the court that she had known Ivins for six months and had been meeting with him for group sessions weekly and for individual counseling every other week. My comment...If she has only known him for 6 MONTHS what kind of assessement did she do on him. Seems to me that because Dr Ivin's has been who he is for such a long time and most likely has experienced and seen alot it would have taken longer than 6 MONTHS for her to really get to know him. Guess she used the observational check off system. Also, if Dr. Levy is the person in charge why was Miss. Duley Dr. Ivin's therapist. Seems to me that because of Dr. Ivin's profile Dr. Levy who would have more extensive knowledge should have been his therapist Duley said Ivins' scheduled release from the hospital on the day of the hearing prompted her to seek the protective order. Duley said that on July 11, Ivins left her two ranting voice messages, blaming her for his commitment. On July 12, he left another "rather scary" voice message from a hospital in which "he very calmly thanked me for ruining his life and opening -- allowing the FBI to now be able to prosecute him for the murders, and that it was all my fault and it's going to be my fault that they can now get him." My comment... Duley said she gave the answering-machine tapes to the FBI. My comment... If he's in a hospital on "homicidal and suicide watch" wouldn't someone have been with him while he was calling Miss. Duley on the phone and if someone was with him would they have let him stay on the phone long enough to threaten her.......Maybe the phone calls were a hoax set up by Miss. Duley. Is it possible that she's her own victim for glorification.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:34 PM: steven09

frederickcounty....You took my statement out of context. Conveniently you left out the way it started....."If he did it." Way to go though.....your bias is showing. ;-)

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:37 PM: frederick.county

Steven - You're going off on a tangent. Echelon simply gives No Such Agency global communications gathering capability, and that has been in effect for a long time. This case has the added tools of the (amended) Patriot Act and signed National Security Letters. And, incidentally, there are three locations in the US that could conceivably make the type of powdered anthrax used in the case, and DOJ has stated that the vial mentioned in the indictment did not have any evidence on it pointing it to any single individual. We need to stick to the facts here.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:37 PM: steven09

mjaz.....I agree. That's why I haven't focused on the therapist and rather have been focusing on where the anthrax came from, Ivins' container in Ivins' office. That is a fact. No one has disputed that FBI finding yet. So I agree with you and don't understand why anyone would focus on the therapist. I see her comments as important, if in fact Ivins said those things. But not nearly so important as the FBI tracing the anthrax to a container in his possession.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:40 PM: steven09

The point is, frederick county, that if he had nothing to hide why would he be so worried? Hatfill wasn't. Nor would I be. Would you? I don't like being harrassed by the government either, but if I had nothing to hide I would be a willing and helpful participant in any investigation, especially one so serious as this. And please stop taking my comments out of context. It was a pretty low blow on your part. I have never said this guy did it. I merely am contending that the evidence points to the notion that he did. Others seem to be in denial of this.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:43 PM: frederick.county

shfreeman - Good job! You are doing what the FNP gerbils and some other reporters should be doing. Asking hard questions and then hitting the pavement to get to the bottom of them, now THAT is what should be done. The therapist is now being investigated, but the end result is unknown. For now. There is even internal dissension within the DOJ and FBI on the developmrents in this multi-pronged case. Especially since two investigators have said that Ivins could not have done the crime. Some DOJ staff rightly fear their jobs may suffer if indictments are sent out when the eventual hearings are carried out. After the election, of course......

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:47 PM: pmccraken68

Steven09-- First of all, Anthrax is not kept in an office. It is kept in a containment laboratory that many people had access to. The Ames strain of B. anthracis was isolated in Ames, Iowa (hence the name) and not only USAMRIID has it. Dried spores are not used for experiments because they are too hard to manage. The use of dried anthrax spores went out with the offensive program in the late 60's. It's totally possible this stuff has been "floating around" since then. And just because someone comes to Ivins' defense does not make them biased. In fact, it is the people who knew him best (i.e. his wife, his children, his co-workers, etc) who know that he is just not capable of doing this stuff. If he were a homocidal sociopath dating back to graduate school, that would have come out long ago and he never would have been able to set foot inside USAMRIID, much less into a containment lab. Hatfill brought a lot of the attention on himself by lying on his resume and making himself out to be something that he wasn't. That is the type of person who does this sort of stuff. Not the American-Cross-working, church-piano-playing, ring-juggling, overalls-wearing, respected scientist who just offed himself with pain killers because he has been pressured by the DoJ for the past 7 years. He probably started "showing signs of strain" after Hatfill was exonerated because he knew that he would have to put up with more FBI crap while they tried to find a new person to blame for all this.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:49 PM: frederick.county

Steven09 - You need to read what was done to Hatfill during the first year of the investigation of that poor man. He was close to ending up like Ivins, and losing it. But some friends rallied to Hatfills support in a big way. Two other Fort Detrick scientists (colleagues of Ivins) are right now extremely worried about FBI harassment. So, in your mind, they too must be guilty of some crime. You and others need to back off and stick to the very few facts in this case. In this country, one is innocent of a crime until proved guily beyond a reason of a doubt and judged by a court not a mob which is the way Ivins has been tried and convicted herein.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:50 PM: pmccraken68

ANd another thing--if were sending this stuff out to try to test his vaccine, wouldn't he need to send it to people who were vaccinated?? He would know that National Enquirer Guy in Florida wouldn't have been vaccinated. He would know that postal workers wouldn't have been vaccinated. Perhaps the senators were vaccinated, but I doubt his aides were....it makes no sense.

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August 03, 2008 @ 12:56 PM: frederick.county

pmccraken68 - Yours is one of the many questions that an investigative reporter should ask, and then hit the streets. And you are getting warmer with this point......

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August 03, 2008 @ 01:08 PM: steven09

The FBI has specifically pinpointed the anthrax as coming from a specific vial in the possession of Ivins. That is my understanding. I will let the FBI speak for itself. Here....I don't have time to go through all of these articles.....it's to nice out. But here are articles on the genomic "fingerprints" that link him to the anthrax. Have fun.

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August 03, 2008 @ 01:09 PM: steven09

Oooops....here's the link. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=anthrax+Ivins+genomic+fingerprint

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August 03, 2008 @ 01:12 PM: frederick.county

steven09 - You are quoting the old Washington Post article again. Do you work for the Post? Or did Ivins jump in front of you at the Giant's cash register line once and you'be been stewing since? We're going to baptize you "Shallow Throat" the distant second cousin to Deep throat......

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August 03, 2008 @ 01:13 PM: steven09

BTW....frederickcounty....it's long been known that, while there are other facilities in the country that could manufacture anthrax, this specific "ames" strain was narrowed down to ft. detrick long ago. now they have narrowed that further to dr. ivins. no matter how many people are in denial....the anthrax, according to the fbi, came through dr. ivins personal office. read the articles if you haven't already. and if you have, stop spreading false information. just taking my comment out-of-context blew any objectivity and/or credibility you had.

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August 03, 2008 @ 01:15 PM: steven09

pmcracken....read the articles. yes, i used the term office instead of lab. great. ya got me there. geez people. i'm not making this stuff up. read it for yourself cracken. the link is above. why are so many people in denial of the facts????

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August 03, 2008 @ 01:17 PM: frederick.county

steven09 - What hidden motive do you have to support the therapist curently under investigation? You are adamant in telling everyone that Ivins is a killer. Why? You noted in one of your previous posts that you were under the care of the same psychiatrist that Ivins was under. Other than being mentally unbalanced, do you have anything else that the public should know?

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August 03, 2008 @ 01:18 PM: steven09

fred county....i agee. poor steven hatfill. we agree on that. but the case against dr. ivins is much, much stronger. in fact, they didn't even have much on hatfill at all. they were just grasping. yet the anthrax came through dr. ivins personal "lab." stand up for him all you like. i'm just saying that the evidence so far is against you. i'm tired of this for now. have a nice day!

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August 03, 2008 @ 01:22 PM: frederick.county

steven09 - Dang! You are really what Mark Twain once called a very distant cousin to truth. There was no "personal" or secret lab at Fort Detrick that only Ivins knew about. Hey, wait, are there any secret caves in the back that Ivins used in his disguise? Boy, you are one nutty dude. On the verge of being funny, but nutty all the same.

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August 03, 2008 @ 01:30 PM: pmccraken68

Ummm, no, Steve09, the article from the NY Times (found through the link you provided) said that it was traced to a handful of vials in a specific lab, not Ivins' personal lab. Ivins had no personal lab--many people had access to the same areas he did. And as the FNP stated in their expose Beyond the Breach or whatever it was called, there were vials unaccounted for...never mind the possibility that someone could have taken spores out of those "specific vials" and put them in another vial and taken them out of the institute without anyone's knowledge, to process at another location. Ya see, not all cut and dried....lotta grey here.... But you enjoy the sunshine!

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August 03, 2008 @ 02:08 PM: mjaz62

this quote, from the NYTimes seemed rather interesting: "Scientists familiar with germ warfare said there was no evidence that Dr. Ivins, though a vaccine expert with easy access to the most dangerous forms of anthrax, had the skills to turn the pathogen into an inhalable powder. (QUOTE) “I don’t think a vaccine specialist could do it,” said Dr. Alan P. Zelicoff, a physician who aided the F.B.I. investigation when he worked at the Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque. “This is aerosol physics, not biology,” Dr. Zelicoff added. “There are very few people who have their feet in both camps.” Mr. Ezzell said Dr. Ivins had worked on many projects involving anthrax spores and the toxin they produce, including experiments in which animals were exposed to anthrax to test vaccines. But he said the experiments, to his knowledge, involved anthrax spores in liquid and not in the dry powder form used in the letter attacks." (END QUOTE) Also from NYT - Ivins took (and presumably passed) a lie detector test. Curiouser and curiouser.

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August 03, 2008 @ 02:10 PM: mjaz62

oops - put my quote indicator in the wrong place. my bad!

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August 03, 2008 @ 02:47 PM: pmccraken68

Over the course of the entire investigation, I'm sure he took SEVERAL polygraphs.... There were techs who had to take polygraphs who didn't even work with Anthrax, but had access to labs that contained it, so I'm sure that, having access to those "specific vials", Bruce had to take several tests.... If he were so guilty that he was exhibiting signs of stress, he wouldn't have been able to pass them.

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August 03, 2008 @ 03:18 PM: bkeepr

I'm not at all convinced of Dr. Ivins' guilt. I looked up Ms. Duley's own criminal record, and she hasn't been what I'd call a stellar citizen. Yet most other folks who knew Dr. Ivins are shocked, saying he was a truly wonderful guy. His neighbors say the FBI was staking out his home (apparently based on Ms. Duley's testimony), harrassing him, and knowing what Mr. Hatfield went through, who is to say he didn't take his own life to avoid all that. It all certainly makes me question the situation...appears the press has judged Ivins guilty until proven innocent, but he's no longer around to defend himself. Finally, the press mob at the Ivins' house was disgusting! Like vultures after carrion, but without the social benefit that vultures provide.

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August 03, 2008 @ 03:39 PM: mjaz62

I am also not convinced of Dr. Ivins guilt. Maybe I will be when there is some evidence, but I read that unnamed sources at the Justice Department said that at BEST there is only circumstantial evidence. Our government should NOT be in the business of harassing and driving our citizens to almost insanity over "circumstantial evidence". What they did to Hatfill was shameful, and it seems like they tried the same tactics with Ivins. If he had a DELIBERATE hand in killing those 5 people, then he definitely needed to be punished, but only if it was provable. Compare the number of lives that he "might...possibly...coulda" harmed, to the number of lives that we KNOW he saved (and will save in the future), and I think that most people would say that he deserved the benefit of the doubt, to be treated respectfully, and not hounded like a wounded animal.

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August 03, 2008 @ 04:04 PM: steven09

Nope, never knew or met Ivins. Not that I remember. Although he did go to my church. Nor did I call him a killer. But I did say the evidence points to him. I'm waiting till the FBI release their full report before making up my mind. Nor am I supporting the therapist. If you read above, quite the opposite. As for being biased, if I were a friend or family, I would be. I'm not. I have to think that some of the posters here are because they are trying to establish their own non-factual based theories. Throwing insults at me for my factually held opinions will not change the facts. Yes, ooops, I was using the word office rather than lab. Doesn't change the facts that the FBI traced the anthrax to a vial in his lab. Thank God for the First Amendment. Smiles to all. :-)

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August 03, 2008 @ 04:09 PM: steven09

I will further add that it sounds like he was an excellent father and a very good neighbor. But based on what we have heard from his therapist she must have felt personally threatened and it also sounds like he had a "long history" (presses words, not mine) of snapping. Either way, he's gone now. I feel a lot of sympathy for his family, and the victims of this crime. Again, very nice to hear he was a great father and neighbor, but I am unconvinced by any argument made here as to his innocence. Although I am similarly waiting to hear the FBI evidence before declaring him a killer.....unlike the vast majority on the Washington Post blog who have already convicted the guy. Have a nice day. :-)

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August 03, 2008 @ 04:19 PM: aruba95

I'm really surprised at the way the national media (and possibly even the FBI?) has determined that Ivins' suicide means he was guilty. Isn't it possible that he was suicidal for other reasons? I can't believe this case would be closed anytime soon. It doesn't seem right. FNP-- you are doing a good job covering this case. For all the FNP bashers out there, just remember, the FNP is going up against major national media with far more resources than the FNP has. I think FNP is holding its own.

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August 03, 2008 @ 04:24 PM: steven09

mjaz....Duh! This has been said all along. The case against him is circumstantial. But it is a strong circumstaintial case. The anthrax was traced to a container that he was in charge of. The government case narrows the assasain to either Ivins, or one of his close associates that had access to his office....er...."lab." Nor did he report any anthrax under his control as being missing. (I'm assuming that the people at Ft. Detrick generally look after the stuff.) Plus, he has a history of homicidal threats....not just to his therapist but to others too. Those are facts, right? Circumstantial as the facts are, they sure seem to point to one person....or at most a very few. If it turns out to be proven that it is not Ivins, I will also be the first to step to the plate and state that. :-) So far, the evidence supports the case that it was him, despite his church going, Red Cross volunteering (btw, he showed up when they were draining the lake trying to prove Hatfill did this and the FBI had to shoooo him away. I find it very disrespectful that a person posting here would blame this on the "type" of person that Hatfill was and ignor the fact that Ivins has a much worse psychological profile. Hatfill, as far as I know, never threatened violence.) FNP....Please help us with a brief anaylsis of how the FBI traced this to a vial in Ivins' lab. It's all in the link above, but you have yet to print it in your newspaper. Off again to get some work done. :-)

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August 03, 2008 @ 04:37 PM: you_need_to_listen

aruba95-- The national media may have more resources, but this a story that is being followed on a national level...and FNP allowed a reporter who OBVIOUSLY has very limited skills in the field of journalism to write the article. Any high school journalism student could have thrown together a more detailed and readable article. I'm not an FNP hater...I'm just not a big fan of poorly written articles that offer nothing but confusion and the same statements spun in several different ways. You don't need to resources to be interesting.

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August 03, 2008 @ 04:40 PM: Barkia

Has anyone reviewed the 7 pages of the peace order? Take notice of the misspellings in her own handwriting. Does anyone else find this highly odd? http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0801081anthrax5.html

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August 03, 2008 @ 05:06 PM: aruba95

You-need-to-listen-- first of all, Comfort Dorn is listed as "assistant city editor," meaning that he or she does have some years of journalism experience. Second, it's most likely that Comfort Dorn compiled this article from numerous staff reports, as indicated by the bylines at the end of the article. It sounds to me as if FNP has several reporters on the story, and Comfort Dorn is compiling the information into an article. I strongly disagree that a high school journalism student could have written this article. This is a tough story to cover, with numerous angles to follow. These reporters don't have the skills and experience of their counterparts in the national media, but I would submit they are doing a pretty good job anyway.

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August 03, 2008 @ 05:24 PM: msmith21703

Jean Duley seems like somewhat of less than model citizen - check out her criminal history on the maryland court case web site. Drunk driving, battery charges, controlled substance possession. Bruce Ivins has no criminal history - not even a speeding ticket. Comprehensive Counseling (where Jean Duley was employed) is a joke. I know someone who was a patient of Dr. Levy's - saw him once a month for years and Dr. Levy called him "young man" - couldn't remember his name and too lazy to look through his chart. Dr. Levy is known in the medical community to diagnose everyone as ADD/ADHD and prescribe stimulants (addicting)as a treatment. I feel for the Ivins family - regardless of whether Dr. Ivins was guilty or innocent I feel for his wife and children.

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August 03, 2008 @ 05:28 PM: mjaz62

aruba, you must not have seen the original copy of this article this morning. It was a disgrace. Really. The story has been edited, but it was beyond shameful. Read the third post on this message board - the poster copied the first two sentences of the article. I was almost embarassed thinking that there could be readers from all over the country seeing that awful writing and forming opinions about Frederick by that. If Mr./Ms. is actually the assistant editor, then FNP is in a heck of a lot of trouble.

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August 03, 2008 @ 06:09 PM: Miss_Cleo

"Dr." Levy is a QUACK! My parents went to him and he prescribed all sort of medications. He treated my mother as though she was not even there. My Dad, of course liked him because my Dad wanted the pills...and Levy was VERY accommodating in that respect. After my Dad passed away it became thoroughly evident that Levy was a professional drug dealer. He gave my Dad excessive prescriptions that my mother never knew about.

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August 03, 2008 @ 06:14 PM: Miss_Cleo

AND he would bring his KID to therapy...while my Dad was in session and the kid screamed, while sitting under a desk/table the entire time.

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August 03, 2008 @ 06:30 PM: forsurewrong

Duley, this reported social worker was convicted of Drunk driving in April of this YEAR (see Below) Defendant Name:DULEY, JEAN CAROL Code:21795 Race:WHITE,CAUCASIAN,ASIATIC INDIAN,ARAB Charge Information Charge: Article:TASec:21Sub-Sec:902Para:A2Code: Description: (DRIVING ATTEMPTING TO DRIVE) VEHICLE WHILE UNDER THE INFLUENCE PER SE Location Stopped: ALL SAINTS ST & MARKET ST Contributed to Accident?: NO ------------------------ Disposition Information Plea: GUILTY Disposition: GUILTY Disposition Date: 04/24/2008 Contributed To Accident: NO Personal Injury?: NO Sentence Date: 04/24/2008 Sentence Time: Yrs:02Mos:00Days:000 Suspended Time: Yrs:01Mos:09Days:000 Sentence Starts: 04/17/2008 Probation Type: SUPERVISED Costs: http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=000000FB36662&loc=38&detailLoc=DSTRAF She had another on in 2006 though they only found her guilty of a lesser charge. I also checked the Maryland Board of Professional Counselors website and discovered she is only an entry level counselor (below) Full Name JEAN C. DULEY License Number SC1343 Status Active License Expiration Date 1/31/2010 Original Lic Date 11/3/2004 https://mdbnc.dhmh.md.gov/pctVerification/Details.aspx?ID=7080 What in the world was she doing atempting to treat anybody!!! I wonder if her licensing board is aware of her arrest and conviction. There is something seriously wrong here!!

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August 03, 2008 @ 06:53 PM: justa.nothergal

To Ms. Dorn's defense, the article that appeared in the print edition had the first paragraph that was originally missing from the online edition. It appears to be more of an issue of the online edition did not get copied and pasted entirely from the printed copy. So I'm guessing it's not that the online edition was later 'edited' - it's that it was corrected to include the story as it appeared in the print edition.

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August 03, 2008 @ 07:46 PM: joantreese

Dr. Ivins can no longer defend his reputation. Let him rest in peace and may his family find peace and comfort at this time.

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August 03, 2008 @ 07:59 PM: you_need_to_listen

aruba95-- Based on your own statements (and fairly obvious based on the article), Comfort Dorn compiled the information...she didn't investigate anything...so yes, I think a high school student could compile information investigated by others...they do it all the time. I understand your defense of the FNP, but the fact remains that regardless of her title at FNP, Comfort Dorn should not be writing for the paper...she's not very good at it. If there are angles to follow, then they should have been followed...this article is regurgitated bits of other peoples work that would NEVER stand as true reporting. The FNP has taken an opportunity to showcase the best journalistic skills they had to offer, and instead...we got this. Frederick is experiencing situations previously seen mostly in larger cities...it would be nice to see some good investigative journalism LOCALLY to cover these events.

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August 03, 2008 @ 08:04 PM: shfreeman

forsurewrong~~~Thank you for you posting. I had my suspicions about Miss. Duley being qualified to diagnose anyone. Specifically since she said that she had only known Ivins' for 6 months. With his extensive life experiences it would have taken more than 6 months to accurately diagnose the condition, do a differential diagnosis ie: a method of diagnosis that involves determining which of a variety of possible conditions is the probable cause of an individual’s symptoms then do a diagnosis analysis of the cause or nature of the condition, situation or problem.

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August 03, 2008 @ 08:11 PM: aruba95

FNP interviewed Duley's fiance, and interviewed the mayor of Frederick. To bolster the story, FNP used AP content-- a practice that is EXCEEDINGLY common at all newspapers, large and small. I just think you're being overly harsh in your criticism of this article. Believe me, I have criticized FNP mightily in the past, but this article today is a follow-up that ties up some loose ends from the week's events. Now, if FNP just lets this story fade away, and never produces an in-depth, more investigative piece, that will be worth strong criticism indeed.

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August 03, 2008 @ 08:25 PM: forsurewrong

I just don't understand why if he (Ivins) was as bad off as Duley said he that he was not removed from her case load. She was only a Certified Supervised Counselor Alcohol and Drug. Where was her supervision? Let alone how could she even have a case load if she was convicted of driving under the influce in April of this Year and is on supervised probation. Something is very wrong here, even if Ivins did exactly what they are saying he did, there is something wrong with Duley being involved with this case at all. I hope the Board of COunselors is looking into her and this Dr. Levi person as I think he failed to supervise Duley correctly.

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August 03, 2008 @ 08:54 PM: frederick.county

If Ivins can account for his time while one anthrax letter was mailed from New Jersey, then what does one do to resolve it? Simple: Case closed. We got the guy that committed suicide. Next case?

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August 03, 2008 @ 09:56 PM: ssaws

In 1994 Dr. Ivans and 5 other USAMRIID employees were honored by the Baltimore Federal Executive Board, Excellence in Federal Career Program, for performing successful CPR on an employee who suffered cardiac arrest in a restroom. At the time Dr Ivis was sought out due to his training and interest in offering aid to others in emegency situation. To me this seems to be an attribute that would be in direct conflict with a diagnosis of "homicidal maniac".

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August 03, 2008 @ 10:36 PM: lynn

I would not be surprised if this so call social worker/therapist is in bed with the authorities, from all accounts in the media. After listening to her testimony this morning online, there were way too many 'ummms' and 'ands' and an immediate statement about the FBI. Then I see that her boyfriend admits to her having discussions with the FBI~perhaps to iron out the game plan? Or worse, is the CIA behind this? Or Homeland Security? No doubt this woman will be shunned in our community for her actions, and professional conduct. If she was relying on other government doctor’s assessments of the doctor at Ft. Detrick...well, it just wreaks of the Dr. Olsen case. Psychiatrists in Frederick seem to be easily bought for proceedings. In Maryland for that matter. Having been on this planet for a while, I have witnessed this phenomenon before. I have worked in the legal system. Is Ms. Duley above reproach? Let's hope so. She will have her day in Court, hopefully. Most of all, I sincerely hope that the American People will get to the truth of the entire matter. Remember folks, this case is of international significance to our country, and has to be handled with kit gloves. We do all have to be UNITED behind anything that our leader does. However, we owe it to this man's family to clear his name, if he is, in fact being used in an out of control witch hunt, conducted without direct authority by our National leader. My personal gut feeling is that the good Doctor is being used as a scape goat. This former therapist better have the other patients testify to back up her story. I hope that the patients do have the gumption to come forth. Oh, how convenient...they are mentally ill, so their testimony might not wash! Also, I am curious as to hear more about the explanation concerning the allegations about the Ft. Detrick doctor, e.g. if this doctor had tried to attempt to murder others, then why is this the first we have learned of it? Was he charged previously? Hopefully, the truth of the entire matter will come to the forefront. My heart goes out to the family of this man! We need to be totally respectful of their needs at this point in time. His work has been of great significance to our country. However, as American's, we need the truth and true justice. The government should think long and hard before closing this one. Further, we have a right to all the details of this historically significant event that happened seven years ago. At the time, I knew a television reporter with a major broadcasting company, who was in the good Senator's office, then having to take Cipro to counter-act the possible exposure. So on a personal and a national level, I would really like to know what truly transpired. I am finding it hard to believe this version. We need to know the real truth behind those incidences seven years ago. I hope that we will. P.S. Comfort Dorn, your Girl Scout Leader would be proud of you. Let the comments slide.

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:35 PM: ssaws

Pardon me for posting back to back comments. I am new to this and after reading many of the comments I have some questions that I would like to see answered. If all that has been said about Dr. Ivins mental state is true, what happened to our medical and criminal justice system? Why wouldn't someone who has been diagnosed as "homicidal" by several "top psychiatrists" in the country be living in a secure mental facility until cured. According to the news Dr Ivins voluntarily signed himself into a psychiatric facility last month and was released after a short period of time. Did the psychiatrists at the facility disagree with the top psychiatrists who had previously diagnosed him. I guess at the same time I can wonder why they didn't pick up on his suicidal ideation or had it just has not manifested itself yet. Or maybe the FBI had not yet told him that they were going to arrest him within the next week and charge him with capital murder and asking were going to ask for the death penalty. A charge that would probably not allow bail. If the allegations of attempted poisonings and planned acts of homicidal revenge are true why are there no record of any criminal charges to back them up mentioned anywhere? I assume that a psychiatrist, licensed psychologist, or social worker would have a legal responsibility to report knowledge of such actions or thoughts to prevent injury or harm to the individuals the thoughts are aimed at. It is obvious that such a report can be made if such action is allegedly aimed at a therapist. I believe as a minimum there would have been a legal requirement for at least a commitment hearing with a judge if voluntary commitment was not agreed to. And then my final question would be, even if true, does any of this have any bearing on what occurred almost six years ago. All the allegations brought forward so far appear to be actions dealing with unacceptable responses to situations that occur in life with revenge as the goal. I am not clear how that would tie into the psychology of mailing out anthrax spores knowing that the spores could cause harm to unknown persons who have done nothing to cause you to seek revenge. And from my knowledge of Dr Ivins position I believe he had absolutely nothing to gain by infecting anyone with Anthrax.

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August 03, 2008 @ 11:44 PM: moses.selm

If the therapists accounts were accurate regarding his agitated state and threats during group therapy, someone surely would corroborate this. Funny, everything I read about him reminds me of the BTK. Involved in the community, church but apparently had a much darker side. Why is he and his brother estranged? His estranged brother seemed to think it was in the realm of possibility. It will be interesting to see what happens. I do not believe in the conspirator theories that are so ridiculously thrown out by the uneducated.

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August 04, 2008 @ 12:31 AM: mjaz62

I don't think anyone has come up with any conspiracy theories yet. I think that there are a LOT of unanswered questions and a lot of dots that people are trying to connect that don't make sense. I think it's pretty clear that most people posting here want THE TRUTH, whether Ivins was a serial killer, or whether he was an innocent guy who was pushed up against the wall, and couldn't take it. This may be a national issue, but ultimately, for us it's a local issue, and we want real answers - not some glossed over propaganda.

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