Frederick's Mount Olivet Cemetery will focus on its core responsibility of helping families in their time of grief after vandals damaged three memorials at the cemetery, cemetery officials said Tuesday.

In the latest incident of racially-based vandalism in the city, Frederick police are looking for the people responsible for destroying a statue at Mount Olivet dedicated to Confederate soldiers and damaging two other monuments.

Officers responded to the cemetery on South Market Street in Frederick around 8:30 a.m. Tuesday and found three statues or monuments defaced, with one statue completely destroyed, said Lt. Andrew Alcorn of the Frederick Police Department.

The messages of the vandalism indicated support for the Black Lives Matter movement.

Mount Olivet Damage

Three historic monuments in Mount Olivet Cemetery on South Market Street were defaced overnight. 

The destroyed statue of a Confederate sentry was erected in 1880 by the Ladies Monumental Association of Frederick County.

Cemetery superintendent Ronald Pearcey said the life-sized statue is likely not able to be repaired.

Despite several recent suggestions on social media and elsewhere, it was not a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee, said Chris Haugh, community relations and historic preservation manager for the cemetery.

It sits over a mass grave for 408 unknown Confederate soldiers who died on July 9, 1864 at the nearby Battle of Monocacy.

The graves of 311 other Confederates lay nearby along the cemetery's “Confederate Row.”

The cemetery originally had even more Union soldiers, but most of them were subsequently moved to the federal cemetery in Sharpsburg, Haugh said.

The incident comes days after graffiti and stickers supporting white supremacy were found in Baker Park and around the downtown area, and as a national debate rages over the legacies of Confederate leaders and prominent historical figures who owned slaves.

Mount Olivet Damage

Three historic monuments in Mount Olivet Cemetery on South Market Street were defaced overnight. 

A statement from the cemetery's board Tuesday said it would remain focused on its traditional mission.

“Mount Olivet Cemetery is many things to many people but above all it is a working cemetery dedicated to providing care and services for families in need having lost a loved on. Our staff continues to work through the current COVID-19 pandemic and is doing their best to maintain and care for the grounds containing 40,000+ gravesites,” the statement said.

Last week, the cemetery took down a Confederate flag that had flown near the Confederate memorial.

With a circle of stars, two red stripes and a white stripe, it was not the more familiar Confederate battle flag, but a different one.

With all the different events happening around the country, “We thought that right now this is a step we should take,” Haugh said.

Mount Olivet is the resting place of soldiers from every conflict the United States has ever been involved in, he said.

But he believes Tuesday's vandalism was driven by larger national events. 

“The people that did this don't want a history lesson,” he said.

News-Post staff photographer Bill Green contributed to this report. 

Follow Ryan Marshall on Twitter: @RMarshallFNP

Ryan Marshall is the transportation and growth and development reporter for the News-Post. He can be reached at rmarshall@newspost.com.

(186) comments

awteam2000

The Stonewall Jackson statue was removed from Monument Square in Richmond today.

jerseygrl42

DISGUSTING ANIMALS

threecents

Jersey, Who are you talking about, and did your mean to make that sound like a racial slur?

KR999

OK three, and how would you get a "racial slur" from jersey's comment? What race did she mention, insinuate, huh? Please, let us know!

phydeaux994

Most of the 161 comments are blaming Black people CD, do you think that jerseygrl42’s would be any different??? She/He??? doesn’t even try to hide their prejudice. BTW, the article about the guy that murdered his wife and dumped her in a creek yesterday got nothing from the RRR(RadicalRightRepublicans)/BTT(BullyTagTeam). Surprise..Surprise..Surprise!!!

threecents

KR999, For your answers, allow me to refer you to American History 101.

KR999

Three, just looking for an answer to my question, that's all. Got one, or just more deflection?

threecents

KR999, That was not a deflection.

MD1756

phydeaux, are you reading the same comments? Most comments are not directly addressing race (only to the extent some people have preconceived notions of who the perpetrators are or what race liberals and conservatives are) much less blaming any particular race.

As far as someone murdering their wife and dumping her in a creek, what comments do you expect other than the person(s) guilty (I didn't read the article) should be given the death penalty (but that won't happen in MD).

KR999

Your reply wasn't deflection, three? It sure wasn't an answer to my question. Got one?

threecents

KR999, If you are not familiar with American history, below is a website you can start with. You may be surprised to find that some people have been treated like "filthy animals" in these United States because of their skin color. I simply wondered if Jersey was referring to that. It makes sense if you think about it why she chose those words. https://memory.loc.gov/ammem/aaohtml/exhibit/aopart1b.html

des21

God, such hyper-sensitivity 3. This forum is for children.

threecents

?

phydeaux994

How do you know that the destruction wasn’t done by White people to make the Black people look bad.....it’s possible, RIGHT CD???

KR999

See my comment of 7:28 PM, fido.

ma23464

Yet all these cities such as Minneapolis are run by liberals. Many of these cities that have racial injustice and economic issues are run largely by black liberals. Yet the citizens get angry at the police. The city police work for the city. The state police for the state. You need to go after your mayor, city council, state reps and governor. These are the idiots that continue to pass laws and empower police to oppress minority’s.

I contend that hate crime laws actually oppress minorities. By making a special class of citizens the law insinuates that the group is beneath others and needs special protections.

All these ridiculous laws are causing the problem. Our county passed a ballon release ordnance. Now imagine a person could now be killed by police for releasing a ballon. Think I am crazy, well Eric Garner was killed for selling a cigarette. Locally A mentally disabled man was killed at a movie theater for attempting to watch another movie.

bosco

How's that Summer of Love in the CHOP zone going? [ninja]

gabrielshorn2013

Two shot dead (from internal participants) and counting bosco.

bosco

Ohhh, that won't help the left liberals narrative. I'm sure it was a peaceful protest and any deaths are because of 400 years of oppression. [ninja]

KR999

Trump's fault, bosco. ([lol])

shiftless88

It was not clear to me but I do not think these were gravestones, just general statues/memorials broadly. I can see removing the latter but not the former.

gabrielshorn2013

Shiftless, as stated in the 8th paragraph of the story:

It sits over a mass grave for 408 unknown Confederate soldiers who died on July 9, 1864 at the nearby Battle of Monocacy.

It was a gravestone for all those men.

shiftless88

Thanks; I was busy and couldn't read the whole article in depth

shiftless88

Actually, Gabe, that was only one of the three monuments. The statue was just a statue.

gabrielshorn2013

While it may be true that it was a statue shiftless, nonetheless it was a mass grave marker for 403 men. Visit the site.

chyandqt

It was grave stone!!!! even shows the pictures .......And I pray that they find the person or persons who did this and give them 20 yrs in jail

sevenstones1000

Boo hoo.

MD1756

Clearly you con't value diversity that disagrees with you.

gabrielshorn2013

But MD1756, seven is a WWW (woke white woman)! Far be it for her to know and understand history. To her it is OK to damage someone else's property, just not hers. What's that slogan? "Stay Outraged!" This is the nonsense you get because of it.

des21

Such empathy. Impressive.

Business Owner

And it's on private property.

chyandqt

I can't see removing them at all! It's a grave yard! And my people are there.........

sevenstones1000

It was a statue of a traitor. Good riddance.

MD1756

George Washington started a war that cost the British government a lot of money. George Washington tried unsuccessfully to get a commission in the British Army. George Washington took up arms against the legal authority. George Washington's actions prolonged slavery in this country. George Washington owned slaves. Based on you reactions you should be demanding the removal of George Washington from everything including the one dollar bill and quarter. Any other position would be hypocritical. So, let's see you lead the charge for the renaming of all things Washington and removal of his image from all structures, money, etc. Washington DC would then become simply the District (not state) of Columbia.

Blueline

That won't work either - named after Columbus. He's on the it list too.

KR999

In your mind he was a traitor, in his he was a patriot. And what he felt at the time was far more important to him than what you think about him today. I suppose you feel all the patriots who fought for the colonies in the Revolution were traitors, don't you seven? And, if you don't, why don't you?

awteam2000

KR999, You’ll need a lot of lip stick for that pig.

KR999

aw, HAH!!! That's nothing but a typical, leftist, deflection, "has-nothing-to-do-with-the-point" useless retort because you can't offer an answer that could keep you from looking the fool. Keep up the good work, you and yours will ensure Trump's re-election in November. And thank you. [thumbup]

threecents

Not just a traitor, but I traitor who went to war to preserve slavery. I don't applaud illegal destruction of property, but I am not shedding any tears over the loss of a statue celebrating the confederacy.

gabrielshorn2013

It was a grave marker for 403 unknown Confederate soldiers who died doing their duty for their Country (State), three. They were not traitors, and had to do as ordered, or face possible death by hanging of firing squad for not doing so. I will ask you too then, what traitor was this a statue of? Do you even know? Hint. Many of these statues were mass produced by companies in the North for both the Union and the Confederate memorials. They were exactly the same. Check out this WaPo story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/why-those-confederate-soldier-statues-look-a-lot-like-their-union-counterparts/2017/08/18/cefcc1bc-8394-11e7-ab27-1a21a8e006ab_story.html

gabrielshorn2013

Who was it a statue of seven, hmmm? The men buried beneath that "statue" (mass grave site marker for 403 soldiers) were not traitors. They were doing their patriotic duty to their State (what would be now called "country"). They were conscripts, and had no choice but to do what they were ordered to do. Failure to do so could get the soldier shot if on the battlefield. The vast majority of Confederate soldiers did not have slaves, nor supported the practice. Pick up a book sometime and educate your "woke" self.

awteam2000

Yes, many rebels could read. Most were illiterate.

gabrielshorn2013

And what does your 6:01 comment have to do with the conversation, aw? Non-sequitur

Business Owner

The silence from the Aldermen, County Commissioners, and Board of Education members -- who quickly condemned the graffiti on the Baker Park covered bridge -- is deafening. I guess they sanction the desecration of graves and memorials on private property.

threecents

Bus Ow, One is much worse than the other. I think that is the point you are missing.

gabrielshorn2013

Which one three? I think despoiling a grave is more serious. After all, the "woke" among us said that paint can be "removed with a can of Goof-Off and some elbow grease".

awteam2000

I find it oddly coincidental the vandalism in Baker’s Park and the vandalism in Mt. Olivette Cemetery were days apart. I wouldn’t be surprise if they were the same instigators, done only to aggravate racial tensions.

Business Owner

You may be right.

quandary101

100 percent I am betting they are not blacks.

KR999

I'm betting they're BLM members and supporters. The reason being, any radical will spray paint graffiti anywhere, whether to further his agenda, or to make an opponent's agenda look bad. So either could have done the graffiti work in the park. But there's no way a white supremacy group is going to destroy a Confederate soldier monument just to try to make an opponent like BLM look bad. No f-in' way.

gabrielshorn2013

Could be a false flag operation KR999. Could be a bunch of @$$#0[3$ looking for attention and thinking they're funny. We simply don't know. Either way, they're despicable low-life criminals.

sevenstones1000

Statues can be replaced. Human lives cannot. Get your priorities straight. Direct your outrage in the proper direction.

Dwasserba

Resting in peace is just a generally accepted preference even for anonymous dead people.

Reader1954

when are they going to tear down the MLK statue? Obviously they don't respect his ideas either

dancing donna

Animals would not even do this. Desecrating such a thin shows how ignorant humans can be. I am ashamed to be part of a race (a human race) that would do such acts. IF people want respect and a voice, it must be done respectfully. There should be a special island in the middle of nowhere for serious spiritual reform for those people who seek to vandalize, to violate, and to live in darkness. God help us all.

sevenstones1000

As far as I know, enslaved people never got any respect.

The reckoning is here. You aren’t in charge any more.

gabrielshorn2013

So you support desecration of graves seven? These dead soldiers had no choice but to fight as they were ordered to by their State.

sevenstones1000

It’s a statue, not a grave. And frankly, let’s move them back south.

When you commit treason, there’s a price to pay. Boo hoo.

KR999

Maryland is a state in the South, seven, the Upper South. Ever hear of the Mason Dixon Line?

gabrielshorn2013

Jeez seven, do you even read the stories? It was a marker for the mass grave of unknown Confederate dead from the Battle of Monocacy. They were not traitors, nor did they commit treason. Pick up a book and educate your "woke" ignorant self.

jloo

Oh, and you are? Desecrating hallowed ground in no way advances human rights or racial relations. Those soldiers were Americans. they fought on the wrong side and paid with their lives. In addition, they were denied the honor of burial in our national cemeteries and are interred in a mass grave. I suggest they paid enough. The cowards that did this are just that, cowards.

sevenstones1000

The statue of a traitor is not hallowed.

KR999

Maybe to you, seven. But the statue of a patriot is hallowed to millions of people.

threecents

7[thumbup] The ground was not desecrated and neither were the graves. Only to symbol celebrating the confederacy was desecrated. Sorry, not sorry.

gabrielshorn2013

Wow three, your logic escapes me. So, according to you, as long as the grave itself is not disturbed, it is OK to knock down the marker for it. Got it. So, using your own logic, it would be OK for someone who has a beef with Israel to knock over and deface a Star of David grave marker in a cemetery, as long as the grave itself is not disturbed. You can't possibly believe that.

threecents

Obviously you are correct that my logic escapes you. Sad for you.

gabrielshorn2013

Don't be sad for me three, when the flawed logic is yours. Own it. You think that it's OK to tear down a grave marker if someone objects to it, as long as the grave is not disturbed. I merely changed the name of the grave marker to make it resonate with you. If you can't see that, then that's a tad hypocritical.

threecents

Aww, that's so sad. You're still posting.

gabrielshorn2013

smh three. You have no credibility anymore. Pick up a textbook and educate your "woke" ignorant self.

threecents

Aww, You are so sweet.

gabrielshorn2013

How old are you three? Grow up.

threecents

Thanks for the advice.

gabrielshorn2013

Anytime three. Glad to help.

threecents

Help? That's so sweet.

gabrielshorn2013

Thanks three. Sometimes it's readily apparent that you need a little help. So when you need it, I'll provide it. [wink]

threecents

Thanks again.

gabrielshorn2013

No problem.

awteam2000

dd, Maybe they should put a knee on someone’s neck fo 8:46 minutes. Only the human animal treats (another human) with violent disrespect; violating (desecrating) their human life.

gabrielshorn2013

These fallen soldiers, ordered to fight by their state, didn't have their knee on anybody's neck, aw. False equivalency.

awteam2000

Stand in Agreement. The “Black Live Matter” movement isn’t about tearing down statues, even much less grave markers. Not for vandalizing grave markers, not in Mt Olivet Cemetery or the Laboring Sons Cemetery (freed slaves graves) once located between Fifth and Sixth Street in Frederick. Desecration is desecration.

One policeman’s act shouldn’t be broad brushed how all police behave nor should an act of vandalism defined as a race (even the human race) but more likely individuals, possibly expressing their owe frustration, or maybe to cause havoc between racial differences. Maybe a false equivalence but very relevant.

Taking ones life is a far worse desecration them pulling down Civil War statues. But both are wrong but not equivalent. You don’t want it, I don’t want it, and I bet Dancing Donna doesn’t want it. So let’s address the root cause. “Systemic racism” and get on with it.

gabrielshorn2013

Never said black lives didn't mattter, aw. Yes, in fact BLACK LIVES MATTER. Did you hear it that time? It still is not an excuse for desecrating a marker for a mass grave of unknown soldiers.

awteam2000

Who claiming to excuse or give credit? Not me. I haven’t seen that on this thread. Just saying I can understand their frustration, after 400 years of (file in the blanks). I’m saying you need to look at the root causes. And how did you get your bold print to work?

threecents

What do some people have against animals??

quandary101

I truly hope they catch these criminals. I am willing to bet this was not done by BLM. I truly think there are those who want to start a race war. United we stand, divided we will definitely fall. #lovenothate

phydeaux994

I have stated this before, I believe that tearing down Monuments and Statues and renaming Schools and Buildings and roads is meaningless at this point. Tear them all down, rename them all, and when you’re done nothing has changed. The problem of 400 years of Black oppression will remain. I think all this effort to destroy the memory of the Civil War accomplishes very little. 40% of the citizens of America today are White Supremacists, they believe the same things those men did. Scream your denials you will. Then reread today’s comments from CD (KR999) and bosco and other RRR(RadicalRightRepublicans) and multiply that by millions in the Country. They don’t want Black, or any people of color to be part of THEIR AMERICA. Neither does Donald John Trump, that’s why they love him. They don’t want another Barack Obama or a Black Female Vice President. That is the problem that must be solved.

mrnatural1

Good point phy. [thumbup]

DickD

[thumbup]

KR999

Yeah, yeah, yeah fido. [yawn]

bosco

As Fido suggested, re-read the comments here, all of them, and see who is spewing the hate, vitriol, and divisiveness toward anyone with a differing opinion. [ninja]

jloo

So Oprah Winfrey is oppressed. Lebron James is oppressed. Robert Johnson is oppressed. Barrack Obama is oppressed. Black people NEED your help? Really?

MD1756

Phydeaux, I'm curious, to know what is the source of your 40% are white supremacists claim? Using census estimates for 2019 for the U.S., 76.3% are white and more narrowly, 60.1% are white alone (not Hispanic or Latino). Now lets assume that a low/negligible percentage of other races and Hispanics are white supremacists. That would mean roughly 2/3 of whites are white supremacists. Really?

phydeaux994

Just look at Trump’s approval rating MD. Those are the people that support Trump, his “base”. The reason they support him is because he is a White Supremacist. Why else would you blindly support him, because he is good for America?? 😂🤣😷

gabrielshorn2013

That wasn't the question phy. You threw out a stat that you submit to be a fact, and people want to know if it is indeed a fact, or something you made up. TDS with TT sequelae 24/7/365. Stay on topic.

MD1756

Next time put a disclaimer in your postings that your figures are based on you're own mind with no basis in reality or reasoned thought.

KR999

Yes fido, as gabe said, that wasn't the question. So, exactly where did you get your facts from to state that "40% of the citizens of America today are White Supremacists?" HUH??? And please quote from reputable sources, not garbage like Wikipedia. WAITING...…...

KR999

The cowards who did this are in no way any better than the ones who did the graffiti over the weekend.

Greg F

Less the cowards that had to erect statues to keep others down and intimidated. They are too afraid of progress and change.

chyandqt

No we are not afraid of change! The reason they still down because they want to be down

KR999

You hit the nail on the head,chyandqt. the liberals who govern the major cities have the ones they govern right in their back pockets, and have every intention of keeping them there. Love dat free gubmint money!!!

chyandqt

Your right!

threecents

KR999 Agree to disagree.

bosco

The idiots responsible must have read the book How To Win Friends and Influence People since this sort of destruction goes a long way in helping their cause and garnering sympathy from the citizenry. [ninja]

Piedmontgardener

This is where a righteous movement needs to police itself. It's very important to have public opinion on your side.

phydeaux994

👍👍👍

Business Owner

All better now? Now let the dead (Union and Confederate) rest in peace.

chyandqt

what store do you own?

Dwasserba

Might not be a store. Why.

JohnSchaeffer1

Surely acts like this will end the racial divide in the country.

public-redux

What I truly admire about you is that you made the same sort of comments on the article about the graffiti in Baker Park.

chyandqt

No it's not growing us together that is for sure! And I'll never forget this and the people who did this ever!

jwhamann

Bunch of dillweeds. That’s private property.

chyandqt

Yes! it is private Property

MrSniper

I’m glad they tore it down. You want history? Read a book.

gabrielshorn2013

This is not a statue in a public square or public building sniper. This is someone's grave marker in a private cemetery. Would you also approve of grave robbing? If you are that ignorant of US history, I suggest that YOU read a book. Most of the soldiers fighting for the Confederacy did not own slaves, nor had anything to do with slavery. Historian and author Shelby Foote stated it best in Ken Burns PBS documentary "The Civil War" when he said "You have to understand that the raggedy Confederate soldier who owned no slaves and probably couldn't even read the Constitution, let alone understand it, when he was captured by Union soldiers and asked, 'What are you fighting for?' replied, 'I'm fighting because you're down here." Their State (equivalent to what we now consider country) ordered them to fight. They had no choice. To despoil someone's grave is absolutely disgusting. I hope the perpetrator is caught soon.

mrnatural1

Well said gabriel. [thumbup]

Business Owner

Well said gabrielshorn2013. We didn't call ourselves "Americans" until after the Civil War. One thing came to mind -- there are German Cemeteries in France, particularly Normandy. The French treat these places with respect.

chyandqt

And I'll tell you this! Frederick Md was founded by the Germans, and at the cemetary was 6 generations burried .And Yes, each one of them was AMERICANS

rlc5495

Absolutely right. Have some respect for the dead.

DickD

Me too, Gabe.

MrSniper

We don’t care. These monuments to a backwards time & backwards people & a backwards cause are coming down. When everything is said & done, that will be the history that is told. Winners get to write history.

gabrielshorn2013

Who's this "we" sniper? You speak for others? The majority? If you were involved in despoiling a grave, you are despicable. This unknown man had no choice but to serve his state. Read a freakin' book and educate your "woke" ignorant self. As someone pointed out below, there are German graves in Normandy, and these graves are hallowed ground, despite being "the enemy".

Those men had no choice but to fight for their country either, regardless of what their beliefs may have been.

chyandqt

Gabrielhorn you are so very right... I hope so too.

elmerchismo1

They were fighting to defend a government whose leaders publicly and repeatedly stated that the reason for that government's existence was the promotion and defense of slavery.

gabrielshorn2013

Nonsense elmer. They were doing as ordered by their government (at that time it was the individual sovereign state). While their governments may have supported slavery, the common Confederate soldier did not own slaves, nor support the institution. Read a book. Historian and authors James McPherson or Shelby Foote are two of the best.

dagcolby

You're absolutely correct. One of my ancestors was conscripted right off the family farm in Virginia and returned with out his leg. They weren't wealthy or educated, I assume. I was never told the story with any sense of pride that he had fought for The Confederacy. I do believe the General statues should come down LEGALLY, but the vandals defaced a mass grave of unknown boys killed in at Monocacy.

Dwasserba

I have forebears through adoption who participated, now in cemeteries. MD is unique in that some families had sons in both armies. That they should rest together here is appropriate. There is no right or wrong side past death. Death ends it. RIP

hn_181

[thumbup][thumbup]

Business Owner

The books are next.

chyandqt

Business owner are you in Frederick?

fnpreader123

Stop trying to harass then by finding out their business. We all know the terrorist tactics the crazies employ to intimidate businesses that don't 100% follow their declared doctrine. Get a new hobby.

jwhamann

Stick to killing innocent people.

chyandqt

Really I have my family of 6 generations there. That are burried... And you make a statement like that......See, i'm not afraid to show my face as you are. But I think that I know who you are hiding behind that wall.

chyandqt

You must have no feelings inside you for you to speak like that. We have our families burried there.

Dwasserba

So sorry. Feelings are high and people are not always differentiating public monuments from private ones that held significance for bereaved families. Disturbing graves is never appropriate. Just - never.

MD1756

Based on your previous comment it would appear that since you use the term "we," you are one of the perpetrators. So if you're not a coward as some suggest those destroying statues and monuments they don't like are not cowards, why not talk to the police and tell them you're proud of what you did to a grave marker on private property.

MD1756

That comment was directed toward MrSniper.

JohnSchaeffer1

The righteous cowards only show up at night.

MrSniper

Like the klan?

Greg F

The cowards were the ones who tried to glorify their lost cause of racism by erecting the majority of them decades later as an attempt to keep intimidation and repression going. It may not apply to all of them, but a hell of a lot of them.

gabrielshorn2013

Um, greg...it was a grave marker for an unknown Confederate soldier. Read the story.

rlc5495

[thumbup]

Greg F

Did you not see where I said many statues. This is but one of many.

chyandqt

I don't matter people destory private property

gabrielshorn2013

Um, greg...that still does not apply to this story.

chyandqt

thugs

Whatsup

Childishness, destroying things. Try behaving like an adult.

Comment deleted.
gabrielshorn2013

[offtopic]

Greg F

Obviously B he’s in your head all the wonderful things you tout as his accomplishments and purposefully ignore as his ignorant doings...one of which is face baiting and hate mongering that leads to statues coming down. They are related...as much as you would like to portray they aren’t.

Greg F

Race baiting...stupid autocorrect.

gabrielshorn2013

Who in the world are you talking to greg/ fedup/doc/sybil? Trump is way off topic. Even you should be able to see that. BTW, not a supporter either.

KR999

Greg F Jun 30, 2020 6:36pm

Race baiting...stupid autocorrect.

Out smarted by your smart device, were ya? [lol][lol][lol]

Comment deleted.
bosco

Trump really lives in your head, GregF. Have you ever thought about what that is doing to your life - all that rage?[ninja]

mdfishingboy

What is wrong with the thinking of our local police. Don't you realize this is going to happen. So why no extra security. We can't destroy our history we need to study it.

JohnSchaeffer1

So your saying we need MORE police presence.

awteam2000

Not a fan of defacing statues, but I understand the frustration. Baltimore had a plethora of Confederate statues, most have been removed, without destruction. 155 years after the confederate states were destroyed and surrendered. The lost cause, we still memorialize, celebrate their cause as heroes. Do you still want to concede? A Confederate nation? It’s time to remove those statues. They are insulting, acknowledgments of the lost cause, racist superiority over others. Yes, It’s part of our National experience . They should be preserved, placed in historical parks, telling the story and their stories.

They are tributes to the confederate cause, Rebels against our nation for the preservation of slavery, racism as an immoral economic condition , and then they were memorialized, all over the county, the state and states, and the whole country. Do you want the police focused on statues of heroes of the antebellum rather then serving the living? I would rather local, states and the national governments debate whether these statues represent our values today? As national heroes?

They clearly have their place in history but not as national heroes. They seceded.

KR999

So aw, what's the difference between the Southern rebels in 1861 and the Colonial rebels in 1776? You are aware of the fact that, in 1860, when S.C. seceded, there was nothing in our Constitution preventing it, aren't you?

Greg F

That was their argument, which proved false https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_the_United_States

KR999

Don't quote Wikipedia if you want credibility for any arguments, Greg F, there's too many legitimate sources that you can use. Don't be so lazy.

awteam2000

Obviously 🙄 KR999, the colonial rebels won - creating a new country , where as the confederate rebels lost - failing to create their new country .🤦‍♂️

KR999

aw, the intent of my question was what was the difference between their causes at the beginning of their respective wars?

awteam2000

Taxation without representation? Verses, the preservation of slavery! Maybe you are fishing for some higher cause that doesn’t exist.

MD1756

The difference is the colonists rebelled in a large part due to the taxes the crown levied on them to help pay for the defense of the colonists who kept stirring up wars with the French and Indians. George Washington started a world war in 1754. He tried to get a commission as an officer in the British army. If he received one I doubt he would have led the American army during the revolution. Another difference is slavery wasn't addressed by the rebellion because if it did prohibited, I doubt the colonies below PA would have helped the rebellion. As it turns out, slavery would likely have ended sooner in America if the colonies had not seceded (the slave trade would have ended in 1803 and slavery possibly in 1833).

gabrielshorn2013

You are absolutely correct MD1756, but there is more that those that have not studied US history in depth do not realize. By the time of the War for US Secession (a.k.a. the Revolutionary War), slavery had been practiced in all of the colonies for over 150 years, and was still legal in all of those colonies in 1776. In his response to the Declaration of independence, Massachusetts Colonial Governor Hutchinson clearly pointed out that hypocrisy. Therefore, since Britain was anti-slavery, and well on the road to abolition of that practice, the Colonials were fighting to maintain slavery in their individual colonies. Yes, the Patriots in 1776 and the Rebels in 1861 were fighting to support the right of people to own people.

awteam2000

Fighting to own people? That’s not what the Declaration of Independence says. But the Confederate’s declaration to seceded does, The “Corner Stone Speech”, declaration of secession from the union clearly states is was to preserve slavery.

MD1756

Aweteam, George Washington most certainly did not rebel against the crown in order to free his slaves.

awteam2000

Nope, “Slavery“ wasn’t mentioned in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. They rebelled, went to war over keeping slavery as an institution, but failed to seceded.

George didn’t rebel against the new Nation to keep his slaves. As president he even stopped states wanting to seceded from the Union. I guess he felt the new country should determine their own direction, for better or worse. You may not know that even George Washington, 60 years before the civil war, he freed his slaves at a material and financial loss to his estate.

gabrielshorn2013

Irrelevant, aw. Whether they wrote it, whispered it, or shouted it from the rooftops, the result was the same. It is a fact that you cannot dispute that at the time of the War of American Secession, in both the northern and southern Colonies, people legally owned people. The colonists wanted to maintain their “American” way of life, with the guarantee of “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness (the last term was switched from “property” in earlier drafts). The Colonists fought for their property; anything that belonged to them, including people. Read it for yourself. The reference is below the excerpt from Massachusetts Colonial Governor Hutchinson pointing out the Colonists hypocrisy:

DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. In Congress, July 4, 1776 We hold these truths to be self-evident  That all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; and whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

HUTCHINSON. They begin, my Lord, with a false hypothesis, That the Colonies are one distinct people and the kingdom another, connected by political bands.

I should therefore be impertinent if I attempted to show in what case a whole people may be justified in rising up in oppugnation [opposition] to the powers of government, altering or abolishing them and substituting, in whole or in part, new powers in their stead; or in what sense all men are created equal, or how far life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness may be said to be unalienable. Only I could wish to ask the Delegates of Maryland, Virginia, and the Carolinas how their Constituents justify the depriving more than an hundred thousand Africans of their rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and in some degree to their lives, if these rights are so absolutely unalienable; nor shall I attempt to confute the absurd notions of government or to expose the equivocal or inconclusive expressions contained in this Declaration; but rather to show the false representation made of the facts which are alleged to be the evidence of injuries and usurpations, and the special motives to Rebellion. There are many of them, with designs, left obscure; for as soon as they are developed, instead of justifying, they rather aggravate the criminality of this Revolt.

https://americainclass.org/sources/makingrevolution/rebellion/text8/hutchinsonrebuttal.pdf

KR999

aw, the colonists of 1776 and the Southerners in 1861 were fighting for independence. You know that, but you're too afraid to acknowledge it because to do so would legitimize the Southern Cause, and you're just not adult enough to admit that I'm right.

awteam2000

“It is a fact that you cannot dispute that at the time of the War of American Secession, in both the northern and southern Colonies, people legally owned people.“

But isn’t the issue that led to the civil war was secession for slavery? Whether you like it or not the revolutionary war was over representation in “Parliament“ not over slavery. Read the Declaration of Independence. It doesn’t mention “we want slaves. No mention of slavery at all.. . Then read the “Corner Stone Speech“ declaring the Confederate StTes.

The Supreme Court has consistently interpreted the Constitution to be an "indestructible" Union as early as The War of 1812. There is no legal basis a state can point to for unilaterally seceding. Many scholars hold that the Confederate secession was blatantly illegal.

MD1756

In other words, aweteam, George Washington was a hypocrite who believed in rebellion only when it suited him. We allow divorces of marriages, why not countries under certain conditions?

Regarding Washington's slaves here is a quick source: https://www.history.com/news/did-george-washington-really-free-mount-vernons-slaves . It is well known that Washington freed his slaves when he had no use for them (in other words after he then his wife died). In fact according to History.com, "...as noted in Erica Armstrong Dunbar’s book, Never Caught: The Washingtons’ Relentless Pursuit of Their Runaway Slave, Ona Judge, when one of Martha’s enslaved workers fled to freedom in 1796, Washington spent the last three years of his life trying to force her to return."

Do you still want to say his owning slaves was a special case and should be overlooked, but in the case of the Confederacy, it's all bad? That's like giving Bill Clinton a pass in the "Me Too" movement.

gabrielshorn2013

@aw 4:39. Uhh, no aw. It is a fact that Washington’s slaves were freed 60 years before the Civil War. However, he did not free them. They were freed by Martha Washington, a year after his death.

By the time George died, he owned 123 enslaved people outright. After Washington’s death, Martha freed just one person: William Lee, a Revolutionary War celebrity who was the only enslaved person George said should be immediately given his freedom. But she didn’t free the others—until she became convinced that they were plotting against her. After at least one fire and a rumor that an enslaved person wanted to poison her, she freed the rest of George’s enslaved workers about a year after his death.

https://www.history.com/news/did-george-washington-really-free-mount-vernons-slaves

What states did Washington stop from seceding from the “Union”, aw? You have mentioned this a few times, yet give no specifics or references. You mentioned Pennsylvania and Massachusetts previously, but those were not attempts at secession. The former was the “Whiskey Rebellion” in western Pennsylvania, which was a tax revolt, not secession. The latter was “Shay’s Rebellion”, again, a tax revolt and not a secession attempt.

gabrielshorn2013

@awteam2000 Jul 1, 2020 5:31pm. aw, I suggest you read Massachusetts Colonial Governor Hutchinson's rebuttal to the Declaration of Independence. I provided the link for you above. Do you believe that Maryland, Virginia, and the Carolina's were not fighting to preserve their slaves as specifically called out by Hutchinson? Yes, they were. He also calls out many other follies mentioned in the Declaration, one by one, including taxation. The Colonists started the French and Indian Wars, and the Crown expected them to pay for it. We pointed this out to you several times now.

https://americainclass.org/sources/makingrevolution/rebellion/text8/hutchinsonrebuttal.pdf

rlc5495

You should remember that all the soldiers that fought for the Confederacy were someone's son's, brothers, husbands and father's. They deserve for their graves to be unmolested. That's just common decency.

hn_181

[thumbup] thank you. They were humans too; different times, very different circumstances. We have to remember our world is completely different than that of their time. No matter what they were defending, what they believed in, people seem to want to hold these (unknown) soldiers to the same standard and morals of thinking that we have in America today, and that just simply was not the case back then. It's exhausting trying to get people to understand that and put themselves in the mindset of the 1860s.

P.S. - ACAB stands for All Cops Are Bad, a regularly used and touted acronym stemming from Antifa and your wonderful Frederick Socialists here in this town.

Business Owner

Agree with rlc5495.

gabrielshorn2013

@hn_181. "In certain contexts, the Anti-Defamation League categorizes the phrase as a hate symbol and describes it as "a slogan of long standing in the skinhead culture," while noting the phrase is used both by racist and anti-racist skinheads.

Dwasserba

[thumbup]rlc Grave markers can't defend their reason for existing and no one should have to.

DickD

What good does this vandalism do? The Confederate.soldiers have been dead about 160 years. Destroying statues is not going to improve the situation. Let them rest in peace.

jerseygrl42

IT SIMPLY PROVES THAT THESE VANDALS HAVE NO BRIAN, NO DECENCY AND NO CLASS...THEY JUST WANT FREE STUFF ANYWAY THEY CAN GET IT

Lemmy

The temper tantrum continues . . . . .

Dwasserba

"Pearcey noted the area of the cemetery where more than 400 Confederate soldiers are buried was untouched..." It was not necessary to mention what has not happened...

vodalone

Why not?

gabrielshorn2013

Think about it vodalone. These cowards now have new targets and graves to despoil. Not cool.

Dwasserba

Thank you for getting it. I asked to have the sentence and my comment deleted but I seem to be lacking power or influence. Ooops

chyandqt

Because I have family there. For 6 generations now! And what people did is against the law!

chyandqt

And my family is there....They will be a day you and many ofthers will have to face as you hide behind that blank face of yours

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