A Thurmont man charged with first-degree murder in the death of a 19-year-old Frederick man allegedly stored firearms and explosives in his home, something police believe could indicate he intended to commit a mass shooting.

Joshua David Eckenrode, also 19, has been charged in the death of Curtis Mason Smith, the Frederick County Sheriff's Office said Wednesday morning. Eckenrode faces an additional charge of firearm use in a violent crime. The sheriff's office immediately classified the death as suspicious. Smith was reported missing by family March 19.

The Frederick County Sheriff’s Office initially held Eckenrode on the charges of possession of destructive devices, possession of a firearm and possession of explosives without a license. He was arrested in the early hours of March 23 after police served a search and seizure warrant at his Thurmont residence the night of March 22, charging documents show.

Police found eight firearms — including an AR-15 — bomb-making materials and three improvised explosive devices in his apartment in the 6700 block of Mountaindale Road, according to charging documents. Police reportedly found a note addressed to Eckenrode’s family, apologizing for “having to go out this way.” There was also a written “plan of action” found, charging documents allege.

This evidence, police wrote in charging documents, “was consistent with Eckenrode possibly intending on committing a mass shooting and/or mass casualty event.” Police believe he killed Smith at a Bethel Road, Frederick residence associated with Eckenrode, put the body in Smith’s car and drove it to an abandoned property on Runnymeade Drive.

After conducting interviews with witnesses, police learned Smith may have planned to travel to West Virginia to meet Eckenrode to buy, sell or trade a firearm when he went missing. The two reportedly went to school together.

A motive for the killing was not immediately clear, but a witness reportedly told police Eckenrode said a deal went bad.

Body found

On March 21, people chasing a loose dog found Smith’s vehicle on an abandoned property in the 8100 block of Runnymeade Drive, charging documents state. Police found Smith dead inside the vehicle with a gunshot wound to the head and abrasions on his back. There was reportedly a large amount of blood and three live 9mm caliber bullets inside the vehicle. The cause of death was a gunshot wound, but it was not clear how many times Smith was shot.

The sheriff’s office and Frederick Police Department responded and found the vehicle in the driveway on the north side of the property that leads up to the abandoned home.

Police found a Thurmont apartment associated with Eckenrode and went there on March 22. During a conversation with police, Eckenrode reportedly said he’d been talking to Smith about buying a vehicle. He allegedly told police he saw Smith in person at the Bethel Road residence on March 19 around 9 or 10 a.m. Smith reportedly came to show Eckenrode a vehicle.

At the Frederick residence on Tuesday, police allegedly found blood on the driveway and on a trail leading to a grassy area. Smith’s blood-soaked clothing was found in a trashcan at the residence, charging documents state. A shotgun, tactical gun holsters, bits of Styrofoam, flares and fireworks were allegedly found in Eckenrode’s bedroom at the Frederick home. Several spent shell casings were allegedly found in the yard.

Deputies transported Eckenrode to the Frederick County Adult Detention Center, where he is being held without bail. A bail review scheduled for Wednesday was canceled. He did not have an attorney listed in online court records Wednesday afternoon. A preliminary hearing is planned for April 13.

“Our detectives and deputies, along with officers from the Frederick Police Department, have been working around the clock to solve this murder,” Lt. Andy Crone, FCSO criminal investigations commander, said in a prepared statement. “These professionals worked every lead, tip, and call they received and through their investigative efforts this person was quickly identified and detained.”

The Maryland Office of the State Fire Marshal and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives helped render the explosive devices safe, the sheriff's office said.

The investigation is still ongoing. Police ask that anyone having information related to this case contact the FCSO tip line at 301-600-4131 and reference case No. 21-025637.

A GoFundMe campaign to support funeral expenses for the Smith family had raised more than $14,500 in less than 24 hours. The page can be found by going to gofundme.com and searching “Curtis 'Mason' Smith Funeral Expenses Support.”

Editor's note: Due to a discrepancy in charging documents, a previous version of this article mistakenly identified the day the body was found.

Follow Mary Grace Keller on Twitter: @MaryGraceKeller 

(164) comments

phydeaux994

gab, 2 questions. 1. What State has mandatory gun Registration? 2. What State has the lowest gun violence?

gabrielshorn2013

OK phy, here is my response.

Required registration: California (but any long guns purchased before 2015 are exempted), DC, Hawaii, Maryland (handguns), Michigan (handguns), New Jersey (handguns), New York (handguns), US Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico, USVI

Lowest Rate per capita: Hawaii

However, are you claiming cause and effect? If so, the other States requiring mandatory registration of all firearms would be similar, correct? They would also perform better than the other states, correct? The rankings in gun deaths per capita are: Hawaii at 50, California is 44, Maryland is 29, Michigan is 37, New Jersey is 45, and New York is 48. Massachusetts (with no registration requirement) is 49, Rhode Island (with no registration requirement ) is 47, likewise with no registration requirement is Washington 38, Wisconsin 39, New Hampshire 40, Iowa 41, Nebraska 42, Minnesota 43, Oregon 30, Illinois 31, Virginia 32, South Dakota 33, Vermont 34, Maine 35, and Delaware at 36. So there are 16 states without registration requirements that do better than Maryland, with some of the toughest registration requirements in the country. Can you explain that? What is the difference between the states with the lower rates? It can’t be registration, because some without registration are doing better than those with registrations. Please provide references with your answers, as I have below.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gun-deaths-per-capita-by-state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

shiftless88

If you have a law saying a gun cannot be transferred to someone out of state but there are no reporting requirements, what is the point of the law? Who could ever prove it? That is the point, Gabe. It's the honor system and many people have no honor. If gun transactions were fully tracked then it would be straightforward to enforce this.

PurplePickles aka L&M

If you haven't noticed gabe is a gun person, he knows so much about the laws and types of guns etc...now as a non-gun owner I don't really pay that close attention to those details but a gun person would, you know because they are a gun person and those are some very important details to know if you are gun person. As a non-gun owner I pay attention when mass shootings happen because you know I don't want to die in a mass shooting.

Gab is just trying to protect himself, and me well I have no protections really from people that know guns and the laws and such...I am but collateral damage. Gab has no intention of acknowledging your argument honestly because he cares more about his protections than ours.

gabrielshorn2013

Cheap shot pickles, and it is unfortunate that you cannot have a civil debate without resorting to an ad-hominem. Oh well... I do care what happens to others pickles, and your claim of being collateral damage is ridiculous. That is why I asked what you would propose to reduce shootings. You have offered nothing yet. What is your proposal, given the 2A ramifications?

Yes, I an unabashedly a gun person. I own many, and compete at a high level. I am also highly trained in the use of each of the categories that I compete in. My firearms only hurt paper, and whatever I may hunt. I want to keep firearms out of the hands of those that should not have them. How would you do that? Please be specific.

PurplePickles aka L&M

so calling you a gun person is an ad-hominem? okay you want to call me an ad-hominem back? also why are you so surprised I know you so well?

gabrielshorn2013

No, pickles, I do not "want to call you one back". I don't do that. Ad hominems are not name calling, they are attacks or statements directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining. Your statement above was not addressing my position or the facts that I provided in support of that position. I am still waiting to hear what you would propose to prevent shootings. You started out well yesterday at 4:07 PM, and acknowledged that background checks won't stop anyone from illegally obtaining a weapon. That's the last we heard of any ideas from you. What do you propose that would pass SCOTUS muster regarding the 2A? I have acknowledged shiftless' point about registration, and he knows that I always have. However, it will never happen, and he and I know it. So what is the alternative?

C.D.Reid

Well gabe, as I'm sure you've noticed, PurplePickles aka Snowflake has no response for you, other than to deflect. And I don't think anyone who reads it will be surprised.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@gabe

I know what an ad hominem is, and the only thing I thought may have been taken as an ad hominem was the words gun person, but couldn’t think of a better to say it, also I couldn’t think of a better way to describe you?

I didn’t think that describing someone could be seen as an ad hominem by anyone other than the someone I was describing? So my bad

MRS M

Gabe seems to have lost sight of the tragic circumstances surrounding the loss of one young life and the what appears to be the devastating and deadly mental illness of a second.

Why else would Gabe be exhaustively using this opportunity to once again promote his own "highest level of competing"; his "unabashed pride" in being a gun person, while 2 families suffer ....... two 19 year-old lives effectively lost..........and two families are broken and in grief? Yes, now's definitely the time for Gabe to continue to demonstrate all he knows, loves, and excels at, as it relates to "responsible" and "law-abiding" gun ownership. Frederick is impressed tonight, Gabe!...........except for those in deep mourning for the tragic loss of the life of Mason Smith.

gabrielshorn2013

Really? Can you give your snark a rest for once Mrs. M and contribute to the conversation? I merely answered every question asked of me, something you never do. I already expressed my condolences to the family and their loved ones, hoping they find peace. I guess you missed that. Of course this is a tragedy, and I keep asking others what they would propose to stop such tragedies from happening keeping in mind the 2A. You can't ignore that and hope to accomplish anything. So, be serious, what would you do. Be specific.

PurplePickles aka L&M

Snark? Honesty is not snark. But I can see why gabe thinks it is...?

gabrielshorn2013

So, any suggestions yet pickles?

PurplePickles aka L&M

When you decide to be honest I’ll give you my answers....it’s not until you are honest with yourself will you be willing to listen to my answers.... right?

gabrielshorn2013

When I decide to be honest, pickles? I have no reason to be dishonest. Where exactly have I lied? I have documented my opinions here. Have you?

PurplePickles aka L&M

Repeal and replace the 2nd amendment, so we can start over with something that allows for real gun control. You did agree yesterday with shiftless88’s comment that there was a problem with the availability of guns so, I know you will agree with my suggestion?

gabrielshorn2013

No, sorry pickles, I cannot agree to that. I am a strong supporter of the second ammendment, just as I strongly support the other 26. There is a process to amend the Constitution, which requires 2/3 support of each house of Congress, and ratification by 3/4 of the states. There is not much chance of that ever happening, so we have to be realistic and work within the system we have. I supported the bump stock ban, and the red flag laws, provided that due process follows the confiscation.

gabrielshorn2013

Thoroughly understand your point shiftless. You cannot prove transfer unless there is registration. So what is your proposal. keeping in mind the 2A ramifications, and the fact that there are over 330 million unregistered firearms in the US, and in all likelihood, will stay that way, given the evidence provided earlier. Firearms do not have an expiration date, so those firearms aren't going anywhere. You may try to implement such a registration scheme for all new firearms sold, but it won't likely pass SCOTUS 2A muster. Rather than wanting more laws and regulations, why not use what we currently have. It is already a known fact that most of the gun violence id perpetrated by repeat offenders. Each and every firearms violation of federal law is worth at least 5 years, and if multiple, must be served consecutively, not concurrently. When a perp is arrested for committing a crime with a firearm, that is a minimum of 20 years, yet they are out in no time. Why? If folks were truly serious about crimes committed with a gun, keep them in prison for their full sentence, and they can't be a repeat offender. Prosecute those that lied on their 4473 NCIS form (a felony punishable by 5 years for each lie) and failed their background check. Seventy thousand individuals have committed such felonies, and this is already law, but is not prosecuted. Why? Even the former Attorney General couldn't get his prosecutors to act on that. Possession of a stolen weapon is already a crime (5 years), especially if the serial number is removed (5 years) (5+5 = 10 years). There are disreputable firearm dealers that have been implicated in multiple traces, yet they still have a license. Pull the license! BTW, every firearms dealer is required to keep a record of a sale forever. The original purchaser can easily be found, and the gun traced. Those that say it was stolen should have filed a police report, and you shouldn't get more than one bite at that apple. Doing these steps will dry up a lot of the street gun supply.

Business Owner

Where others involved? How did this guy get from Cloverhill to Thurmont?

Awteam2021

Rte. 15

KellyAlzan

[smile]

HappySeller2014

Yeah. I was thinking by going northwards, either by car or bike.

KellyAlzan

Or by ballon. Oh, n/m

KellyAlzan

FNP Management:

You have two choices:

- moderate the comments for this story. A person was killed and his family and loved ones are reading this. You, FNP have commenters here posting insensitive comments and you, FNP, have commenters in here trolling and harassing fellow commenters.

MODERATE.

- if you’re too busy to moderate then disable the comments.

Your choice. Do the right thing

C.D.Reid

So, you post a comment at 10:59 and then, four minutes later, decide YOU want the comments shut down? That's rich, Pb! [lol][lol][lol]

PurplePickles aka L&M

@KellyAlzan

Agreed and after reading all the comments so far..it seems shiftless88's statement from yesterday is the only one true thing we all agree on: Yet another domestic terrorist. Good thing guns are so freely available to anyone with a pulse and $50.

Tragedies like this and the mass shooting that happened last week and the mass shooting that happened this week and the one that will happen next week..will just keep happening because no one wants to step up and come up with any real solutions....instead we complain about the exact location it happened or where someone went to high school or some other irrelevant issue..but hey what else is new....?

MD1756

Once again, it is too bad MD did away with the death penalty.

Awteam2021

MD1756, You think the death penalty would have prevented a nut in Thurmont or Mountaindale, preventing this murder? Please explain.

C.D.Reid

Aw, it may not have prevented this murder, but I challenge you to name one person who got the death penalty, and was executed, who committed another crime. Of any kind. That is major justification for the death penalty.

shiftless88

If they are held in jail for life they also do not commit another crime

C.D.Reid

Seriously shift? You really believe inmates don't beat the crap out of, or kill, other inmates while incarcerated? The fact is they do it often, especially in states that don't have the death penalty because they know they won't get anything worse than the life sentence that they already have. Wow, I can't believe you wrote that.....

Reader84

Life in jail means us taxpayers pay for him to live for free. No thanks. Public hangings would prevent most of these issues from even being thought of in the first place

C.D.Reid

I couldn't agree more, Reader. Public hangings for the locals to watch, and Pay For View for everyone else.

C.D.Reid

I sure wish the FNP interns would learn how to use Google Maps. The 6700 block of Mountaindale Road is NOT in Thurmont, it is only in the Thurmont zip code. They obviously get an address with a zip code, and automatically ass-ume that the address is within that town. Like a few years ago when they reported on something that happened in right in Mt. Pleasant, but said it was Walkersville simply because the address had a Walkersville zip code. Are they really that lazy to get on Maps to see where these incidents actually occur? Irresponsible "journalism" at best.

shiftless88

You should apply to be an intern, CD. In truth what is useful in these cases is to give people a sense of where this is. For example, I call the movie theater along 85 just south of I270 "Frederick". Technically it is not in the city limits but it is common use.

C.D.Reid

The guy lives in Mountaindale, not Thurmont. If the paper wanted "to give people a sense of where this is," they could have just as easily stated so. As I said, they called a house located in Mt. Pleasant in Walkersville, which is just plain laziness.

Awteam2021

They should have said Baltimore.🤷‍♂️ Closest major city.

C.D.Reid

You don't consider the second largest city in a state a major city, Aw?

shiftless88

Really; wouldn't want to sully the good name of Thurmont!

C.D.Reid

Exactly the kind of smartass crack one would expect from the likes of you, shift.

Greg F

Interns, by definition, are there to learn and often don't have experience. They use that internship to gain the experience. What gets me is when seasoned people can't get things right. At lease there's still a paper in this town.

Dwasserba

[thumbup]Yes. A community's identity becomes generic when there is no hometown paper.

KellyAlzan

Eckenrode’s social

Media page says “Thurmont”

C.D.Reid

His physical address is "Mountaindale." The article wasn't saying what he posted on "social media," it used his zip code to post misleading information as to where he lives.

KellyAlzan

Point being, he considers it to be Thurmont as well.

Sorry this upset you

C.D.Reid

"You missed my point entirely," Pb. (Sound familiar?) Why would it upset me? My point was accurate reporting, nothing else.

phydeaux994

DM (not CD), I mentioned Thurmont not just because the news said that but to point out that it’s not just down County that has problems as your side likes to point out but that these problems exist in up County too and everybody knows where Thurmont is but not Mountaindale. That’s all, nothing personal, your thin skin is exposed again.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@Phy

Butch burns easily, I've told him to wear sunscreen but he refuses so....but I do think he likes to show off his tan at times...

C.D.Reid

@PurplePickles aka Snowflake

Yeah, and you like to show your @$$ all the time, don't ya Snowy? I'm sure your mama is very proud of her little boy. Has your daddy been around lately to tell you too?

HappySeller2014

Another indvidual in northern party of Frederick County officials are concerned about regarding a potential mass casulty incident.

Yet we see our local government officials spend time recently on massive balloon release legislation. Forming workgroups to look at where we will be in 2050 regarding environmetal issues locally. Weathervane constipated duck logos created out of state. Salacious tales of sexual harrassment put out over social media the days after Christmas. Losing our Fredrick Keys.

Local Democrats NEED to focus on REAL issues impacting Frederick City and County citizens. Not encouraging political suicide by chasing all these non relevant ghosts and feel good stories and ZOOM meeting intrigue.

And I am a Democrat. Shame on us. Our local elected officials need start leading, not playing around. As I have shown in previous posts, I can name a dozen local issues needing urgent focus by our local elected officials. Add this article's issue to the pile...should they be looking more closely at the Thurmont environment, or is it just something in the water in the northern part of the county? Best to figure this out now rather than playing Don Quioxte chasing balloons, weathervanes and the year 2050.

Awteam2021

Not sure what a sexual harassment controversy in Frederick City has anything to do with a nut up in Thurmont?🤷‍♂️

HappySeller2014

Easy answer Aw. Where would you rather see your local elected officials spending their time? Beating each other up the day after Christmas with tales of salacious intrigue and ZOOM meetings and social media posts with accusers STILL YET to come forward, or to be looking into the welfare of our neighbors in the northern part of Frederick County, especially since this is the second time we have heard of mass casulty potential in relationship to Catoctin and Thurmont areas?

Easy answer for me. Same for balloons and weathervane constipated duck logos my friend.

Awteam2021

Access to guns is controlled by law under a number of federal statutes. In addition to federal gun laws, all state governments and some local governments have their own laws that regulate firearms. State laws supersede local laws and Federal laws supersede state laws . But no-way do Frederick City legislators have control over nuts in Thurmont or Mountaindale 🤷‍♂️. And in Maryland State law supersedes any local jurisdiction, that includes county legislation. Right? So you are right. Local legislators can control balloons and environmental precautions but not gun legislation. They don’t have that power.

NewMarketParent

@HappySeller2014

We have a sheriff who seems to speak the language of this guy and seems to keep getting elected by running on a platform of Faux News exposure. We have a sheriff who said the opioid crisis would take care of itself. I'm glad they caught the guy without there being a higher number of people murdered, but there is something very broken in our culture where this is far too normal.

Awteam2021

It’s fine to have grievances with local governance. Yes, you should hold them accountable for things they have control over, not things they don’t. Just sayin’. The notion that banning release of balloons and murder have any correlation is a reach, if not ridiculous.

C.D.Reid

He's not a nut "up in Thurmont," he's a nut in Mountaindale.

C.D.Reid

Where do you live, duffy? And would you like a newspaper writing that you have criminals living in your town that don't live there? I tell you what, why don't you just worry about what concerns you, and let others have their own concerns, instead of being such a PITA?

Greg F

Some people can work on multiple things at the same time. You sometimes take the things you can deal with short-term when you can and work the longer term ones ongoing. If you're so concerned, you go run for an office.

HappySeller2014

The operative word in your comment is "some" Greg.

And nope to holding office. I vote, so I have the right to critique. If I was part of this elected local circus I would go insane Greg. My current job, community involvement, volunteering, and rational use of my talents prevents me from joining this laughingstock. But I sure enjoy all the talk about balloons, 2050, salacious ZOOM meetings and our inability to keep the KEYS.

phydeaux994

This is the second young person from Thurmont who has been suspected of plotting an incident of mass murder. The first was a young lady who attended Catoctin High School and I believe is still incarcerated. Now a young man who murdered someone he knew over a gun deal or a car deal gone sour. Both possessed explosives and this young man had many firearms. Are they legal firearms? If not, where are they coming from? We have fortunately interrupted two mass murder incidents but unfortunately another young man died before it was discovered in this latest case. Much concern has been expressed here about violence in some down County High Schools but it seems we should be concerned about young people in all areas of our County. Is anything being done here to identify troubled youth or anybody for that matter? This problem of uncontrolled, easily gotten guns, legal or illegal, doesn’t just happen in Colorado or Georgia or Nevada or Connecticut, it can happen here.

neilyoungfan25

Just to clarify, Mr Eckenrode did not live in the town limits of Thurmont and he did not attend Catoctin High School, he went to a Frederick City High School, Thomas Johnson. The young man Mr Eckenrode is accused of killing also attended TJ High School. The Thurmont zip code covers a vast area, as far South to Resthaven Cemetery, about 10 miles outside of the Thurmont town limits. Mr Eckenrode actually lived around the Mountaindale area. And yes, we should be concerned about all troubled youth. This story is very concerning. I’ve read Mr Smith lost his life over a firearm

Reader84

Terrible tragedy! The family of the victim will be in our prayers. I believe Karma will come full circle to the coward that felt the need to take such a young mans life. Shame on the Thurmont boys family for raising such a foul human.

KellyAlzan

this is not the time to blame anyone's family.

neilyoungfan25

[thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

Greg F

Um....it kinda is, K....whatever it was they were doing as parenting obviously missed the boat on this one, as did the ones parenting the CO shooter that let him toy around with guns even knowing he was having serious mental issues for years. A 19 yr old with Tannerite and multiple weapons is not unheard of, but this kid likely had a 1000 ignored signs of what he was up to. Apple often doesn't fall far from the tree, and some parents are directly to blame for the hate and intent that their kids have. Look at Trump...he's a worse clone of his KKK father.

KellyAlzan

cant help but notice how the writer of the fnp story is careful to make use of the word "alleged".

But, when writing about Wilson being accused of whatever it is that MacSHAME is accusing him of the FNP writes as if accusers have been identified and are truly known to exist

Greg F

Kelly, are you living under a rock? "Alleged" is what the vast majority of media uses, both for legal protection from slander/libel and also (and sometimes unfortunately) because this nation does not find you guilty without a trial.

KellyAlzan

You totally missed my point.

PurplePickles aka L&M

Yeah he did..but Purple Pickles didn't. Just wanted you to know that. [wink][wink]

C.D.Reid

Instead of always telling people who correct your mistakes that they "totally miss your point," why don't you instead explain what your point is, Pb? Do you even know what your point is?

KellyAlzan

😎

Awteam2021

Just an idea: Maybe certain firearms should be outlawed from public consumption.

Boulder: AR-15, Orlando: AR-15, Parkland: AR-15, Las, Vegas: AR-15, Aurora, CO: AR-15, Sandy Hook: AR-15, Waffle House: AR-15, San Bernardino: AR-15, Midland/Odessa: AR-15, Poway synagogue: AR-15, Sutherland Springs: AR-15, Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

See a trend here?

gabrielshorn2013

Handguns kill far more.

phydeaux994

Are you suggesting that handguns should be banned too?? I don’t agree with you.

gabrielshorn2013

No, not at all phy. But by what criteria would a semi-automatic, whose action and functionality are no different than any other semi-auto hunting rifle, be made illegal?

Greg F

People with murderous intent kill more by whatever means is available to them.

NewMarketParent

@gabrielshorn2013

They kill more because there are more and they are way easier to handle. Also, it is easier to commit suicide with a handgun than an AR-15.

AR-15s seem to be far better suited for homicide.

gabrielshorn2013

@NMP

AR-15s are also highly accurate target rifles, and good for home defense if one so choses. Such rifles are also short, and the trigger is not that far away from the muzzle should one wish to commit suicide with it. However, that is not why they are the most popular selling rifle in the country right now.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@gabe

don't keep us in suspense...tell us why AR-15's are the best selling guns in the country right now....Me I'm thinking because someone somewhere is planning a mass shooting next week so...and for the life of me I cannot think of another reason why AR-15's are such a hot ticket item...but please don't keep it a secret.

gabrielshorn2013

Pickles,

I have no idea why it is, I am just reporting a fact. There are between 5 and 10 million AR-15-stye firearms currently in the US. Try googling it for yourself. For me, it was the accuracy factor and durability for competition.

gabrielshorn2013

Here is some information pickles:

"One of the most cited estimates of the number of assault-style rifles produced comes from the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the gun industry’s largest trade group. The NSSF does not use the term “assault rifle,” but tracks the production of “modern sporting rifles,” which typically refers to semiautomatic rifles like the AR-15. According to a 2015 report by the trade group, roughly one in 10 guns produced each year is a modern sporting rifle. In raw numbers, American gunmakers produced and imported 8.5 million such rifles between 1990 and 2012, and about one and two million annually every year since.

Do the math and it works out to between 15 and 20 million modern sporting rifles now in circulation. (An important note: The NSSF report includes weapons produced for law enforcement.)"

https://www.thetrace.org/2018/09/how-many-assault-weapons-in-the-us/

PurplePickles aka L&M

@gabe

AR-15s are also highly accurate target rifles, and good for home defense if one so choses. Such rifles are also short, and the trigger is not that far away from the muzzle should one wish to commit suicide with it. However, that is not why they are the most popular selling rifle in the country right now.

Do you see your above statement gabe? Do you see WHY I thought you were going to tell us the WHY? You weren't sounding like you were going to come back with an "I dunno" answer, but I don't know is a perfectly good answer too. Sorry for the misunderstanding.....I guess Google doesn't have all the answers?

Greg F

People will use whatever is convenient. There are many mass casualty events in other nations using knives, swords, and more.

NewMarketParent

@Greg F

I agree, but knives are far less efficient murder weapons.

Comment deleted.
PurplePickles aka L&M

Also Butch I can see further down you are agreeing with shiftless88's statement:

Yet another domestic terrorist. Good thing guns are so freely available to anyone with a pulse and $50...so that's good to see from you.

Comment deleted.
PurplePickles aka L&M

Hey Butch you are welcome in the sandbox any ole time...you'd be the unarmed one right? We'll be keeping an eye for you....

shiftless88

I do not know why people like Gabe here keep trying to act as if it is not the easiest thing in the world to pick up an unregistered firearm no matter what your background. The fact that so many people manage to do so is proof enough. You can just cross the Potomac to Virginia and buy a handgun off the street with no background check and no record of the transaction. It's not legal, but since there is no actual check required then there is nothing to stop it (it is as if you say it is illegal to carry a gun onto a plane but remove all the metal detectors and x-ray machines so no one can tell anyway).

gabrielshorn2013

Are you trying to say that criminals are willing to violate not only state laws on gun possession, but also Federal, shiftless? Why, I an absolutely shocked!!!

BTW, I never made such a claim, denying that it is possible to purchase a firearm illegally. It most certainly is, and those felons, when caught, should face the maximum Federal penalty. Don't you agree? The penalties for such actions should NOT be bargained down by prosecutors as they continually are. Don't you agree?

As stated below, that little transaction is worth 5 years for both the seller and buyer in Federal prison.

PurplePickles aka L&M

Gabe So you agree with shiftless88's first statement then: Yet another domestic terrorist. Good thing guns are so freely available to anyone with a pulse and $50.

because you were sounding like you weren't agreeing with that statement?

PurplePickles aka L&M

But now that we are all NOW agreeing with shiftless88's first statement:

Yet another domestic terrorist. Good thing guns are so freely available to anyone with a pulse and $50.

Let's move on and talk about how we can stop yet another domestic terrorist, and make guns not so freely available to anyone with a pulse and cash...

I'll go first:

Backgrounds checks...but yeah they don't stop people from buying guns illegally do they?

So who wants to go next?

gabrielshorn2013

I disagreed with a couple of parts in shiftless’ statement, pickles, although not the sentiment. First, using the term “domestic terrorist” is a bit of hyperbole in describing this low-life thug. Next, “anyone with a pulse and $50” cannot legally buy a firearm. Sure, there are illegal sales that could happen, like felons purchasing firearms, out of state sales, etc., and when caught, those that committed such felonies should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, not have their penalties used as a bargaining chip. The federal laws also say that multiple violations be served consecutively and not concurrently. That is why I provided the links to the Federal laws. Look them up and read them. It should only take a couple of minutes. They are pretty clear. Making additional laws, when the current laws are not enforced, is pointless. If you or shiftless have any suggestions, let’s hear them, keeping in mind the Second Amendment ramifications.

gabrielshorn2013

pickles @Mar 24, 2021 4:07pm

I'll pick up the conversation pickles. No background checks do not stop any illegal purchases between an unlawful seller and unlawful buyer. Those guns usually turn up sooner or later, and the one possessing such a firearm must face the consequences, as should the seller. However, those that fail a background check have committed a felony for each false answer they provide, and the penalty for each false answer is 5 years in prison to be served consecutively. Unfortunately, very few people are prosecuted for those felonies. Why not start there?

Next, registration. I would agree to a one-time free registration to purchase firearms, the same as we have to register to vote. Adding a fee is analogous to a "poll tax" for exercising a Constitutionally guaranteed right, which the SCOTUS has already determined to be unconstitutional.

Next?

gabrielshorn2013

I should have stated "...for each false answer they provided on ATF Form 4473"

Here is an example of that form.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

phydeaux994

gab, anyone of any age can get any gun for any purpose, anonymously. National Registration of all guns along with Universal Background Checks, is the only way of REDUCING gun violence. We all know that a very large percentage of gun violence is caused by kids too young to legally possess a handgun. Every gun should have the name of its owner as the person responsible for keeping it secure and out of the hands of the wrong people. There is absolutely NOTHING with a law requiring that that would deny anyone the Rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment as stated by Antonin Scalia in his majority opinion in the D.C. vs. Heller Supreme Court Ruling. We need proactive gun laws, laws to deny people, especially the young, access to illegal guns rather than the reactive laws now in place that obviously don’t work. There is not one law on the books that I am aware of, that STOPS the behavior addressed by the law. But we could save thousands of lives with reasonable limitations put on gun ownership.

gabrielshorn2013

@ phydeaux994 Mar 24, 2021 4:50pm

“gab, anyone of any age can get any gun for any purpose, anonymously.”

Sure, that is true if you also consider illegal purchases phy, but that could be said about anything; illegal drugs, alcohol, gambling, stolen cars, etc. A very large percentage of gun violence is perpetrated by repeat offenders who never seem to serve the mandatory sentences according to Federal law. Prosecuting them fully, giving consecutive sentences for violations, would put such offenders away for a long time, where they would not be a threat to law-abiding people. That’s really low-hanging fruit, but I am amazed at the resistance to enforcing laws already on the books. As to your idea on registration of each and every firearm, no that will never happen. Just look at New York with their mandatory “assault weapon” registrations. It ultimately had a 4% compliance rate! And that is in blue NY. See the links below:

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-safe-act-weapons-registry-numbers-released-article-1.2267730

https://hudsonvalleyone.com/2016/07/07/massive-noncompliance-with-safe-act/

phydeaux994

gab, I ONLY consider illegal purchases/possession. Because that’s the problem. Legal gun ownership is NOT the problem. But that’s why a person or business must be held accountable for allowing guns owned by them, manufacturer, wholesaler, retailer, or private citizen, to be used in criminal endeavors. All guns, old guns, new guns, any guns should have an owner responsible for their use. Just like vehicles of all types, or dynamite, or poison, or any number of goods whose purpose is regulated. That is Constitutional, there is nothing in the Second Amendment that prohibits documenting ownership of firearms. The argument that if a rogue Government knew who had guns they would knock on your door and confiscate them. That’s BS. If a rogue Government wanted to confiscate guns they would just say anyone caught with a firearm after ??? will be executed. This whole gun argument is BS.

gabrielshorn2013

Why didn't you address my points lhy?

phydeaux994

gab, because your points are irrelevant to the discussion of getting illegal, anonymous guns out of the hands of criminals. We’ve had this discussion before, many times. You keep harping on punishment as the solution to that problem when obviously it’s not. No laws on the books now address the problem of anyone of any age getting any gun for any purpose anonymously. Talk about that.

gabrielshorn2013

Irrelevant phy? How can you make that assumption when enforcement to the full extent has not been tried? Did you read any of the three articles I linked for you, especially the WaPo article about the lack of enforcement for those that lie on the 4473? Tens of thousands have been caught lying, but only 12 were prosecuted. Read the articles. Your proposal to register every firearm is not practical, so will never happen. Even if somehow such a law is passed, it will never be complied with, and there is no proving a transfer without it. So what do you do?

phydeaux994

Keep trying to change the minds of folks like you who consider thousands of avoidable deaths as just collateral damage to preserve the ability for anyone of any age to obtain any gun for any purpose, anonymously. That’s all we can do, despite fighting people who don’t care about unnecessary death that interferes with THEIR RIGHTS. GOD rest their souls.

shiftless88

Gabe; my "domestic terrorist" comment was wrt to the explosives found at his house.

gabrielshorn2013

@ phydeaux994 Mar 24, 2021 11:29pm

Cute speech phy, bravo! However, it is demonstrably false and you know it. We all want to keep firearms out of the hands of those who should not have them. We just disagree on how to get that done. Your proposal would never get enacted, and you clearly have not read any of the references I posted for you, not even the investigation by the Washington Post on the lack of prosecution of those that failed a background check because they lied on their 4473 NICS form. You can't even get folks to register their "assault weapons" in blue New York (a 4% compliance rate!), so how will you get everyone to register ALL firearms in the rest of the country? The song "High Hopes" comes to mind, so you just keep butting your head into that dam. Most people would recognize the futility of such acts, because all they get for it is a headache, and try something else. Maybe something that would work.

gabrielshorn2013

@ shiftless88 Mar 25, 2021 7:57am

What were the explosives found at the house shiftless? If GregF is correct, and it was "Tannerite", that is a legal explosive used in target shooting. Here is a link to that product's website:

https://tannerite.com/

phydeaux994

gab, your way doesn’t work and will never work because it’s just too easy to get around these laws. When a 15 y.o. kid can get a gun easier than he can get a drivers license there is something wrong. Punishing someone after they have killed someone isn’t a solution. Preventing someone from getting a gun before they kill someone is the ONLY way to reduce gun violence. You say my way won’t work. Many, many dangerous products are registered and regulated Nationally without difficulty the instant they leave the manufacturer. Every sale, every buyer, is documented. There is a paper trail for the life of the product. In the case of guns it wouldn’t be easy just because of the number out there. But it can be done and be effective over a period of time starting with holding the manufacturers and dealers accountable. And it’s Constitutional. Can it be done? Will it be done? Not as long as you and people like you keep it from being done. My cute speech is demonstrably true because that is the way things are as we speak. And Ted Cruz spouting the usual “Democrats want to take away guns from Law Abiding Citizens” which is demonstrably not true. I own a gun and I know I can keep it and get a hundred more if I want to. The fact is “anyone of any age can get any gun for any purpose, anonymously” and easily and the killing will continue and you don’t care. Cute that may be, but absolutely true.

gabrielshorn2013

Your specious statement at the end of your post is ridiculous, phy. I don't want firearms in the hands of anyone that is not supposed to have them. You continually (deliberately?) overlook the easy proposals using existing law in favor of those that have been proven to not work. NOBODY is going to register the firearms that they already own. NY tried it with "assault weapons", and got a 4% estimated compliance rate. I provided you with links to the stories from NY. You just keep butting that dam phy. Rather than continually repeating your slogan, why not suggest something that can be implemented and work?

shiftless88

The problem, Gabe is that there are SOOOOOOO many guns in circulation that it is easy peasy to pick one up. In countries where guns are not as plentiful and tightly regulated, they are also difficult to buy illegally. Why do you think no one uses fully automatic rifles to commit crimes these days? Because they are tightly regulated and therefore more valuable (and therefore more protected by their owners). It is so easy to get a gun without getting busted that in effect there are no gun laws. 100% registration of every gun purchase. 100% background checks. Test fire for the record of every gun before it leaves the factory (tracing bullets fired by that gun). Responsibility for your gun (if you did not report it stolen and it is used in a crime, you are liable).

gabrielshorn2013

Full- auto weapons are licensed because, according to SCOTUS, they are not covered by the 2A because they are not in common usage. As for registration, they only had 4% compliance in registering "assault weapons" in blue NY. What do you think the compliance rate will be in the rest of the country for every firearm? Ain't gonna happen. You can't prove a transfer without it. Test firing does nothing,  and has not solved a single case to date.

PurplePickles aka L&M

Agreed shiftless88...maybe he will re-think his answers? You know think outside of the box...but when you are defending the indefensible or trying to justify the unjustifiable you don't always hear what you are saying, or see what you are typing..I look forward to seeing his response to you....

gabrielshorn2013

My answers are citing the law pickles. What should I rethink? What is indefensible about citing the actual laws? What you and shiftless keep bringing up is a violation of Federal law. What do you propose to do that would change it? Please be specific.

MRS M

What Gabe might consider is that the lawless, the violent, the mentally ill and the murderous criminals intent on harm care not one tiny bit about a 5 year felony conviction. Silly defense, and silly trying to use that argument as a proof or deterrent to the purchase of illegal guns, anytime, anywhere, in our society today. Silly!

Most realize that tragically, it's the "Wild,Wild West" out there for illegal gun availability, and it's only upstanding gun owners who cower with the threat of that Federal felony.

gabrielshorn2013

Please read the rest of my responses Mrs. M. Citing the actual law is not silly. Of course criminals, by definition, don't care about the law. I already conceded that point, and it was actually my point all along. As I have asked the others, what would you propose to change that, keeping in mind the Second Amendment ramifications?

C.D.Reid

So shift, not that I'm interested in doing it but, hypothetically speaking, if it's so easy to go across the river and get a firearm for $50, how would you go about doing it? Keeping in mind that legitimate weapons dealers go by the laws, if you were a convicted felon how would you get one? You people keep saying how easy it is to do, I'm just wondering how you can back that claim up.

PurplePickles aka L&M

OMG Butch really? Do you not know the meaning of the word illegal? Think about that meaning of the word illegal and then think about your post and why I said OMG Butch..you are indeed the unarmed opponent, told you we'd keep an eye for you.

and are you seriously asking that what you are asking ???

shiftless88

CD: in Virginia you can legally buy a gun from an advertisement on the internet. Private gun sales are not regulated. Someone in Leesburg can offer a 9mm for sale on the internet, I can call them up and say "sure, I'll buy it", meet them in the Walmart parking lot and pay them cash. Technically he cannot sell it to me if I am not a VA resident but there is no requirement that he ask. So just look on the internet; no trace.

gabrielshorn2013

Shiftless, you have only provided a partial answer. Yes, internet sales ARE permitted in VA, IF AND ONLY IF the purchaser is from VA. Federal law (18 USC 922) states that all interstate sales must go through a FFL in the purchaser's home state, therefore the VA seller cannot legally transfer that firearm. State law cannot circumvent Federal law, and if you drive down to Leesburg to do the transaction, you will be committing a felony, punishable by a fine and 5 years in Federal prison. There may not be a requirement that he ask if you are a VA resident, but your MD license plate is a dead giveaway, and ignorance of the law is no excuse. You both get prosecuted.

shiftless88

Actually they JUST changed the laws in VA! Good for them. In PA, however, "When purchasing a long gun in a private sale, the buyer is exempt from obtaining a background check."

shiftless88

And just up the river a tad in WV, "Private sales of firearms, including handguns, are legal and do not require the seller to perform a background check"

threecents

Uggg.

gabrielshorn2013

That's the law in most of the US, not just WV.

sevenstones1000

My prayers for both families. Such a tragedy. Anything can be resolved, there is no need for murder.

KellyAlzan

I had a hunch a suspect would be in custody fast. I suspect cell phone played a major role in providing clues. Young people only communicate by cell phone. Us grown adults hate the phones, but they do play a role in solving crimes.

Business Owner

This is a very sad situation for both families. Just awful.

Brookhawk

It looks like it's a good thing they got this guy before he really popped. In these United States the next mass killing could be anywhere, even Thurmont.

shiftless88

Yet another domestic terrorist. Good thing guns are so freely available to anyone with a pulse and $50.

gabrielshorn2013

Where could you legally get a gun for $50, shiftless? That includes the mandatory background check? Mandatory fingerprinting? Mandatory classroom instruction?

Business Owner

Not in Maryland.

threecents

Good that MD has strict rules on purchasing and registering handguns, but what happens to all the old guns whose registrations lapse? Are they given to a son, a nephew, a friend, an acquaintance, an associate? Whether legally or not, as a practical matter, what happens to those guns?

gabrielshorn2013

Three, there are many, many legally owned handguns in Maryland that are not registered, nor will they ever be. Far more than those that are registered.

threecents

That was not my question.

gabrielshorn2013

Old guns are not registered three. Was that not your question?

threecents

Come on man, my question is what actually happens to guns legally purchased and no longer needed or wanted by the owner. Are they often given away, sold, lost, stolen, etc? What happens to them - whether legal or not? Do these guns that were ORIGINALLY purchased legally eventually become guns used in crimes? If they are then there is a problem on the legal purchasing end - whether or not there is a problem at the punishing end after the crime has already taken place.

Greg F

Every one I own went through a background check, but were not required to be registered. They will stay that way. One thing that is concerning is the black powder exemption, which is cash and carry so long as you are of age. No background check, nothing. Just show you're 18...and that includes the revolvers.

gabrielshorn2013

@Greg F Mar 25, 2021 8:41am

Agreed GregF, and the same here. I don't understand the black powder firearm exemption either, although I own many myself. However, very few have ever been used in any criminal activities. You may also purchase black powder propellant and Tannerite, both explosives, over the counter. Since I also target shoot and hunt with black powder firearms, I keep a couple of pounds of black powder in my powder safe.

gabrielshorn2013

@threecents Mar 25, 2021 2:05am

OK, I’ll answer those questions. Are they given away? Some are. Sold? Some are. Lost? Maybe, but unlikely. Stolen? Some are. What happens to them? They end up in someone else’s hands. …do they become guns used in crimes? Unfortunately, some do. But the vast majority does not. So, what would you propose? Registration of all currently owned firearms will never happen. Read the references I have already provided, three.

threecents

What would I propose?! I am not a gun guy, so I don't know, and I am not part of the problem. Also, my questions were mostly rhetorical. I just wanted to see if you would do some more mansplaining, and sure enough...

gabrielshorn2013

So, you're a button pusher three? Good to know.

threecents

Of course I am a button pusher, and so are you.

threecents

Better to be a button pusher than a trigger pusher.

gabrielshorn2013

🤣🤣🤣 My, aren't you funny three! How old are you? Grow up.

phydeaux994

At a gun show from a private seller. Or online from a private seller.

gabrielshorn2013

For fifty bucks phy? You might get some non-functional piece of junk that was going to be thrown in the trash anyway. You also still need to have all of the other conditions that I mentioned above. Try walking out of a gun show with a firearm, without complying with them. You'll walk out of said gun show in handcuffs if you try.

shiftless88

Virginia

gabrielshorn2013

I should have also added that online sales must go through a licensed firearms dealer in the purchaser's home state if the sale is from out of state, the same as a face-to-face out of state firearm sale. This requirement is federal law, and may be found in 18 USC 922. The penalty for illegal transactions, such as illegal interstate sales, are found in 18 USC 924. Buying a firearm online without using a FFL is the same as meeting some guy in an out of state parking lot to purchase a firearm and is a felony according to Federal law, and can get you five years.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/924

gabrielshorn2013

Legally, by a Maryland resident, shiftless? That is an illegal firearm sale according to both 18 USC 922 3 for the purchaser, and 18 USC 922 5 for the purchaser. Both the seller and the buyer are subject to fines and 5 years in prison for such a purchase. That goes for gun stores, gun shows, or private purchases.

Awteam2021

Gabe, it sounds like you are in favor of background checks for all gun transfers and purchases, family, friends, whoever. Very liberal of you.

There is no national law that prevents someone from giving firearms to a friend or family member in the same state, but there are some state laws regarding it. For example, states such as California, New York, and Colorado require you to transfer the firearm through a local firearms retailer or FFL, where a background check will be conducted on the person you want to give the gun to. In some states, even the transfer of an old family heirloom can require going through an FFL. But open market or online purchases avoid this obstacle. Yes, Maryland is one of the more stricter states but is surrounded by states more lenient.

gabrielshorn2013

Well aw, if you think that, you haven't been paying attention. Doing a mandatory background check before lending any of my family members one of my firearms to go hunting, or to go to the range is absurd. However, I would not sell one to a stranger without a background check, including having them complete a 4473, and providing me with ID. Not that I would consider participating with any in my collection. Just like a bag of golf clubs, each of my firearms serves a particular purpose. As far as those other states, it's not enforceable if the previous owner is not registered, and as I told phy, there is an extremely low probability that even with a Federal law, that folks will comply. New York's mandatory registration of "assault weapons" is a prime example. There was an estimated 4% compliance in blue NY. Just imagine what all the red flyover red states compliance levels will be.

If you want to see a difference, prosecute firearm offenses to the full extent of Federal law, including prosecuting those that lie on their BATF Form 4473. It is extremely rare that anyone does that. That's low hanging fruit. For reference:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/11/lying-buy-gun-fear-not-feds/

https://www.capitalgazette.com/politics/ac-cn-background-checks-20190625-story.html

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-18-440.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi87tPNm8rvAhXiQ98KHWakBfMQFjAHegQIChAC&usg=AOvVaw1n_Z7EkWE7UvBzGYbF4P6J

PurplePickles aka L&M

Illegal guns do have a way of traveling over state lines without anyone knowing until...something like this happens so...hopefully you realize that right?

gabrielshorn2013

Oh, I absolutely agree with that Pickles. So, how are you going to stop it? Please be specific. Please see my other responses regarding the law and penalties.

Awteam2021

I can imagine you can buy a gun for $50, when the seller could get more. But if someone’s hard up for money and willing to sell the weapon to a say called “friend” or relative, that would be totally legal. Right? But, I’m not sure how relevant that is when most of your mass shootings were done with legally purchased assault weapons. Would you like a list?

Funny though... Do you remember when people thought you couldn’t test everybody in America for the coronavirus and now our goal is to vaccinate everyone?

The school where my wife teaches, everyone is tested for the virus on Tuesday and the results are back on Thursday. Any students and/or faculty testing positive are quarantine by Friday.

I’m betting we can address this gun violence plague too. If we want to. It’s much over due. Really, who hunts with an assault weapon or needs one to protect their person, and is not mental?

PurplePickles aka L&M

So he couldn't have gone up to PA got a gun for fifty bucks and brought it back to Maryland? Last time I drove out of state no one checked my car when I came back for guns? So really he could have gotten that gun from anywhere right? So shiftless is correct guns are freely available for anyone that has a pulse and cash...

gabrielshorn2013

Sure they can, and it is a felony for both the buyer and seller according to Federal law (USC 922 section 3, and 922 section 5) and subject to a 5 year prison term for doing so. I provided the link to the actual laws above.

PurplePickles aka L&M

And you think this dude was worried about the laws..LOL Also who do you think is out enforcing these laws ????

gabrielshorn2013

Thank you for finally agreeing with me pickles. Criminals, by definition, don't care about the law. So what is your proposal? Please be specific, and keep in mind the Second Amendment ramifications.

PurplePickles aka L&M

I was never actually disagreeing with you Gabe ...I was agreeing with shiftless88 and it seemed like you weren't agreeing with him but now you are.....that guns are so easily available and that anyone with a pulse and cash can get a gun...so I'm glad you are agreeing with shiftless88 because I think you were the holdout?

shiftless88

Gabe; without registration who is to say where the person bought it and who they bought it from? Saying something is illegal to transfer but then not requiring any paperwork to do the transfer is basically useless.

gabrielshorn2013

You are exactly correct shiftless. I have already shown phy that any attempt at registration is a waste of time. If blue NY only has a 4% compliance rate in registering "assault weapons", what do you think the compliance rate for the rest of the country will be for all firearms? I will agree to registering in order to exercise my 2A right, just like I have to register to exercise my right to vote. Any attempt to register all firearms is DOA, especially if there is a fee attached to such registration (which would be unconstitutional). Why not go after the low-hanging fruit first? Prosecute some of the 70,000 people who failed a background check because they lied on their form 4473 NICS form required to do a background check. I provided the links to the stories previously in this thread (look for the one from the WaPo). Furthermore, the majority of firearms crimes are committed by repeat offenders whose firearms charges were negotiated away. Those firearm crime penalties are steep, and must be served consecutively, yet they are not prosecuted. Why is that? Anyone found with a stolen weapon may be charged with possession of stolen goods, again, rarely prosecuted. Why?

JerryR

RIP Mason Smith!!

gabrielshorn2013

Great job FCSO!

So, what was the connection between the victim and the perp?

bosco

Great work by law enforcement!

Bad boys bad boys. Whatcha gonna do whatcha gonna do when they come for you?

Another PhD in criminology on his way to the big house.

olefool

I think we're going to find that there is much, much more to this fiasco than is being published now. Guns, bombs, explosives, murder.. sounds a lot like Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, or those types of outliers. Trust the Blues to get to the bottom of what's really going on here.

Greg F

The guy doesn't look like the brightest bulb in the box, that's obvious.

Greg F

Here is the more to the story. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/missing-person-case-leads-authorities-to-thwart-potential-mass-casualty-incident/ar-BB1eVOs7?li=BBnb7Kz

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