Chuck Jenkins Sheriff

Frederick County Sheriff Chuck Jenkins in his office at the Law Enforcement Center.

An immigrant rights advocacy group on Thursday filed a federal lawsuit against Frederick County, Frederick County Sheriff’s Office, Sheriff Chuck Jenkins and two of his deputies for a 2018 traffic stop that they say was based on racial profiling and led to the illegal detention of a Latina woman.

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The Resources for Immigrant Support and Empowerment (RISE) Coalition of Western Maryland filed the lawsuit in U.S. District Court for the District of Maryland with support from the American Civil Liberties Union of Maryland on behalf of Sara Haidee Aleman Medrano, who was pulled over by Deputy Brian M. Mothershead at 7:45 p.m. July 7, 2018, according to the lawsuit. The lawsuit alleges that the sheriff’s office not only violated Medrano’s Fourth and 14th Amendment rights against unlawful seizure, detention and equal protection, but also her rights under the Civil Rights Act of 1964 against racial discrimination.

Medrano, who is in the U.S. illegally and is not fluent in English, asked for a Spanish-speaking deputy shortly after she was pulled over and Deputy Randy C. Barrera arrived a short time later to tell her she was pulled over for driving with an inoperable taillight, according to the lawsuit and Nick Steiner, an attorney with the ACLU who will represent Medrano.

Barrera then asked Medrano about her citizenship status, telling her that she had an “immigration problem” and that officials from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement were coming to pick her up, Steiner said.

“That is an inquiry into her immigration status and an inquiry into whether she has any immigration-related cases, which is completely out of the sheriff’s office’s jurisdiction,” Steiner said.

While the sheriff’s office participates in the 287(g) program, in which ICE trains select sheriff’s office personnel to inquire about the immigration status of anyone booked into the county’s adult detention center and begin deportation proceedings if appropriate, the program was limited to the detention center in 2012, meaning patrol deputies are barred from asking about individuals’ immigration status, according to previous stories published by The Frederick News-Post.

Phone calls and messages left for Jenkins were not returned as of 7 p.m. An email was also sent to Jenkins and Taylor Clarke, a spokeswoman for the sheriff’s office, around 1 p.m. Thursday.

Clarke responded to the email around 3 p.m. confirming receipt of The News-Post’s inquiries and saying that the sheriff’s office would “provide appropriate comments at a later time.” After requesting a comment by 6 p.m., The News-Post did not hear back from the sheriff’s office.

The lawsuit goes on to describe how, even after an ICE agent called by Mothershead refused to drive to the scene, Medrano remained detained there until 8:48 p.m., when Barrera handed her a warning about her taillight and advised her to obtain an immigration attorney.

Later that evening, Medrano and her daughter, who was in the vehicle with her at the time of the stop, checked her taillights and found both were working properly, according to the lawsuit.

“Sara Medrano was harassed by police under an illegal and improper traffic stop. It was not true that she had a broken tail light. And they asked about her immigration status, which police claim they do not do outside of the county jail,” said RISE member John Punchak, in a statement attached to the ACLU’s press release Thursday. “Sara Medrano was the victim of improper, illegal, unconstitutional, and racist policing practices sanctioned by Frederick County Sheriff Chuck Jenkins.”

Frederick County Attorney John Mathias, named in the lawsuit as a representative of the county, disagreed with Punchak’s assessment, saying his initial reading of the case was much more cut and dried.

“Ms. Medrano was pulled over for a taillight problem, she then asked the sheriff’s deputy for a Spanish-language interpreter, the sheriff’s office provided that, they issued her a warning and she went on her way,” Mathias said when reached for comment. “Her complaint is that she thinks that took too long ... [but] she was never at the detention center, she was never taken anywhere, she was on the side of the road in her car while the deputies were there.”

When asked about the RISE Coalition and the ACLU’s assertions that the deputies’ questioning Medrano’s citizenship violated her rights, Mathias said he had only just received the filing via email and would need more time to review the case with additional counsel before making in-depth comments.

Steiner described Medrano’s experience as part of a pattern of what he called unlawful conduct by county sheriff’s deputies that stemmed from Jenkins’ management of the agency.

“Sheriff Jenkins, through his entire tenure as sheriff, has set himself up to be this hardliner on immigration and throughout the years has been very vocal about his racism and xenophobia toward immigrants while equating immigration with crime. ... That is exactly what the RISE Coalition has been trying to fight against,” Steiner said.

Along with as-yet unspecified compensatory damages to Medrano, the coalition’s lawsuit also calls for some form of permanent, enforceable prohibition against the sheriff’s office engaging in any form of immigration enforcement.

Follow Jeremy Arias on Twitter: @Jarias_Prime.

Jeremy Arias is the Frederick city and government reporter for The Frederick News-Post.

(145) comments

HappyPlace77

Here’s a quote from another department on protocol for working with ICE: “The written policy now requires officers to review the basis for warrants and contact a supervisor if they cannot determine whether it is a civil or criminal matter. Individuals should not be held up by police for more than an hour as officers look into the origin of a warrant, the video tells officers.” (https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/pr-georges-police-put-it-in-writing-officers-cant-cooperate-with-ice-for-noncriminal-deportations/2019/07/09/92fadbe0-a255-11e9-b732-41a79c2551bf_story.html%3foutputType=amp) I would bet a lot of money that this is exactly what happened during this stop. Shame on FNP for such irresponsible and biased reporting. They make it seem like she was taken away in handcuffs and questioned in an interrogation room for hours. She was pulled over during a routine traffic stop, the deputy more than likely discovered a flag on her record and tried to 1. Determine what to do with ICE and 2. Explain it to her. She asked for a Spanish speaking deputy, who explained it to her and advised her to contact her lawyer to fix it. This can’t happen in a 15 minute stop. Of course it is going to take a little while, but at the end of the day she was pulled over and let go with a warning.

KellyAlzan

The newspaper is merely reporting what was told to them. The newspaper made it clear that calls were not returned From fcso. Also, ICE’s system clearly identifies civil vs criminal. Many ICE agents have been intentionlly knowingly detaining immigraNts on civil warrants.

awteam2000

Tell it to the judge... The deputy can ask for a license and registration, not citizenship status. End of story. It’s time for Jenkins to ride off in the sunset.

gabrielshorn2013

Where is that written aw? Is there a link to Maryland or Federal law that says as much? As stated earlier, officers can ask any question they want, even lie to a suspect in pursuit of evidence. They just cannot arrest based on immigration status. The driver in this case asked for a Spanish speaking deputy, which took time to obtain. Was she arrested? No, she was released to continue her travel. The alleged offense here was that she was detained on the side of the road because of her immigration status. She wanted a Spanish speaking deputy, thus causing the delay.

KellyAlzan

You really are in need of some law classes if you’re going to participate in the comments here.

gabrielshorn2013

As are you Kelly. Favorite and chief commentator, diesel mechanic now amateur legal scholar? Yeah, right. What’s your damage kelly?

gabrielshorn2013

BTW kelly, maybe you should read the following from the ACLU:

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/stopped-by-police/#ive-been-pulled-over-by-the-policy?

The officer can ask the question, and everyone has the right to remain silent.

mrnatural1

On Jul 12, 2019 8:39pm, gabrielshorn2013 wrote:

"Again, agreed mrnatural. Although the following comments are off topic, anyone trained as a first responder knows that helping/rescuing someone in trouble must be done safely. That is why you put your mask on before helping anyone else in an airplane emergency. How many times have we heard about a well-meaning rescuer losing their life, along with the original victim, while attempting a rescue. Noble, yes. Smart, hardly. Our natural resources are being depleted, but it seems that no one notices, or doesn't care. Case in point is the Ogallara Aquifer in America's breadbasket. Corn, wheat, cows, and pig farming all depend on this resource, but is is quickly being drained much faster than it is being replenished (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer). What does the US do when our major source of food cannot support our current population, let alone additional people? Additionally, as 2020 Presidential candidate Andrew Yang points out, 50% of today's low-skilled jobs will not exist in 25 years. What are we to do with all of the displaced labor? Immigration law must consider future effects of continued population growth."

Great analogy gabriel. Before we can help others we need to take care of ourselves.

The Ogallala aquifer is a very good example of the harm caused by too many people. In this case unfortunately it's 'out of sight, out of mind'. The water in the Ogallala took thousands of years to accumulate, so when it's gone, it's gone for a long, long time. If it were an above ground reservoir there would be more alarm. As it is, it will most likely be sucked dry, crops will wither and die, farms and homes will be foreclosed on, and a large amount of our farmland will be all but worthless. 27% of the irrigated land in the entire United States lies over the aquifer (from the Wiki entry).

I'm glad you brought up the issue of automation. That will continue to add to our unemployment rate. We will have to care for millions more unemployed people. We need to gradually and voluntarily reduce our population if we want to preserve our way of life.

vodalone

At this rate Jenkins will cost this county so much money his department will be riding on horseback and using water guns.

mrnatural1

Good visual vodalone! [beam]

KellyAlzan

And I think this is why Trumpkins won by that whopping 3%. The people have opened their eyes

gabrielshorn2013

Why such constant vitriol against the Sheriff kelly? This is clearly personal for you.

KellyAlzan

Trying to control me with what I post? Trumpkins is an uneducated sheriff. And the Santos lawsuit speaks volumes. Trumpkins is a liar. And a bigot. And a liability to county tax payers

gabrielshorn2013

Couldn't care less what you post Kelly. However the monotony of your posts suggests a personal interest.

KellyAlzan

Shows your lack of intelligence. Some of us are fully aware of what goes on. No different than a corporation. Or a local moose lodge. Small community where everyone either knows everyone or where we know people that know. If you’re not upset then you’re not paying attention. Or, ignorant on the matter.

gabrielshorn2013

Wow, go straight to making a personal attack. Intelligent people discuss ideas. People of low intelligence talk about others. My question was a simple one, and was not personal. You clearly have a personal grudge against the Sheriff as evidenced by your constant personal attacks against the man. I merely asked what it was. If that question bothers you, grow some skin.

KellyAlzan

No personal grudge at all. That’s where you’re wrong. But what does it matter? Cause then you come back and say “do too”. The man is a horrible horrible public leader. As unqualified as all get-out. The shooting of the dog in taneytown, by has personal friend whom he gave a job to who had domestic charges on his case search file. The Ethan Saylor incident. The Roxie Santos incident. And there’s internal stuff that’s been going on as well. I purposely refrain from writing anything about the internal issues because Trumpkins will know who’s been sharing. I don’t like ba’lane young or Billie shreeves. I don’t like Donald trump, Horrible person, horrible. They’re all on the same list as Trumpkins. Nothing at all personal.

i believe your real issue is that I clearly am fully aware of what goes on involving the FCSO, and the truth hurts :)

enjoy the weekend. See ya on the next FCSO / immigrant newstory :)

PS - SANTOS WON, Trumpkins LOST :)

gabrielshorn2013

Thank you for providing your extensive list of grievances Kelly. It must be a great burden to hold onto all of that hate. Hate just corrodes the vessel that carries it. As for your other comments:

i believe your real issue is that I clearly am fully aware of what goes on involving the FCSO, and the truth hurts

good for you. I really couldn’t care less what happens in the FCSO. Just as long as they enforce the laws, pull over speeders, fine those driving while on their phone, etc., I’m fine with them.

enjoy the weekend. See ya on the next FCSO / immigrant newstory

probably, but my interest go far beyond this issue.

PS - SANTOS WON, Trumpkins LOST

yep, two deputies made a mistake, and the mistake will be corrected and paid for. The case is still in litigation, and nobody knows what that payment will be. Not even you.

KellyAlzan

I was reviewing my notes from back when the first time Sherf Trumpkins ran for Sherf.

his exact words:

”I am going to go after the ALIENS”

what he failed to mention is that he was also going to get the “aliens” large sums of money as well......

jerseygrl42

so this idiot breaks the law by coming here w/o permission and then is stopped for a traffic violation and demands a spanish speaking Deputy...and of course the anti American CLU rushes in to protect the criminal...this country is going to hell due to the lefties obstructionists who only wish to buy votes so as to get re-elected ...and 22.5 Million illegals are costing the taxpayers $160 Billion every year ....how much infra-structure could we rep[air with that ....but instead it is wasted on criminals..Thank GOD for people like Sheriff J who continue to protect the citizens and the law of the land to the best of their ability....

threecents

Jersey, Would your head explode if you realized that illegal immigrants actually make a net contribution to the economy?

BunnyLou

The contribution they make does not overcome the burden on the country. They are a drain and are only here because people like yourself and your puppeteers need a permanent underclass plus you hope that they will overwhelm the welfare system throwing this country into a downward spiral. This is a page right out of commie playbook.

phydeaux994

Who in this Administration “LOVES” commies, is a “WANNABE” commie, believes everything commies tell him, tries to have a commie “RED SQUARE MILITARY MIGHT PARADE”. The “commie playbook” is the only thing he reads.

gabrielshorn2013

Nonsense phydeaux. And before you go off on your tangent of what I disagree with, your entire statement is nonsense.

gabrielshorn2013

Says Kelly Q Alzan, who apparently thinks it’s OK to employ illegal immigrants to boost their bottom line. Sorry Kelly, you cannot continually put on the blinders because it benefits your company. This country cannot absorb a continuous flow of illegal immigration, due to the indisputable limit on resources.

KellyAlzan

So you just got done saying “intelligent people discuss ideas”. Never. Have I ever. Written. That’s it’s “ok, to employ illegal immigrants”. Never. Some of my FNP Commentor fans have taken it upon themselves to declare that I “think” that. Another inaccurate comment from you LOL

gabrielshorn2013

If I have misstated your position, apologies.

Comment deleted.
KellyAlzan

They most certainly do. Illegals pay income taxes. Many Americans do not. Most illegal immigrants pay more in income taxes than Donald trump. Illegals buy cars, food, etc etc, just like anyone else.

Comment deleted.
jsklinelga

burgessdr I stopped reading the comments after reading yours. What is the sense. I suspect your accusations are false as you admitted you have no proof. "Chuckie doesn't like brown people. Doesn't matter whether they are illegal, legal residents, or US citizens. Chuckie says they are lazy, dirty, smelly." I should be surprised that this comment was not immediately taken down but I am not. Social media and corporate media are filled with these types of outlandish statements.

Comment deleted.
corgikid

No illegals, that's all. There is nothing racist about it. If you don't report, then we will deport.

Dwasserba

Great. Sued again.

richardlyons

The latest in a long line of Bubba suits.

Lev928

"Medrano, who is in the U.S. illegally ..." CASE CLOSED.

KellyAlzan

Wrong!!!!

fredcosheriff

[thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

jerseygrl42

exactly!

shiftless88

jersey; the longer you go without citing a study about that ridiculous dollar number the more we know you just pulled it out of your a...

vodalone

The way things are going, Jenkins has a 0% chance of winning the next election if he even makes it that far without having to resign to all the law suits.

corgikid

And then Frederick will be a sanctuary for illegals sucking the taxpayers dry. Congratulations. I hope they all move next door to you.

vodalone

Yea yea, same stuff FNC repeats on a daily and nightly loop to keep you scared and in panic. Plenty of counties in MD and across the nation don't have 287(g) program and a crazy racist cowboy sheriff and are doing much better than FC.

sdm817

That's what they said last election. Guess what?

yogib

We have a Sheriff who is now afraid to show his face because he knows his racist attitudes have become unpopular. (He cancelled his annual 287g hearing because, he could no longer face the community, and now he thinks he has the County Council and executive are so scared yet of his waning political power that they too are doing their best to hide what has been happening to our community. It is time to stand up to racism, hate, and white supremist rhetoric.

Samanthapowers

[thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

KR999

That’s nothing but an all out lie. He is not required to have those 287g meetings but did so to inform the public about the program. And in both of the two meetings he held, there were too many rude, loud mouth jerks (many from MoCo) who insisted on making a scene and turning the meeting into a political spectacle instead of acting like decent citizens. All to promote their agenda of allowing illegal aliens to remain here. It’s because of THEIR repulsive, childish behavior that he decided to discontinue the meetings. He has always held his head up and faced the community and will continue to do so. Unlike so many here, he doesn’t need to hide behind a computer screen and post comments under a false name. Get my drift, yogib?

phydeaux994

KR999, do you even know anything about the 287(g) Program that the Sheriff runs here. It is NOT a Law Enforcement Program. It is a baby-sitting service that holds illegal alien lawbreakers in the Detention Center until ICE comes to pick them up. The FCSO gets paid for this service. Whether it is profitable is disputed by some.

KR999

Yes, I’m very familiar with the program. And if you admit that it holds ILLEGAL ALIEN LAWBREAKERS for ICE, why do you call it a “baby-sitting service?” And why shouldn’t the FCSO be reimbursed, whether it’s profitable or not?

KellyAlzan

Ponder this:

Just imagine having to wake up in that culdesac in lewistown having to go to work knowing that you single handedly made it possible that Roxie Santos no longer has a need to own an alarm clock. Sense of pride because you made a positive difference in someone’s life :)

Comment deleted.
morel hunter

Why do you feel the need to continually follow and denigrate KellyAlzan comments? Do you not have something better to do?

KR999

Because Kelly Q. Alzan constantly makes unsubstantiated claims and finds the need to repost select comments over and over and over again and I enjoy calling her out to illustrate those facts.

Comment deleted.
Dwasserba

It was accurate.

sdm817

Same stupid legal system that paid someone because their coffee was hot. I'm so glad the face of the court is changing. Too many liberal judges making up laws as they go.

mrnatural1

On Jul 11, 2019 @ 11:49pm, phydeaux994 wrote:

It’s called profiling which is illegal. That’s how Jenkins got in trouble in the Santos case. That’s when you see a Hispanic looking driver and make up a reason to pull them over. “Driving while Brown”, similar to “Driving while Black”.

~

We're talking about two different things -- profiling, and routine police work.

Profiling is clearly wrong. If that's what happened n this case, then the FCSD deserves to be sued.

I wrote (in part): "I'm not clear on why cops are (apparently) not supposed to ask about immigration status." Asking questions during a routine stop is not profiling. Cops ask questions all the time -- it's in their DNA. None of us were there, or know what the deputy was thinking. Based on the article, it sounds like Ms. Medrano's car had a faulty tail light. Could the deputy have been lying about that? Anything is possible, but it would be an incredibly stupid thing to do since everything is captured on video. Also, almost every driver does something technically wrong every so often. The deputy could have come up with another reason to pull Ms. Medrano over. There's no need to lie.

Going on the assumption that the tail light was faulty, and that alone was the reason for the stop, then it was legit. If that was the case, then I don't see why the deputy could not ask about Ms. Medrano's immigration status -- especially if her license is the newer type that indicates the person may be in the country illegally, and/or when the deputies ran her soundex something came back that indicated she may not be here legally.

Profiling is clearly wrong. My question is, assuming a stop is valid, shouldn't the officer be able to ask any questions s/he wants to ask? There's no need for the driver to answer, so there would seem to be no reason for questions about immigration status to be off limits.

KellyAlzan

Keep in mind, that when the Santos case initially came out, the FCSO changed their story.

gabrielshorn2013

Two completely different circumstances Kelly. One was apparently "eating lunch while Hispanic", while the other was for a traffic stop, and the driver showing a driver's license showing that she was an undocumented alien. Running her information confirmed it. Police are allowed any questions they want in the course of an investigation. Was she arrested as in the Santos case? No, she was free to go after the, albeit lengthy, traffic stop. So where is the illegality?

mrnatural1

Kelly, I haven't come to any conclusions (it's impossible at this point) -- just suggesting possibilities. I will say that it seems highly unlikely that a deputy would knowingly make a false statement about something that can be disproved with official police video.

That said, assuming the tail light was defective, the deputy still could have been profiling -- but that would be hard to prove. That gets into his thoughts and intent. Unless he gets up on the stand in court and admits that he was profiling I can't see how that can be proven.

phydeaux994

mrnatural, you can google the Maryland Law that addresses this issue.

mrnatural1

Some general observations:

* The vast majority of immigrants (legal or not) are decent people who only want to better their situation and perhaps send some money to their family back home.

* If we're honest, most of us would admit that if we were in their situation we would do the same thing (sneak into the U.S.).

* To the extent people are angry about illegal immigration, they should be mad at the politicians and their corporate puppet masters who continue to allow it.

That said:

* America is overpopulated and has been for about 100 years. The scientific consensus is that our population is DOUBLE the sustainable level.

* We are using resources faster than they can be replaced.

* While "unemployment" is currently low, that's due in part to how employment and unemployment are defined. For example, those who have given up looking for work are not counted. Many people are working 2-3 low wage jobs without benefits. So yeah, they're "employed" but... The fact is, pay is based on supply and demand. More potential employees = lower pay for all, and higher unemployment (and social services expenses).

* Our national debt is over $22 trillion. That's about $183,000 per taxpayer. See: https://www.usdebtclock.org/

* All good, caring people want to help others. For the reasons listed above, we simply cannot throw open our borders and yell "Come on down!" (or up, as the case may be). That might make people feel good in the short term, but doing that is the equivalent of inviting more people to board a ship that is already over capacity and taking on water. Sooner or later, everyone drowns. Excessive population is already destroying our country. We should gradually, voluntarily reduce, stop, and reverse population growth -- not intentionally add more and more people.

* The fact is, the most efficient way to help people is to help them where they live, using foreign aid, the Peace Corps, and non-profits like Habitat for Humanity and Doctors without Borders.

That is the moral, "Christian" way to help the greatest number of people, while protecting what's left of America.

gabrielshorn2013

My thoughts exactly mrnatural. [thumbup]

morel hunter

Great post. I just have one thing to add: It is a fact that no 2020 Democratic candidate has said they support open borders.

KellyAlzan

And why not? We’ve always had open borders.

mrnatural1

Thanks morel hunter. The candidates may not come out and say, "When I am elected president, we will offer free transportation; food; clothing; shelter; education; and health care to anyone on Earth who wants to come to America", but they clearly support relaxed immigration laws and more immigration.

Once again, I have nothing against immigrants. Members of my immediate family are married to immigrants. My sole concern is overpopulation. America (and the rest of the planet) is severely overpopulated. In our case, most of our population growth is a result of immigration.

If it were 1919, or 1819, it would be different -- but it's 2019 and we really are beyond full. Our resources are being depleted. Aquifers that took thousands of years to fill are being sucked dry, farmland is being paved over at a rate of 175 acres every hour (https://farmland.org/about/whats-at-stake/), etc, etc.

I know that most people & candidates who are pro-immigration are well-intentioned, but we must protect what's left of America for future generations. It may be a nice "feel-good" gesture for politicians to support more immigration, but it is incredibly short-sighted and irresponsible. The best way to help the greatest number of people is through foreign aid -- helping them improve the country they live in.

gabrielshorn2013

Again, agreed mrnatural. Although the following comments are off topic, anyone trained as a first responder knows that helping/rescuing someone in trouble must be done safely. That is why you put your mask on before helping anyone else in an airplane emergency. How many times have we heard about a well-meaning rescuer losing their life, along with the original victim, while attempting a rescue. Noble, yes. Smart, hardly. Our natural resources are being depleted, but it seems that no one notices, or doesn't care. Case in point is the Ogallara Aquifer in America's breadbasket. Corn, wheat, cows, and pig farming all depend on this resource, but is is quickly being drained much faster than it is being replenished (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer). What does the US do when our major source of food cannot support our current population, let alone additional people? Additionally, as 2020 Presidential candidate Andrew Yang points out, 50% of today's low-skilled jobs will not exist in 25 years. What are we to do with all of the displaced labor? Immigration law must consider future effects of continued population growth.

gabrielshorn2013

Typo. Ogallala, not Ogallara.

shiftless88

Could you please post up links to this scientific consensus that the US has been overpopulated for 100 years and that we are double the sustainable level? In fact those two items are contradictory anyway.

gabrielshorn2013

shiftless, no they are congruent. You are overpopulated by being above the sustainable level. We have apparently been above that level for 100 years. We have now surpassed 2x the sustainable level.

mrnatural1

Thanks gabriel.

shiftless, while people argue about the precise number, the consensus of the scientific community (the same scientists who are warning us about GW and Climate Change) is that the *sustainable* capacity of the U.S. is about 150 to 175,000,000 people -- about half of our current population. The U.S. population was a bit over 100M in 1920, still below capacity. By 1950 -- just 30 years later -- we were "full", with over 160M people.

Since 1950, our population has more than doubled to almost 330M people. If we do nothing (let alone *increase* immigration) our population is projected to reach about 400,000,000 people by the year 2050 -- only about 30 years from now.

Those are facts, and projections by the US Census Bureau. The problem with the sustainability numbers (150M > 175M) is that if the opinion of the serious scientific community is ignored -- or blown off for one reason or another -- one can find "Sustainable U.S. Population" estimates all over the map. Anyone can pull a number out of their, um, ear. Some people/groups might say 15,000,000, others might say 1.5 billion. Point being that people can find a number/data to suit their agenda -- just as some people do with GW/CC. For example, those who are primarily concerned with making a profit in the short term will support adding more people to the Ponzi scheme "Pyramid of Growth", because "growth is good" -- or so we're told. We MUST have continuous, infinite growth! Our entire economic system depends on it! Never mind the fact that we live in a country and world with finite resources -- we'll all be dead when they run out, amirite? We want the staus quo! Big profits now! Those "future people" can fend for themselves!

When it comes to things like GW/CC and a sustainable population, I'll take the opinion of the scientific community over those with a vested interest in business as usual any day of the week.

sofanna

I agree with MrNatural. Since when is illegally entering a country without permission acceptable? Anyone who enters our Country illegally, has already committed a crime.

mrnatural1

Thanks sofanna. I'm not sure which of my posts you are referring to, but to be clear, my primary concern is overpopulation. We need to gradually, voluntarily, begin reducing our population -- that means eliminating (or at least severely reducing) illegal immigration, and reducing legal immigration.



I am completely unconcerned about race; ethnicity; religion; nationality; gender, etc. It's the sheer number of humans that is destroying America and the world.



We should do what we can to help those less fortunate than us -- especially the countries south of the border. Foreign aid; non-profit groups (NGO's); the Peace Corps, etc. Help them improve their countries so they do not want to come here.



The northern border seems pretty safe, For some reason very few Canadians are trying to sneak in. I wonder why...? [unsure]

mrnatural1

At this point, we have no idea how this case will go, but if Ms. Medrano wins her lawsuit and there are compensatory and punitive damages, only the former should be awarded to Medrano. Punitive damages should go to an appropriate non-profit group. That should be SOP for all cases like this.

By definition, compensatory damages should go to the plaintiff. They should be reasonable and fair -- based on actual damages and/or loss suffered -- NOT the depth of the defendant's pockets. After all, if a person has their car totaled in an accident, they expect to receive the fair market value of their car, but assuming no injury or other damages, that's it. They don't receive 10x the value of their car if the party at fault is wealthy. The financial status of the responsible party is irrelevant, as it should be.

Punitive damages are meant to 'punish' the defendant, to alter future behavior and encourage compliance with the law. Those goals are not dependent upon the plaintiff receiving the punitive award. Paying out (say) $10M stings, regardless of who gets the money.

I would suggest that the punitive damages go to one or more local charities. That would benefit the community at large, rather than further enrich one individual.

That doesn't mean plaintiffs cannot receive huge settlements -- compensatory damages can be very large -- but punitive damages should benefit the community. That would have the additional advantage of discouraging people from filing lawsuits against entities with deep pockets in order to get a big payday. I'm not suggesting that's the case here (I have no idea) but generally speaking, we do see ridiculously large judgments when wealthy people, governments, or corporations are the defendants. That only encourages more lawsuits.

KellyAlzan

The comments on Facebook about this are comical and sad. Because so many fools do not know jack about civil rights! And many of the comments on Facebook are identical to many of the posts here! If you don’t like that an illegal immigrant is suing - then Move to Canada.

DickD

I am not happy with the current laws, but as long as we have them, all should follow them. I am not against ICE, I feel anyone in the country illegally should be deported, under current law. But the law needs to be changed, those that were promised a path to citizenship should get it. .As far as the border is concerned, we should immediately put every possible judge there to rule on those seeking asylum are given asylum. Those that do not qualify should be immediately returned to their native country. We also need to help the Central American countries, so this does not continue. We need to act with intelligence, not the helter-skelter Trump Administration way.

Dwasserba

Let's all just get down there and fix this. Afterward we can throw a party in the neighbors' barn. Heigh ho

sofanna

No matter how much financial aid our country contributes to the welfare of other countries, American lose every time. There's talk about $50 billion going to Palestine, how much have we give to to other countries that shout "death to America". So now, how much are you suggesting we give to Central America? Why don't we ever think of paying down the debt? We borrow money to give to other countries, and American Citizens eventually pay the price. Our borders MUST be secure. We are a generous country and have been for many decades. We've sacrificed many lives helping other countries to remain free, despite losing the fight at times. Our Veterans are not getting the health care they need, places to live, and some of their benefits have been cut. They deserve honor and health care for the what our government asked them to do. Yet we have people entering our country illegally or staying past their Visas illegally. WHO pays for these people? THE CITIZENS OF THE USA. We get our social security modified, constantly are told there won't be enough sustainable funds to all the hard working citizens who have followed the law and gave their hard earned money to be set aside to help them in retirement, as well as medicare that we paid for every dollar we worked. So now, we lose our social security by getting a small portion early to ensure we get any at all. AND, then the cost of medicare currently about $300+ per MONTH, will be deducted from our social security, reducing the amount of our benefit. On top of all this we have to pay additionally for supplemental cost of healthcare. Yet, let's continue supporting everyone who enters our country illegally and give to countries as they laugh at us and our multi-trillion dollar debt. Our country could end up being a 3rd world country, with no support from other countries, who will continue laughing at our honorable but negligent giving of lives, money, etc., to other those countries.

mrnatural1

sofanna, I agree that there can be a lot of problems and inefficiencies with foreign aid, but I would not say that, "Americans lose every time".

This article is about a Latina woman who is apparently here illegally from 'south of the border' (most likely Mexico or Central America) not Palestine. When I refer to foreign aid, I'm talking about the countries most undocumented aliens come from -- not the Middle East. I agree that we sometimes give aid to countries that do not deserve it.

As for the amount, I have no idea. One thing I do know is that we will be much better off if we stabilize those countries and help make them livable so that there is much less incentive for people to make the dangerous trip north to sneak into the U.S. illegally.

You mentioned paying down the debt. If you've read my posts here on the FNP website you know that the national debt is something I bring up often. It is a very serious issue. It is immoral to borrow money and leave the debt to future generations. The fact is though, by helping people improve the country they call home, we can help more people (for a given amount of money) and actually SAVE money by reducing immigration.

I completely agree that our borders must be secure. Even "open borders" people must realize that while the vast majority of immigrants are decent, hard-working people, there are also terrorists who want to do us harm -- as well as serious concerns about human trafficking; sex slaves; weapons; drugs; money laundering, etc. It makes zero sense to have the TSA practically strip-searching every airline passenger while we leave the borders vulnerable.

I also totally agree with your statements about veterans. It is a disgrace how, for all the talk about our "brave warriors", they come home and cannot get the help they need. That shows the puppet masters' true priorities.

Ditto SS and Medicare.

Lastly, you wrote, "Our country could end up being a 3rd world country..." That's true. In fact it is all but guaranteed to become a Third World country if we continue to allow our population to increase, because we only have enough resources to support approx 150M > 175M people. So, whether one agrees with foreign aid or not, it is a good investment in our country's future. Helping the less fortunate is also the right thing to do (assuming they are not trying to blow us up, which our friends south of the border are clearly not). Also, we are directly or indirectly responsible for the issues in some of the Central American countries, so we have even more of an obligation there.

DickD

Thanks, Mr.M. Apparently, some people don't know the difference between those coming to the U.S. from Central America and the Mid East. In the MidEast they have been fighting over religion for thousands years...There ideas on freedom and individual rights are totally different and there is no compromise.

francesca_easa

Bravo Sofanna.

gabrielshorn2013

Good post sofana. As a country, we must maintain our obligations to our citizens before we extend our hand to others. I wonder how many of those that support unfettered immigration would still do so if they understood the future costs to them or their descendants. As seen in the current controversy regarding the group home for recovering addicts in Frederick, if it affects them personally, very few.

KellyAlzan

Roxie Santos won, Sherf Trumpkins LOST

KellyAlzan

Fun Facts

Sherf Trumpkins won against Bickle by a whopping 3%.

Roxie Santos won’t agaisnt Sherf Chuck ‘Christmas’ Trumpkins by millions.

KR999

[yawn][yawn][yawn][yawn][yawn]

KR999

[yawn][yawn][yawn][yawn][yawn]

Lockherup

Just think if she would of entered the country legally none of this would of happened. Trump 2020 MAGA ..... just because of this story the wall should be ten feet higher!

awteam2000

Just think, if Jenkins sheriff’s followed the law we wouldn’t have so many law suits . Traffic cops aren’t responsible for determining citizenship. It’s illegal to ask one’s nationality and why would you think someone brown isn’t a citizen ?

gabrielshorn2013

aw, previously, as an undocumented alien, she would not have a license to drive, and would be guilty of driving without a license, incurring fines and points. If she does have a license, it will state that it is not valid for identification purposes, which is the conditions for undocumented aliens to obtain a license. If so, the officer was stating the obvious with the question. All traffic stops will result in the officer running her ID, where any legal problems would show up, including immigration issues. She was not taken to jail, but detained on the side of the road. Have you never been pulled over for a traffic violation?

vodalone

Wrong. Federally non-compliant driver's licenses, which is what MD currently issues to undocumented aliens is used for ID purposes as well as being able to operate a motor vehicle. The DL's sole restrictions are they cannot be used as ID to purchase fire arms and enter federal buildings only.

gabrielshorn2013

vodalone, such licenses when issued by Maryland clearly state

""NOT ACCEPTABLE FOR FEDERAL PURPOSES"

source: http://www.mva.maryland.gov/announcements/non-compliant-driver-license-ID-cards.htm

which states: Immigrants who do not have valid US Citizenship and Immigration documentation are eligible to apply for a non-compliant driver's license or identification card. Individuals who present foreign documentation without valid United States Citizenship and Immigration Services documentation must schedule an appointment online to apply for a federally non-compliant driver's license or ID card.

This implies that the driver is an undocumented alien. When a driver is pulled over, they must, by law, produce a driver's license, vehicle registration, and insurance card. The officer will then run that information through the system. Any issues will appear on the screen, whether they are driving related or not. Stating the obvious, or simply asking the question is not illegal. Officers are allowed to ask questions, and even lie to suspects. Was she jailed? No, that would be illegal.

vodalone

gabrielshorn2013 - You stated " If she does have a license, it will state that it is not valid for identification purposes". It is valid for identification purposes however, that's why the officer can run her information through their database. It is identifying who she is. The back of the license itself lists restrictions to the license holder. On a normally issued license it would be if you wear glasses, contacts, etc. On the federally non-compliant licenses it lists you cannot purchase fire arms or enter federal buildings.

gabrielshorn2013

Jeez vodalone, is no nit too small to pick with you? See my second post for further clarification. It also cannot be used to board a plane. That is what I meant. The rest of my statement stands. If she didn't have the required documents, she would be fined for each one.

vodalone

I was clearly stating the overt inaccuracy of your statement when you said her license cannot be used to identify who she is. That's not a small nit, that's the essence of your point. If they cannot identify who she was, they cannot proceed with checking for warrants, other personal info, or maybe even immigration status (even though it would be against the law).

sofanna

Hardly anyone follows the laws. If they did, our country wouldn't be in the bad shape it is in.

KellyAlzan

Just think, if Jenkins obeyed the law, Roxie Santos wouldn’t be a millionaire illegal immigrant.....

KR999

Oh, so she is a millionaire. Just how much did she get, Kelly? Please, enlighten us.

Dwasserba

...would "have" entered. If it's English.

DickD

Get lost!

Obadiah Plainsmen

The Supreme Court has been consistent with rulings that the 1st, 5th and 14th Amendments apply equally to illegal aliens. With that the best advice to any person here in the USA whether documented or undocumented(illegal) and exercise your constitutional right to remain silent. You can't be arrest for not showing ID, you don't have to answer any questions and most of all don't sign/say anything.

mrnatural1

Good post Obadiah. The key point is that while police officers can and do ask a multitude of questions in some cases, there is no need to answer them. Ms. Medrano could have remained silent. Also, just to clarify, while there is no requirement that a person show ID when out in public, the driver of a motor vehicle must carry a valid driver's license and present it to the police upon request. As the driver, Ms. Medrano did have to show the deputy her license (ID).

ma23464

I also can see how the immigration question could be construed as profiling and racist. Are American looking people asked these same questions? I personally have never been asked my immigration status. But even if I was I would decline to answer.

mrnatural1

ma23464, the article says, quote: "Barrera then asked Medrano about her citizenship status, telling her that she had an "immigration problem"... That indicates that Deputy Barrera (or Mothershead) had already run her license for "wants and warrants" and her immigration status came up. He was simply asking based on what he found.

jerseygrl42

The census form doesn't' know what you look like ....so what does "American Looking " mean to you..how silly

Dwasserba

[thumbup]jersey

gidgetpb

"You're not a US Citizen so aren't protected by our laws" - This is absolutely false. The Constitution applies to all persons on U.S. soil, not just citizens of the USA. Also, Citizen and Illegal Imigrant are not the only two possible options for immigration status. I have a relative living here legally who is not citizen. He is a permanent resident subject to and protected by our laws.. Asylum seekers are also not here illegally. They are required to be on US soil in order to claim asylum. In this case the reason given for the traffic stop was illegitimate. The citizenship question was asked at the site of the traffic stop, which is not legal. Whether tis woman i here legally or not, she IS protected by our laws and has a legitimate case. If Jenkins wants to participate in this program, he's got to do so legally. It comes out of the pockets of every one of us taxpayers when he plays fast and loose with the laws.

mrnatural1

Good post gidgetpb. Just one thing, the reason given for the traffic stop (stop/tail lamp inop) was legit. If you were referring to the claim that the tail light was later found to be working -- it's entirely possible that both the officer and the driver were telling the truth. It's not unusual for the contacts in light bulb sockets to become oxidized and resistive -- which causes the lamp to light intermittently. I've seen it several times over the years. The video from the cruiser's dash cam should show whether it was working or not.

ma23464

She is going to have a tough time proving that her tail light was in working order. So throw that defense out. Secondly, why can’t a cop ask your immigration status? They can ask you anything else under the moon. Courts have even ruled that cops can lie to you in order to get information. During a traffic stop the best thing for everyone to do, regardless of your immigration status, is to keep your mouth shut. If asked your immigration status politely decline to answer. Provide your drivers license and registration and just politely say I decline to answer questions.

mrnatural1

[thumbup][thumbup] ma23464

DickD

287 (g) does not allow anyto be questioned unless they have committed a felony.

mrnatural1

Dick, I'll admit to not being familiar with 287 (g).

That said, we all know that cops ask people a zillion questions sometimes. It's what they are trained to do:

"Where do you live? / Where are you from?" "Where are you going?" "Why?" "Do you have a job?" "Are there any drugs or weapons in the vehicle?" "Is there anything sharp in your pockets?" "When was the last time you smoked marijuana?" "How many drinks have you had tonight?" On and on.

Some questions are very personal, some are potentially incriminating. I'm not clear on why cops are (apparently) not supposed to ask about immigration status.

phydeaux994

It’s called profiling which is illegal. That’s how Jenkins got in trouble in the Santos case. That’s when you see a Hispanic looking driver and make up a reason to pull them over. “Driving while Brown”, similar to “Driving while Black”.

shiftless88

The fact that you are not familiar with the applicable aspects of this story yet you feel free to comment and speculate tells me that you are not well informed and seem fine with that. Which makes me worry.

gregsanders25

You're here illegally, that's a crime hence illegal

MRS M

Thank you for the clarification, Greg! Let the roundups begin!!

sofanna

Yes it is.

CharlesNelsonReilly

Jeremy... did you guys in the newsroom break out the organic champagne and gluten-free soy wafers to celebrate this incredible piece of breaking news? I could only imagine the glee on the entire FNP staff's faces when this "broke". Jenkins is considered by many as a Joe Arpaio type sheriff. It is why the FNP and loons in Frederick City threw everything at Jenkins in the last election. Fortunately, they and Bicks lost. Living in the very southern part of Frederick Co. gives you a decent perspective on what is going in our county and just south in The People's Republic of Montgomery County. The Southern part of Frederick Co. has many MoCo police officers & fire personnel. Most, if not all have concluded that MoCo has become a non-liveable craphole because of the crime, overcrowding and horrible schools all in the name of DIVERSITY. Much of it can be directly tied to it being a sanctuary county. Which sadly seems like the same goal of the "educated" whites in Frederick City.

sue1955

WELL SAID, CharlesNelson! -This and your 3:18 commentary.

phydeaux994

MoCo is one of richest, most educated Counties in the Country. They also have one of the best School systems in the U.S. The “Educated Whites” newbies of many Nationalities who have migrated from MoCo to FC have made Urbana Schools the best Schools in Frederick County. Quit makin’ stuff up CNR, it makes you look rather foolish. Peace!

MRS M

Tut, tut, tut, Charles. You needn't be so gleefully attacking the FNP editorial staff today. After all, they did run that stellar spokesman for the conservative way of living, ole Blatchford from Mt. Airy today. And, are you stating here, for the record, that you're willfully ready to attack those who suffer from gluten sensitivity?? Shame on you!! (as Rick likes to say!) , but thanks for elevating the dialogue, Charles. The only thing you (conveniently) failed to mention, in your diatribe against MoCo, is the fact that the exodus to Fredneck is primarily due to inaffordability of housing costs in MoCo. , even for the honorably employed. Sorry to have to point that out, and as you know all to well, that's changing rapidly in Frederick too.

shiftless88

Charles; I vote that you and those who voted for Jenkins are responsible for the payday that the County will certainly have to pay out. Put your money where your mouth is.

bgreenway

Good for her! Standing up for one's rights against the illegal actions of those in charge is fundamental. Here the police, ICE, Border Patrol, etc. are judge, jury and sometimes executioner. Oh, and another "secret" Facebook page exposes the real thoughts and desires of these "officers of the law". Thousands and thousands of cops and their ilk post their true colors, full of the most vulgar and disgusting comments and pictures the sick and depraved mind can imagine. La lucha continua.

CharlesNelsonReilly

"Standing up for one's rights against the illegal actions of those in charge is fundamental"..... Holy lord, where do you people come up with stuff? So her being here ILLEGALLY is ok, but law enforcement enforcing THE LAW is not. You people are totally off the reservation.

phydeaux994

CNR, it’s just as illegal to hire an illegal alien. But that law breaking is never enforced. Shall we arrest those law breakers and take away their children? Think man, Think!!

mrnatural1

Excellent point phydeaux! The use of E-Verify (or similar) should be mandated by law, with steep fines and prison time for violations -- especially repeat offenders.

Joey Pesto

Any driver of the State of Maryland who cannot prove that they are in this country legally are given a driver's license that states at the top of the license that this license cannot be used as federal identification. This would alert the officer that the driver may not be in this country legally and that would require further clarification. With that said, there are many, many, many driver's like that in the State of Maryland. Conversely, the state of Virginia does not allow drivers to get a driver's license without the proper documentation.

DickD

A bigger problem, per my insurance company, are those driving without a license or insurance.

mrnatural1

Hi Dick, I think Joey's point was that the license given to those here illegally is instantly recognizable, and might have been one reason the deputies questioned Ms. Medrano's citizenship status.

threecents

I think Dick's point is that our system (which is like California's very controversial system) is better than Virginia's.

huskycats

Undocumented is another word for illegal. How many other countries would allow a lawsuit like this? Just sayin'

bgreenway

just sayin' how many other countries separate children from their parents and put them in cages, and defend the lack of toothbrushes and showers? Just sayin' how many other countries pay private companies $700 a day to do that? Just sayin'.

phydeaux994

Only the FREE Countries huskycats. Not Russia or North Korea or Saudi Arabia.

Samanthapowers

more fine work from sherf trumpkins. how much will this 'mistake' cost? starting to cost tax payers more than he's worth.....

WDBC

Funny how they try to gloss over the fact she IS illegal. You're not a US Citizen so aren't protected by our laws. It's funny how they ignore and violate our laws unless it suits them to sue. Broken system.

Samanthapowers

sort of the like the joke at 1600, huh bc? minus the illegal part though he certainly used chain migration to get his wifes family status. how is wife was able to obtain has never been clearly answered. knowing them, more grifting, cheating, lying.

awteam2000

It sounds like Jenkins is the one having problems following the laws.

threecents

Whether she was undocumented or not is irrelevant to this case. But since you guys seem to be fond of saying this: "What don't you understand about illegal?" What the deputy did was illegal. And all of us county citizens better open up our wallets because - no matter what sides we are on - we all will have to pay for this lawsuit.

KR999

I don’t see our taxes going up, even if this illegal wins.

Samanthapowers

Exactly. As mentioned, his incompetence is costing more than he may be worth.

Comment deleted.
Samanthapowers

not really. just a shame taxpayers foot the bill for his incompetence.

mrnatural1

A related rhetorical question (for the whole class) Samantha -- if Ms. Medrano prevails in court, why should the county residents who did not vote for Chuck Jenkins have to pay dime one? I realize there's no way around that, but it seems unjust.

threecents

Because we live in a society that fears immigrants.

corgikid

That is a false statement and outright lie. Americans want immigrants through a safe, secure, and fair system. That's all. Quit making it all about race.

threecents

Race? I was not referring to race.

vodalone

Democracy. If Jenkins is costing the taxpayers money due to his racist tactics, he will be voted out or thrown out because the people will have enough.

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