It seems there are a few who feel Trayvon Martin was just an innocent victim. Let’s look at the evidence and facts that were presented at the trial.

George Zimmerman saw a person he believed didn’t belong in the area. Fact: There had been a large number of break-ins in the area. Fact: Trayvon Martin was walking home after going to the store, which is not illegal. Zimmerman did follow Martin, which is not illegal.

Fact: Zimmerman lost sight of Martin and started walking back to his car. On the way back to his car Zimmerman was confronted by Martin. Evidence shown in court showed that Martin struck Zimmerman in his face causing his nose to bleed. This is a crime of assault. Zimmerman fell to the ground and Martin jumped on top of him, hitting him and pounding his head on the sidewalk. Again this evidence was show in court and is a crime. Zimmerman had committed no crime to this point.

Sometime during this fight Zimmerman felt that his life was threatened enough that he could die. Example of this is the referee who was punched in the side of his head by a player and died two days later. Zimmerman took his handgun out, which he had a legal right to have, and shot Martin, who died from that wound. Evidence showed that Martin was on top of Zimmerman at the time he was shot. This is a tragedy but under our laws you have a right to defend yourself against great bodily harm.

Now for those who do not like the “stand your ground” laws and feel they are wrong, just remember this: If you didn’t have these laws and you did not flee but stayed and defended yourself, you would be violating the law.

Martin choose to confront Zimmerman and assault him instead of going home. No one will know why. He and Zimmerman are suffering the consequences for their choices.

No time during the investigation or trial was any evidence presented to show race was a factor.

With the evidence and facts that were presented to the jury, they made the right verdict of not guilty. Before anyone says they were wrong, put yourself in Zimmerman’s place; would you want them to convict you with the same evidence and facts?

Fact: The prosecution withheld evidence that was favorable to Zimmerman, which is a crime. The man who did the right thing and revealed this information to the proper authorities was fired from his job the next day by the prosecutor who withheld that information. Fact: The chief of police was fired because he would not arrest because there was no evidence to support that arrest. Fact: The lead investigator was taken off the case for the same reason the chief was fired. From watching the trial and how the judge acted, I somehow think the state may have gone “judge shopping.”

Fact: The jurors are now under armed protection because of death threats.

Fact: 92 percent of the blacks murdered each year are killed by other blacks, FBI report.

Eric Holder is now investigating Zimmerman again for civil rights violations; the first FBI investigation and court evidence showed that race had nothing to do with it. If Holder wants to investigate civil rights violations he now has dozens from last weekend and this week. He need not look to far, because four black males beat a Hispanic man in Baltimore on July 14. Witnesses said that while they were beating him they were yelling this is for Trayvon. This is a hate crime because they targeted this man because of his race.

I wonder if Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson will be held accountable for any deaths for stirring up the crowds.

Now think about this: Would Zimmerman have been charged if he were black?

Now I am going to be called a racist for stating the facts, but before you write your letters look in the mirror and ask if you have ever in your life uttered an ill word about another person because of their race?

BRADLEY BAXTER

Frederick

(159) comments

stevehamsr

Ole Wats needs to lay off the alchohol. He now wants everyone to believe he is an attorney.LOL!!!!

watson4sherlock

Stalking is a crime in every state Including Florida. I guess hell will freeze over before you can accept that fact. A 17 year old can not legally carry a gun for self-defense. Zimmerman was told to report not follow or engage.

Fla. Stat. § 784.048. Stalking; definitions; penalties. (2012)

(1) As used in this section, the term:

(a) "Harass" means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that person and serves no legitimate purpose.

(b) "Course of conduct" means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, which evidences a continuity of purpose. The term does not include constitutionally protected activity such as picketing or other organized protests.

(c) "Credible threat" means a verbal or nonverbal threat, or a combination of the two, including threats delivered by electronic communication or implied by a pattern of conduct, which places the person who is the target of the threat in reasonable fear for his or her safety or the safety of his or her family members or individuals closely associated with the person, and which is made with the apparent ability to carry out the threat to cause such harm. It is not necessary to prove that the person making the threat had the intent to actually carry out the threat. The present incarceration of the person making the threat is not a bar to prosecution under this section.

See http://www.victimsofcrime.org/our-programs/stalking-resource-center/stalking-laws/criminal-stalking-laws-by-state

stevem90999

Well I guess you just proved my point. Hell will freeze over before the liberals will accept the verdict. Besides, Zimmerman wasn't stalking. As it was reported, he went back to his car because he LOST sight of Martin. Martin met Zimmerman at the car and that's when the assault by Martin on Zimmerman began.

wmpratt2010

OK lets get "legal" How did Martin know Zimmerman was following him? How did Martin determine Zimmerman to be a threat? Keep in mind no one knows what was said. Simply walking in the same direction as another is stalking and worthy of a sucker punch?

Watson you have this need to have this issue be something it isn't. Try being objective for once.

stevem90999

It doesn't how matter "facts" you present, the liberals aren't going to accept this until hell freezes over and not even then.

joephrazer

stevieboy,when hell freezes over you'll be the first to know.

touscents

I don't know why everyone is so excited. By Fla law Zimmerman was clearly innocent. Both did very stupid things. Zimmerman should have had some training and should not have had a gun, but there is no law against stupidity.

watson4sherlock

Not guilty is not innocent. Licensed to practice law in Florida are you? Zimmerman was not prosecuted to the fullest extinct of the law. The prosecutor alerted the jury that they had failed to prove murder 2 when they introduced manslaughter at the last minute.

p-dave62

sort of like sayin' the jury couldn't see or hear evidence convincing them Zimmerman was guilty are you Watson ???? ...or maybe you're sayin' the jury got it wrong if only that inept prosecution team hadn't alerted the jury they couldn't carry a ball they threw ...as I see it the prosecution was given broad opportunity to make the case if they had one and they failed like rank amateurs ...look, the defense made a case that Zimmerman was innocent and the jury was just awed at the prosecution's grand job makin' the case also that Zimmerman was innocent of the charges ...you chose to insult the jury's intelligence Watson and suggest you're some kind of higher authority over their judgment ??? ...again Watson you come off as some pompous jerk azz know it all ...and that's you're fatal flaw others see it, feel it and hear it ...

watson4sherlock

Not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt but not to a mathematical certainty does not mean innocent.

watson4sherlock

It is a false assumption that Zimmerman is innocent; the jury found him not guilty.

watson4sherlock

I suspect you call anyone who disagrees with you names because you lack rational arguments.

dressthebird

Watson is not an attorney but did stay at a Holiday Inn Express...

p-dave62

wampratt you posted a super funny comment ...see Watson we notice but the notice I suppose isn't the brand of praise you look for ...

watson4sherlock

Watson is neither an attorney nor has stayed at a Holiday Inn Express however I have stayed at a Holiday Inn. Residence Inn was my favorite place to stay. Loved the hot breakfast bar. I also like the make your own waffles on some breakfast bars.

wmpratt2010

So what do you want? Hunt Zimmerman down and do an old fashion hanging? Is that the world you want to live in?

watson4sherlock

I want the DOJ to do it's job and make sure justice was served.

Was Zimmerman appropriately charged as allowed by Florida law? Why as manslaughter thrown in at the last minute? Was the jury selected without prejudice? Did the prosecution present the appropriate witnesses? Was the instructions to the jury accurate? Why was the evidence handled so poorly?

wmpratt2010

So your goal is to keep changing and keep trying until you get the conviction you want? This is exactly why we have double jeopardy in our law.

wmpratt2010

If those are the questions you have remember none of them are Zimmerman’s fault. What you should be advocating is for all the prosecutors to be fired and for them to lose their bar license.

watson4sherlock

I'm not asking for people to be fired from their jobs or lose their bar license but if that what it takes to ensure liberty and justice for all so be it.

There are more lawyers than jobs. Maybe we'll rotate some bad one's out and some good ones in.

Do you object?

stevem90999

We don't have justice in the u.s., we're not suppose to have that. That's why we name our courts, a "court of law," not, "court of justice." Our courts are only interested in "points of law" being satisfied. They are only interested in who "has" the right, NOT who may be right in a particular case. The prosecutor in this case fouled up because he didn't have a case to start. He proved that by introducing manslaughter at the last minute. A tell-tale sign.

grprecordnut

@newtofc You are reaching for straws. Too many people WANT the r word out there. It is a business. "Restore" these United States. Do not "Transform" these United States. Divided we fall!

newtofc

I don't want the r word out there. I don't think this case is about race and I disagree that it should be brought up as such by either side. This case is more of a gun issue, read machinehead666's post of 7:09 p.m. You want every Tom Dick and George Zimmerman out there to be armed and playing wannabe law enforcement officer who can shoot you dead and claim self defense? But you are right. Every time an article in the FNP that can be construed to be about race the comments number 100 or more very often.

watson4sherlock

The r word...republican? Race has been a demographic for hundreds of years and now you just want to bury it? Trying to sweep something under the rug are you?

joephrazer

Watson and Newtofc, Both of your comments are correct. 124 posts! Every time the race issue comes up the Cons go crazy,"methinks ye protest too much", while they try to sweep it under the rug. Obama's Presidency has unveiled Racism in all it's ugliness.
..

wmpratt2010

Being a Conservative I do not judge a person by their race (that's what liberal/democrats do). The left made this case racial for political reasons. My goal is for everyone to be judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. Personally I find it offense when leftist tell blacks they cannot make it on their own. It's liberal; democrats that are the true racists and they been that way for 200 years.

ma23464

OMG, George Zimmerman rescued a family from a burning overturned car. The article states, the race of the family is not known, like that even matters.

If black people want to be equal, stop spouting this whole black white think. This issue in this case was, one person was killed by another. Not black killed by white.

Until we stop putting people in groups, we will never beat racisim

watson4sherlock

Most news reports say overturned SUV not burning.

Callers to 911 described a dramatic scene: An SUV lost control in the area of Interstate 4 and State Road 46, flipping on its side and sliding into a median.

Several callers said they saw people helping a family trapped inside the overturned SUV, according to audio recordings released by the sheriff's office.

"There was tons of smoke ... people were starting to rush towards the vehicle," one caller said.

"They got everyone out of the car," another caller reported. About a minute later, the caller said, it looked like the vehicle was catching fire.

See http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/22/us/florida-zimmerman-vehicle/

Comment deleted.
tuscarora21790

Ignorant and ugly.

tuscarora21790

If that man did that to my white son who wears hoodies all the time he would never be found again.

newtofc

The bottom line still is if George Zimmerman didn't have a gun that night to bolster his courage (evidently, according to his defense team, he was a pretty wimpy guy), no one would have died, Zimmerman wouldn't have ruined his life, the Police could have checked Martin out, and all this race stuff would have been a moot point.

tuscarora21790

Like a drunk in a bar fight.

machinehead666

Isn't it time for the press to fabricate another outrage by now? With over 300 million people in this country, where can the next outrage come from? Let's divide some more, build up the walls higher and just cause a larger majority to tune out from all the chicken little static that rains down on us. For what it's worth, I support gun rights, but I don't want just any Tom, Dick and Harry to have the right to walk down the street and then swear to God that I picked a fight with them - just so that they can have the right to shoot me. I trust the police more than I trust your average Joe. Too many loose cannons and not enough sense left in this world.

newtofc

Sounds like that is exactly what could happen. The last guy alive would claim self defense and walk away free.

adtwiggiv

As the letter writer suggested I put myself in Zimmerman's place. As it turns out I listened to the 911 operator and didn't follow Trayvon Martin. I went back to whatever I was doing that night and an innocent teenager's life was spared and I didn't have to be tried for murder. Whew!

fearghus10

Thank you!!!

grprecordnut

Or, Mr. Martin could have turned around and introduced himself to Mr. Zimmerman and presented himself in a more civilized manner. They could have become friends and partners within the community watch program that Mr. Zimmerman was involved in. Another point of view. Have a great evening everyone.

newtofc

How do you know he didn't do exactly that?

watson4sherlock

On Wednesday morning, a Florida Department of Law Enforcement firearms specialist testified that Zimmerman's gun was loaded with eight bullets, one in the chamber, before he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

Amy Siewert said the shot that killed Martin was a "contact shot," meaning the barrel of the gun was touching Martin's clothes when it was fired.

On cross-examination, O'Mara had her clarify that a "contact shot" does not necessarily mean the gun was being "pushed into" the clothing.

See http://www.wesh.com/trayvon-martin-extended-coverage/hearing-to-be-held-regarding-george-zimmermans-school-transcripts/-/14266478/20818428/-/xdwhdez/-/index.html

watson4sherlock

Zimmerman's nose was bleeding but no blood on Martin.

Potentially refuting Zimmerman's claims of a brutal, physical battle, Gorgone testified there was little or no trace of Zimmerman's DNA on Martin.

"You did not find any DNA of George Zimmerman under Trayvon Martin's fingernails?" asked state prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda.

"Nothing foreign to Trayvon," said Gorgone.

See http://www.wesh.com/trayvon-martin-extended-coverage/hearing-to-be-held-regarding-george-zimmermans-school-transcripts/-/14266478/20818428/-/item/1/-/aqckquz/-/index.html

niles_johson

But you must defend the neighborhood from the "other" with your false courage due to being a little man with a hidden gun.

p-dave62

you're perfectly sure are you twigg how sweet, tender and INNOCENT Martin was ???? ...twigg, bottom line is I’m struck with the likelihood many of our lives would be better off trustin' someone else other than you to "have their back covered" ...first off Zimmerman wasn't talkin' to 911, he was in conversation over the phone with the local 311 neighborhood watch coordinator ...the comment to the effect “don’t get out and follow the suspect Martin” occurred while Zimmerman still had eye contact with the suspect Martin’s movement walkin’ the “cut through” behind the buildings ...the suspect was near the end of the “cut through” and vanished as the coordinator inquired of Zimmerman where the suspect Martin was...Zimmerman replied sight of the suspect Martin was lost and he’d have to drive around to that end to maybe learn where the suspect might be ...upon Zimmerman’s arrival at the other side he didn’t see the suspect Martin anywhere and got out of his car to see and hear what he could ...

it was at this time that the suspect Martin appeared out of the shadows, confronted and began his assault on Zimmerman ...I’m sure Zimmerman had thoughts run through his mind for sure of how to extract himself from beneath the suspect Martin and the assault he was receiving ...

just guessing mind you twigg but I suspect Martin thought his surprise appearance and launchin’ into an assault of Zimmerman had put him so to speak “in the cat bird’s seat” ...as we all know now that wasn’t a brilliant move by the suspect Martin as it turned out ... after the suspect Martin had begun his assault on Zimmerman I believe his mindset wasn’t about to settle on losing the upper hand advantage he’d gained ...at a point in the assault the evidence was Zimmerman’s well being wasn’t looking the best it could ...Zimmerman’s reaction was what would be one any one of us would hold I think ...realizing I may not see the sun rise Zimmerman was fortunate enough to have a fateful moment in this assault to get a hold of his firearm ...he exercised the survival instinct and as it turned out a reliable 9mm was perhaps the very life line he needed that evening ...I know I would’ve done no less than Zimmerman did but probably with a lot less regret than Zimmerman has felt ...

newtofc

That's quite a story. Martin still had his Skittles and iced tea with him when the fight started. If he was planning an ambush don't you think he would have ditched them?

p-dave62

new are you all together right ???? ...did you hear of where the skittles and ice tea evidence was found ...lets see you tryin' to convince yourself, not me for sure, the suspect Martin was a straddle of Zimmerman ice tea and skittles in hand 'working" him over ???? ...there's something odd about that picture ...

watson4sherlock

Diane Smith, a crime scene technician who gathered evidence from the scene of the shooting. Smith described the scene of the shooting using photographs and diagrams introduced by the state. She went through the items confiscated from the body of Martin, which included an Arizona Iced Tea can, a bag of Skittles, a flashlight, a cell phone, and money found in Martin's pocket. She also presented as evidence the 9mm handgun which Zimmerman used to fatally shoot Martin in the chest.

See http://www.policymic.com/articles/51105/george-zimmerman-trial-day-2-highlights-skittles-arizona-iced-tea-and-a-9mm-handgun

adtwiggiv

p-dave62 - the LTE asked that we put ourselves in place of Zimmerman. I did. What is your problem? Why are you so filled with hate? Exactly whose back was Zimmerman protecting?

president8444

Lucylucy 4 people are happy Zimmerman was released, he and another man helped remove 4 from an overturned SUV 2 children. No thanks from you.

watson4sherlock

The other man could have done it without help.

newtofc

It really is odd how some commenters are so defensive about being racists.

wmpratt2010

The left really needs this case to be racial. From ignoring facts to changing Zimmerman's race. Racism must be dead in America if this classic self defense case gets his kind of treatment.

tuscarora21790

His race wasn't changed. White father. Hispanic mother. Waht was it changed to, martian?

p-dave62

Re watson4sherlock’s post at 1:08 pm Sunday - - - - read it !!!!, hell watched every swinging day of it cause I was curious to learn what the prosecution had to say for their case against Zimmerman ...by the 2nd day of prosecution witness direct it was clear their witnesses were more effective for the defense’s case than my wildest expectation could have imagined ...my suspicions were solidly clarified that from the git go politics drove this into the courtroom armed with zero convincing evidence and the prosecution hoped dwelling on characterization of Zimmerman using the racist ticket, ect. and etc., glossing over physical evidence and ignoring public officials resorting the pizz poorest of pre-trial conduct they had some sense be constructive in splashing fuel on a non-case ...

Elected non law enforcement public officials choosing to interfere with and use investigative law enforcement case evidence during ongoing investigation was careless and beyond the scope of their elected duties ...had the jury been permitted to learn of evidence that was blocked from being presented I don’t think the jury would’ve spent half the time they did to render the same verdict ...believe me I watched a trial that sure left me impressed the justice system is pathetic !!!!! and the system is not reluctant to stoop pretty low ...for me Martin should have spent the documented 4 minute gap between 311 conversation and resident 911 calls to his best advantage to land at his dad’s girlfriend’s home or even possibly have phoned 911 ...surely instead of BS’in with Jantel that would’ve added a dimension of police knowledge that could make a case that would’ve held water ...if Martin had done either instead of layin’ a plan wait in lay and physically confront Zimmerman I feel quite confident there’d be nothing to recall a rainy, uneventful evening that it could have been ...oh and my heart was just captured by prosecution star 3.0 GPA witness Jantel ...3.0 in a special education program perhaps but otherwise just a 19 year old strugglin’ to see if she pass 12th grade ...

What we now have is question of prosecutorial misconduct, in the State’s Atty. a wide ranging field of questions relating to her misconduct and inspiration of left locos of all description demonstrating they give a dam less about respect for the jury’s verdict ...BO and Holder also cautiously using the event to create some political hay that can perhaps be shaped to their advantage ...neither of those AH’s has demonstrated of a genuine will to respect the law ...

ad_s_towel

What this letter writer and rabid commenters defending him represent their real fear that, due to the coming demographic shift to a majority minority country, they will be treated as they have treated others.

It is the dying paroxysms of their supposed "superior" status and it will only get worse as they decrease in number.

p-dave62

oh holly hell ad, you need to throw in the towel ...no doubt you're impressed with yourself in your post but the reality it's nothing more than the driveling of an immature mind that has some grasp of learning but purely not even an ounce of common sense ...

niles_johson

Your post sounds fearful. Why is that?

vicdavy

Ad,I have been saying this for years. Many White folks are scared and when Obama got elected they freaked. I am glad I am not the only one who recognizes this overriding element.

joephrazer

ad,You are right on,Bro. The establishment white folks are scared.

Comment deleted.
niles_johson

[happybirthday]

niles_johson

Small man = concealed carrier = false courage.

Why couldn't ol' Georgie take the whuppin he provoked?

p-dave62

towel is this you or a classmate of yours ...I have a gut feeling you just joined the Post's site today...

niles_johson

Been around since 2004. You?

frederickhole

provoked? really? LOL Niles, are you are showing all to well that you didn't follow the proceedings. [sad]

niles_johson

He provoked a confrontation he couldn't handle and fell back on his crutch: a gun. Little man with a deadly weapon.

Followed it enough to know that his actions were declared not guilty per the law but morally/ethically/financially culpable for the death.

Seen many a wanna-be like Zimmerman and they are all cowards: badge bunnies or "elite operators" who are simply pathetic liars who conceal carry in order to feel good about themselves.

watson4sherlock

DOJ: Don't return gun to George Zimmerman while we're investigating
July 18, 2013

See http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-07-18/news/os-george-zimmerman-gun-20130718_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-prosecutor-angela-corey

watson4sherlock

If the certified copy of actual trial transcript was available would you read it or have you made up your mind?

ALincoln

The problem with this letters argument is that Zimmerman was advised by the police not to follow the victim. Had he simply stayed in his car and waited for the police an innocent (and unarmed) young man just coming home after buying candy at the local 7/11 would be alive today.

President Obama posed a valid question.....what if Trayvon had been a few years older and was carrying a licensed gun?.....could he have not shot a strange man following him down the street (Zimmerman) and claimed the "Stand Your Ground" statute as well?....

The "Stand Your Ground" laws currently in force in several states should not give hunting rights to Mall Security wannabees and overzealous Neighborhood Watch
folks who don't like the looks of that black man walking down their street.

Even Sen. John McCain is calling for a serious review of such laws.

trueyankfan95

The police never told him not to follow. It was a non-emergency operator. Apparently you didn't follow the trial or know any of the unbiased facts...the operator kept asking him questions about Martin's whereabouts. Therefore, Zimmerman left his car and followed Martin to answer the questions, until he lost sight of Martin and began to retreat to his car. But then Martin found him...end of story.

watson4sherlock

During the neighborhood watch training volunteers were instructed to report and not to follow or engage.

watson4sherlock

The witness, Selene Bahadoor, said she heard running, shouting and the word “no” at the back of her town house at the Retreat at Twin Lakes on Feb. 26, 2012, the night Mr. Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer at the complex, and Mr. Martin encountered each other. Ms. Bahadoor said she was in the kitchen when she heard what sounded like running, a movement from “left to right.” From a window at the rear of her home, she said, she saw what looked like two people flailing their arms. Both were standing, Ms. Bahadoor said, but it was too dark to make out their faces or clothing.

After walking back to her stove, she heard what sounded like a gunshot. Then, she said, she saw a body on the ground.

“It was just a body in the grass,” she said. “I remember it being face down.”

See http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/26/us/witness-portrays-zimmerman-as-neighborhoods-eyes-and-ears.html?_r=0

watson4sherlock

Why did Zimmerman pass up the chance to testify before the judge and get the trial thrown out?

Zimmerman has argued all along he acted in self-defense, although he passed up chance for a self-defense “stand your ground” hearing in which a judge could have thrown out the case without it going to a jury if the judge was convinced there was enough evidence to support it. Zimmerman’s community college instructor, Alexis Francisco Carter, told jurors that a person can claim self-defense if they have a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm. In their jury instructions, jurors were told self-defense is justified in using deadly force if Zimmerman reasonably believed that such force was necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself.

See http://www.registerguard.com/rg/news/30163649-76/zimmerman-martin-defense-jurors-prosecutors.html.csp

trueyankfan95

"Stand Your Ground" was not used in this case...

newtofc

George Zimmerman was found not guilty by a jury of his peers. Why does Mr. Baxter feel the need to continue to justify Zimmerman's actions? Is he still trying to convince everyone of Zimmerman's innocence? Why??

usgov

The reality is given the choice no white person in America would exchange places even with a black billionaire.

tuscarora21790

You are right.

Paulx

The jury is under guard? Really? I can see from a google that lots of death threats have been made, but I can find no indication Mr Baxter is correct in this claim. Anyone got a good cite?

watson4sherlock

The only protection I can find is keeping their identities secret and the judge ordering the media not to film them at any time.

usgov

Had Trayvon received the discretion is the better part of valor parenting instruction he would be alive today.

usgov

The perception of being a racist in the USA is no longer a detriment it's a political necessity in the W party.

Comment deleted.
frederickhole

reading comprehension issues?[sad]

usgov

The W party will be holding a memorial for Trayvon in the park today and will be donating hoodies and SNAP applications to participants.

dressthebird

Spay Neuter All Pets???

JEyler1183

Also applies to congress, government and anyone with ties to the white house.

usgov

Only if the black community was as diligent in preventing black youths from committing crimes as they are standing up for Trayvon.

trueyankfan95

They only care about Trayvon because he was portrayed as a kid killed by "the white man". Both were lies. Trayvon wasn't a kid and a white man didn't kill him.

watson4sherlock

Martin was under 18 and fell under the special Florida law to protect minors, the elderly, and the disabled.

dressthebird

Where's the outrage from Al & Jesse? http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/22/us/ohio-bodies-found/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

frederickhole

because the suspect is what color?[sad]

watson4sherlock

You don't like a black police chief?

The outrage was that Zimmerman killed an unarmed black person and he was not charged.

joephrazer

Day after day ,alone on a hill,
The Man with foolish grin is keeping perfectly still.
But nobody wants to know Him,
They can see that He's just a fool,And He never gives an answer,
But the Fool on the hill,
Sees the Son going down,
And the eyes in His head,
See the world spinning 'round.

usgov

Whites receive preferential treatment in the judicial system US not due to racism per se but because of blacks disproportionate offender status and recidivism rate. Blacks have no one to blame but themselves for their woeful social economic conditions. Until blacks drop these dysfunctional behaviors they will continue to be view unfavorably and suffer in the workplace, marketplace and courthouse.

orangelespaul08

Check this out. Charles Barkley weighs in and tells it like it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyA9YuYnq4I

frederickhole

[thumbup]

jacksback

This case is of no interest to me because I am not involved. If we let people live their own lives we don 't have anything to complain about when they start killing each other, long as they don't come after me. If you're white and you hate blacks that is not their fault, it's yours. Same goes for blacks who hate whites. If you think blacks get more out of society than they deserve, go down to west baltimore and live there for a while. you'll see.. If you quit vaining about what other peoples opinions are you will find a more peaceful life.

Comment deleted.
frederickhole

He didn't provoke, because Trayvon approached Zimmerman the 2nd time. Oops forgot that fact didn't ya. [sad]

frederickhole

Excellent letter and on point. But all the people protesting still wont get it. Everything is about race to them, not facts.[sad]

watson4sherlock

So are you saying people who ignore facts are only motivated by race? Yourself included?

salmonceej

Both of you are, without question, indefensible; Zimmerman for his actions and you for your blatant refusal to see what the rest of the world finds obvious.

frederickhole

Take the blinders off.[sad]

trueyankfan95

This is a good letter. You stated the facts. However, many people don't want the facts. They will believe what they believe because they are either border line racist, full blown racist, or believe what the media has reported. People like you and I should wear shirts and carry signs that say, "I am George Zimmerman". I'm thinking about copyrighting the name Trayvon O'bama before anyone else does.

No one seems to care that black on black crime is rampant in our country. Hundreds of blacks have been killed by other blacks either by drive-bys or some other violent means. However, that doesn't make the news because it isn't a story that main stream America will "buy". However, the media can twist the facts (alter taped evidence) and paint a death as racist and everyone goes crazy. Holder and O'bama speak out about a Hispanic man being painted as a racist and killing a 17 year old black man. Martin was not a boy. I don't care about his past troubles but he wasn't the angel as depicted in the pictures posted everywhere by the media.

Why don't O'bama, Holder, Al, and Jesse speak out about black on black crime? Why no punishment for the Black Panthers when they threatened Zimmerman? Why won't the media give the same coverage to the Hispanic man beaten in Baltimore in "honor" of Trayvon? Answer: None of these people care if the "white man" or Hispanic man is racially profile and beaten. It doesn't fit their agenda.

You can agree or disagree, but I don't care. This is my opinion. And as of today, my Freedom of Speech hasn't been suspended by our current administration. "I am George Zimmerman!"

xroads1213

I think the value in this story is that it is causing everyone to talk about the race problem in the country. Yes, there is more black-on-black crime but that is a different problem. I, presonally, don't see a resolution to the race problem in my lifetime. I have seen progress forced by laws and social pressures but the root of the problem is far from being resolved. It may never be resolved.

watson4sherlock

More whites kill whites too. It's the males of the species that kill.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

White on white victim 3,172 offender 2,630 male 2,810

Black on black victim 2,695 offender 2,447 male 2,385

See http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6

Wayo44Mag

This ENTIRE mess is the fault of the PROFESSIONAL RACISTS !! Jesse Jackson , Al Sharpton , Eric Holder , Barack Obama , the NAACP , and all the race baiters in the liberal media !! It is the black community that is the ONLY ones that can fix this .. and NOT by protesting in the streets .. this is EXACTLY what these race mongers want !! If it were not for the "stand your ground" law (which was NOT even an issue) you would not have even heard of this case !!

watson4sherlock

It was Eve's fault. Eve ate the apple so people got smart enough to be aware of race and got kicked out of the garden of eden.

It was God's fault for making people different races. If there were no races there would be no "professional racists."

watson4sherlock

The premise that Zimmerman's following Martin was not unlawful is false. Stalking is in fact a crime in all 50 states.

Fla. Stat. § 784.048. Stalking; definitions; penalties. (2012)

(1) As used in this section, the term:

(a) "Harass" means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that person and serves no legitimate purpose.

(b) "Course of conduct" means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, which evidences a continuity of purpose. The term does not include constitutionally protected activity such as picketing or other organized protests.

Criminal Stalking Laws
See http://www.victimsofcrime.org/our-programs/stalking-resource-center/stalking-laws/criminal-stalking-laws-by-state

dressthebird

Annnnnd, now everyone knows you are rather ignorant of the law.

frederickhole

He wasn't stalking. Do you feel the police stalk when the try to catch criminals?

dressthebird

Under his feeble definition, if you go to a mall, park in the parking lot at the same time as another person & you both get out and walk to the entrance, you are stalking that person.

frederickhole

So if you pass someone a few times in a mall, you feel they are stalking you? [sad]

dressthebird

Me - no. Watson - yes.

frederickhole

do you really pay that much attention to Watson? [sad]

dressthebird

Apparently as much as you pay attention to me...

watson4sherlock

Neighbor watch volunteers were told to report to police and not follow or engage. Zimmerman was stalking.

tuscarora21790

Zimmerman ain't police.

watson4sherlock

This is the law in Florida. I didn't write it.

Fla. Stat. § 784.048. Stalking; definitions; penalties. (2012)

watson4sherlock

Perhaps you like Maryland law better.

§ 3-802. Stalking
“Stalking” defined
(a) In this section, “stalking” means a malicious course of conduct that includes approaching or pursuing another where the person intends to place or knows or reasonably should have known the conduct would place another in reasonable fear:
(1)
(i) of serious bodily injury;
(ii) of an assault in any degree;
(iii) of rape or sexual offense as defined by §§ 3-303 through 3-308 of this title or attempted rape or sexual offense in any degree;
(iv) of false imprisonment; or
(v) of death; or

See http://www.womenslaw.org/statutes_detail.php?statute_id=4238#statute-top

dressthebird

You are so cute with all your cut & past information. Clearly you do not know how to interpret what you are posting.

watson4sherlock

Clearly you don't know how to read what is posted. The law is the law not my opinion.

watson4sherlock

I prefer to post facts not opinions and I support those facts with references.

watson4sherlock

Zimmerman's vehicle was parked along the path between Martin's home and the 7/11 that's why Zimmerman's saw him in the first place. For Martin to go home he had to go past the vehicle.

That a young black man can not be seen as a victim is not surprising this often happens in these cases. So is race an issue? Statistics tell us it more frequently happens when the victim is a young black man.

News Media, Victims, and Crime
See http://www.uk.sagepub.com/stout/greer_news_media%20-%20vic_crime_soc.pdf

watson4sherlock

Truth is law enforcement did a terrible job investigating the crime including not preserving the evidence at the scene of the crime because it was in fact raining and Martin's body was left laying on the ground covered by a yellow blanket.

Perhaps Zimmerman wasn't charged to hide the shoddy investigation. Medical evidence does not support the claim that Zimmerman suffered great bodily harm and exaggerated his injuries. Zimmerman gave the 911 dispatcher his phone number and asked him to have the police call him because he didn't know where he'd be hiding his intent to follow Martin. The last minute effort to add manslaughter alerted the jury that the prosecution had not met it's burden to prove murder 2. Martin was 17. Were all charges under Florida laws exhausted? In the interest of liberty and justice for all, this inquiry is justified.

782.07 Manslaughter; aggravated manslaughter of an elderly person or disabled adult; aggravated manslaughter of a child; aggravated manslaughter of an officer, a firefighter, an emergency medical technician, or a paramedic.

(3) A person who causes the death of any person under the age of 18 by culpable negligence under s. 827.03(2)(b) commits aggravated manslaughter of a child, a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

traumadoc101

Very well said, and backed up with facts. Very true!!!

watson4sherlock

Your diagnostic skills seem a little poor.

president8444

Lucylucy OUR courts found Zimmerman not guilty of murder,not Zimmerman. So you don't support our courts?? anti American and racists again.Typical loser . Yes a terrible death for sure.start blaming the court .If a back kills a white do you complain, I haven't seen this and it happens too. Are you sure your not a race bater or anti USA courts.To all Baxter is supporting the courts ruling, not you?? Ok its anti American.OJ your friend??

frederickhole

WILL YOU SHUT UP!

Comment deleted.
frederickhole

[thumbup]

tuscarora21790

What is "a black"?

pretzel

Very well put BRADLEY, you know a lot of times people will only believe what they want to believe and will never stray from that.

LucyLucy

According to Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch program Zimmerman was not part of a registered neighborhood watch program. ABC News reports that the neighborhood watch manual states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers. And they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles."

Lets look at the evidence.

Zimmerman "appeared to be fixated on young black males"He warned residents to watch-out for young black males, he saw Trayvon as "real suspicious looking" he "looks like he was up to no good" " he looked like" he was on drugs or something" that "these a**holes always get away" The dispatcher told Zimmerman "we don't need you to do that" when Zimmerman said he was pursuing the teen, but Zimmerman ignored that and continued to pursue the teen anyway.

Apparently Zimmerman decided that this young black a**hole wasn't going to get away. Trayvon was guilty just because was a young black male. He didn't have to do anything wrong. He was guilty by association for any wrongs committed by any young black males, real or imagined by Zimmerman.

Zimmerman ignored the dispatcher. He ignored the neighborhood watch manual, if he ever read it. He ignore common sense. He ignored everything except his obsession with making a young black a**hole pay for crimes real or imagined in his mind.

It looks like he took advantage of the opportunity to carry out his obsession with young black males by using the Florida self defense law, that states if you feel threaten whether it's real or imagined you can use deadly force against a real or imagined threat.

http://vveasey.hubpages.com/hub/Why-Was-Trayvon-Martin-Shot-And-Killed-By-George-Zimmerman

soule1061

"Let's look at the evidence." Where was this evidence presented? Was it presented in court or is it hearsay? This whole diatribe is nothing more than hearsay considering the source given at the bottom. Are we a nation of laws or of men? Do we conduct our affairs in an orderly objective fashion or according to the emotion of the moment and the shouting of demogogues?

watson4sherlock

Those witnesses, unfortunately for the defense, reinforced the idea that Zimmerman was a vigilante and did not follow procedures.

One important witness was Wendy Dorival, who was the coordinator of the Sanford Police Department's neighborhood watch program. She testified that she had helped Zimmerman set up a watch program in his neighborhood. The watch program training included telling participants not to follow nor engage with suspicious individuals. Program participants were to provide information to the police who would then respond.

See http://www.policymic.com/articles/51717/trayvon-martin-trial-george-zimmerman-doesn-t-deserve-much-sympathy

LucyLucy

See if George had just stayed in his vehicle he had no reason whatsoever to confront Trayvon?

Why Was Trayvon Martin Shot And Killed By George Zimmerman?

He was just making a run to the store to get some refreshments for himself and his brother in his father's fiancee's gated neighborhood. no crime in that. But, apparently self-appointed neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman thought otherwise.

He had a very different view of the subject. Zimmerman saw the teen as " suspicious" but the only thing the teen was doing was walking back to his father's fiancee's house. The police dispatchers call log show that Zimmerman reported the teen as a "real suspicious looking guy" that "this guy looks like he's up to no good" and that "these a**holes always get away".

Melanie Eversley, in a USA TODAY article on 3.18.2012, wrote that Zimmerman would frequently warn residents to "be careful of young black males". That he "appeared to be fixated on young black males" So the question again is why was
Trayvon Martin shot and killed George Zimmerman?

Zimmerman told the police that it was he who was crying for help on the tapes not the trayvon. What? Really? Zimmerman is 28 weighs around 200 pound. Trayvon Martin was 17 and weigh around 140 pounds. Zimmerman had a 9 mil handgun, the teen had a bag of candy and some iced tea! But Zimmerman was afraid and the one crying out for help before he shot and killed the teen? Really? Does anyone believe that?

Give me a break.If he was so easily made to feel afraid armed with a handgun against a teen with a bag of candy and iced tea. Why did he continue to follow the teen when the police dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that" He went looking for the teen. Those aren't the actions of someone whose afraid but someone on the hunt, some looking for trouble. looking for a confrontation.

http://vveasey.hubpages.com/hub/Why-Was-Trayvon-Martin-Shot-And-Killed-By-George-Zimmerman

johnhinze

Poor Bradley Baxter; he thinks he actually "knows" something about this case. Sorry to tell you Brad, BUT................. There's an old adage, it goes like this: Showing you are stupid is one thing. Opening your mouth and proving it is another. Really, it's not a good idea to publish your stupidity like this because informed people will cast you off like a weed in their garden.

soule1061

Well, "johnhinze", have you read the court transcripts of the trial? Do YOU know for a fact that what you are saying is true? These are typical leftist ad hominem attacks employed when facts of a matter don't support beliefs about the matter.

frederickhole

Funny, he presented a well thought out letter full of facts, and you are still to ignorant to understand them.[sad]

friedhard

Bax:
FACT: Trayvon tried to evade Zimmerman to escape a confrontation, but Zimmerman pursued him. Trayvon then chose to stand is ground, which is legal in Florida. He demanded to know why he was being followed.

FACT: witness described Trayvon then exclaiming twice "Get Off!" , which is a pretty good suggestion that Zimmerman had initiated physical contact instead of explaining why he was following Trayvon. Any reasonable person would infer that Zimmerman tried to physically detain Martin. That is assault.

CONCLUSION: Zimmerman started the assault and when he began to get his tail kicked, he pulled a gun and shot his unarmed victim.

In my book, thats murder.

higgledy

Thank God you're not a lawyer. "Get Off" could mean a lot of things. The prosecution could not prove murder. Sorry for your luck.

soule1061

Where are these "FACTs" recorded? The only real facts are those recorded in the official court transcript. Everything else is hearsay.

dressthebird

He got 'em from watson...

watson4sherlock

Where did Watson get the facts?

dressthebird

vicdavy

watson4sherlock

Check the references.

LucyLucy

Wow Brad racist much ? See you did leave out another small detail, Georgie boy did call 911 and the operator told him to stand down and not confront Trayvon and yet, AND YET he stalked Trayvon to the point of probably freaking the kid out and then Georgie boy got out and CONFRONTED a kid with with skittles and a iced tea and talking on his cell phone and suddenly Trayvon felt threatened I wonder WHY?

So Trayvon decided to defend himself against some crazy dude who had been watching and following him, stalking him through the neighborhood, ummm how was Trayvon supposed to know who Georgie boy was did he identify himself at anytime, NO he jumped out and confronted Trayvon, what we will NEVER know is what actually happened between those two, what words were exchanged and who really threw the first punch, there is absolutely no PROOF that Trayvon caused those injuries to George, NO PROOF and at all. George was not properly processed after the crime and that is a FACT so you cannot go blaming his injuries on Trayvon, makes you look like a fool Bradley.

And SO WHAT if Trayvon did get a punch in, why didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself or are white people the only ones allowed to that? Should Trayvon have been a good black person and submitted to a white person, you know like back in the slaves days, should Trayvon have dressed more like a white person so he didn't look threatening, still not sure how a kid with a hoodie on, and it was raining that night, carry a bag of Skittles and iced tea and talking on his cell phone to his friend looked threatening? Oh I guess he was casing the neighborhood..REALLY?

WHAT we do know is that George killed Trayvon in cold blood because he was looking to prove he was a man with a gun. That is a FACT. Why didn't George ask Trayvon if needed some help or needed a ride or tried to communicate with Trayvon and see if he could help? Why didn't he, because he was black and George with a gun was afraid...REALLY. Nope George was lookin to harm someone that night and Trayvon was a kid and black and of course George knew he could away with it and he did...

higgledy

Loosiegirl, the prosecution had no evidence to prove second degree murder. Your team lost.

watson4sherlock

Why didn't the prosecution charge Zimmerman with other crimes from the beginning instead of waiting until the last minute?

stuckon270

"no PROOF" , your very words not mine.... I will follow that up with innocent until PROVEN guilty. Most of what you conclude here is pure conjecture, intermixed with facts/statements by witnesses, while leaving out other facts and statements made by witnesses more favorable to Mr. Zimmerman. No accident on your part I would imagine. I don't have any PROOF of Mr. Zimmermans innocence, or guilt other than the juries decision. The jury heard it all, and in post trial statements admitted they believe Mr. Zimmerman did things that were not so smart, including not listening to the operator which is not illegal. But they said based on the law they could not convict, again no PROOF. I don't know if Mr. Martin attacked Mr Zimmerman or the other way around, but apparently you think you do. BTW back to your normal name calling I see. Perhaps you would like to tell us what that tells the readers about you.

wmpratt2010

Bradley, you must understand that the fallout from the event and trial must be altered to make it a racial issue so a few can gain political power and financial gain. Apparently there aren't enough true racism that some are forced to change the facts of his case to make it one .

LucyLucy

Prattboy, then perhaps you could explain what TRUE racism is to the rest of us posters....since there is fake racism and real racism..perhaps you could clarify it since you seem to know the difference between the two...[wink][wink][wink]

soule1061

So, what is "TRUE racism"? What is your idea of racism in general? Are we all supposed to like each other in some idealistic way? Racism works both ways, you know.

wmpratt2010

We should judge everyone by the content of their character. Of course this is just my humble opinion.

wmpratt2010

I'd be happy to Lucas.

Todays racist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FoekBjhtWE

watson4sherlock

Uploaded on Jul 16, 2009

Senator is introducing quotes from other black groups who are not testifying to contradict the Chairman of Black Chamber of Commerce who is testifying. That's like saying what he is saying does not matter. The Senator goes on to say she is putting these quotes in the record because they support what the Chairman of Black Chamber of Commerce opposes. The quotes being added to the record are general quotations not about the specific legislation being heard.

kjswartz

There are several half-truths in this article, so consider the source.

The rash of burgularies in the community was approximately six incidents for the 12 month period. Two incidents appeared to be related to property repossession. After an hour this morning, I can not find other incidents of burglaries within the community.

Sanford itself has a very high crime rate - its bad there. But I can't find other police reports from the gated community itself within that one year timespan.

A kid carrying a soda and candy in his hands and talking on a cellphone cannot be considered a serious burglar.

If we condone Zimmerman's actions, we then invite children to start arming themselves for self-protection. That is a very scary prospect.

kjswartz

The fight itself is not "a fact". It's a one sided recount of the events. It would be equally valid to say that Zimmerman found Martin in the bushes, and dragged him out to confront Martin. There's no evidence to refute either scenario.

The prosecutors did not withhold any evidence - basic Law & Order 101: rules of evidence. Timely disclosures does not mean immediate disclosure of every tiny detail. So far, no prosecutor has been fired or retired or reprimanded over this single incident involving cell phone photos or messages.

Should Zimmerman be retried for the same crime? No. A jury of Seminole County citizens decided against calling what Zimmerman did a crime. Double jeopardy would apply. But let's be clear - the finding of a local jury could well be very different. Having an armed security guard shoot a resident could have severe civil damages where all residents in the community pay restitution. And, in that situation, it would have been cleaner to judge Zimmerman guilty of something - manslaughter seems appropriate.

vicdavy

KJ,Thanks for your post the Haters will disregard the facts as they always do. More then that they disregard the implications and history of America.

kjswartz

I wouldn't call this letter writer a "Hater" - but there's clearly a prejudice towards gun owners and NRA fellowship.

stuckon270

Mr Davey's definition of a hater.....anyone who disagrees with his point of view.

fishbait96

We don't care about facts! The problem is a WHITE Hispanic killed a black kid. If it wasn't a WHITE Hispanic nobody would care.....see where I am going with this? People want it to be racial, the President and the Media want us divided. I only hope that the Latinos now realize that the Democrats hold them lower on the food chain then they do Whites.

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