City Police Tank Peacekeeper

The Frederick Police Department’s 1984 Dodge Peacekeeper armored personnel carrier has been taken out of service and is no longer used by the department’s Special Response Team.

Frederick police are looking to buy a new armored vehicle — like the county sheriff’s office recently did — even though records show the vehicles are rarely used.

Frederick Police Chief Edward Hargis initially included $375,000 for a Lenco armored tactical support vehicle in the department’s budget. He said in a hearing May 10 before the Board of Aldermen that there weren’t any similar vehicles in the area.

County Executive Jan Gardner just approved the $274,216 purchase of a Lenco BearCat for the sheriff’s office March 10, according to data obtained by The Frederick News-Post through a Maryland Public Information Act request.

In a letter justifying the purchase to Gardner’s office, Sheriff Chuck Jenkins wrote: “Recent ballistic tests on the sheriff’s office’s current tactical vehicle showed serious deficiencies.”

Jenkins did not return three calls over a two-week period seeking comment for this story.

Meanwhile, the 1984 Dodge Peacekeeper obtained by the Frederick Police Department from the federal government in 2007 is no longer ballistically rated, meaning that bullets could potentially go through it, said Lt. Clark Pennington, a department spokesman who oversees the department’s tactical team.

“If we were to deploy that vehicle in a situation where small-arms fire was being used, would the armor in that vehicle hold up? ... To put officers into a situation we don’t even know if we have the armor for, we believe that would be a negligence on our part,” Pennington said.

But, based on the numbers, the money used to buy the new vehicles would be better spent on training or different equipment, said Karl Bickel, a former second-in-command of the sheriff’s office. Bickel lost a 2014 election to Jenkins and recently retired from the U.S. Department of Justice.

Records obtained from the sheriff’s office show that, while the agency’s tactical team was deployed 27 times from July 2014 to April 19, 2016, its armored vehicle was used only twice. One was a barricade situation on July 13, 2014. The other was a barricade situation on Nov. 22, 2014.

Of the 25 times the Frederick police Special Response Team deployed in 2014, 2015 and so far this year, its armored vehicle was probably used twice, Pennington said. He did not specify what the calls were about.

The department does not track specific cases when the vehicle is used, said Capt. Dwight Sommers, who oversaw the tactical team before a recent promotion.

“There’s too few circumstances that you really need it and in those circumstances, there are vehicles that you can easily borrow from other agencies that you have mutual agreements with,” Bickel said, noting that both Montgomery and Washington counties own armored vehicles.

The Frederick Police Department dropped the vehicle from its 2017 budget proposal, but Hargis mentioned it in his “wish list” during his presentation, prompting Alderwoman Donna Kuzemchak to ask if the department had contacted other agencies to work with.

“There are vehicles south of us. Getting them here in a reasonable amount of time is the question,” the chief replied.

Sommers brought up another concern on Thursday during an inspection of the department’s vehicle at the city’s Department of Public Works facility.

“It’s a case-by-case situation. If the closest one available to us is Montgomery County, but it’s rush hour? Then we’re not calling them,” Sommers said. “It’s easy to say ‘call down the road,’ but if ‘down the road’ next week is Baltimore, how long is that going to take?”

Complications could also arise from the sheriff’s office or another agency operating in Frederick in a high-risk scenario, Pennington said.

“We each have our own tactical teams. We each have our own use-of-force policies. We each have our own special operations division that runs tactical situations, and to have that resource available to us when we need it is imperative,” he said.

Bickel acknowledged the concern, but he argued that the sheriff’s office and city police cooperate on a daily basis. The shooting at Frederick High School — which records confirm did not prompt an armored vehicle deployment by either agency — caused both agencies’ tactical teams to be activated. State troopers responded, too.

Jenkins’ proposal mentioned Fort Detrick and the presidential retreat at Camp David as potential high-risk terrorist targets in the county. While the sheriff’s office must respond to potential attacks, it “lacks the appropriate equipment to do so safely and effectively,” the proposal states.

Bickel argued that Fort Detrick and Camp David, secured by the Army and the Marine Corps, respectively, were hardly the “soft” targets terrorists usually focus on. He questioned whether the vehicles would be used in scenarios such as a school shooting, which was also mentioned in Jenkins’ proposal.

“The active-shooter training that is being done now is you go in as soon as you possibly can to neutralize the situation,” Bickel said. “It’s dangerous, but if it’s an active-shooter situation, then people are dying. You aren’t going to wait around for an armored vehicle.”

Armored vehicles are most useful to allow police to safely approach a dangerous situation where they may take fire, such as approaching an armed person who is barricaded in or to rescue someone injured during an ongoing shooting, Bickel said.

The purchase order for the sheriff’s office’s new BearCat was made March 16 and the estimated completion date is approximately 240 days after receipt of the order, according to the price quote.

Funding for the BearCat came from reimbursement money the agency receives for housing Immigration and Customs Enforcement inmates, as well as from cash and other assets seized in drug arrests, Jenkins told the County Council in a budget workshop April 21.

Frederick police have not identified any immediate sources of funding for their vehicle since it was dropped from the budget, Sommers said.

“We’ve been looking since 2008 or 2009. To be honest, we always knew this was going to be temporary,” Sommers said, gesturing to the Peacekeeper on Thursday. “We just didn’t know it was going to be 10 years ‘temporary.’”

Follow Jeremy Arias on Twitter: @Jarias_Prime.

Jeremy Arias is the Frederick city and government reporter for The Frederick News-Post.

(78) comments

WalterOlson

The county has one, so the city wants one too? I could understand this spirit of emulation if the city and county were expecting to fight each other.

KellyAlzan

The county has one of these nearly 1/2 million dollar things ordered. The city wants one, too.

This is why we need a county police force. The county police force could own one and then the city would not have to buy one.

We're talking (2) side by side agencies spending crazy money.

mgoose806

Need to eliminate to City Police Force and expand Sheriff's Department to cover it. Duplication of effort and not very good at it.

n01fu

Read up on Camden PD's 5th Platoon, and you'll see one of the reasons the county disbanded that agency.

deutschmnn

The Constitutional Sheriff is the best law enforcement officer and organization for the citizenry. Do away with the city police, keep and expand the sheriff. Always better when the chief of law enforcement is accountable directly to the people and not part of the corrupt political machine.

vicdavy

Lev,you have proven your point,lol! No! I think I have proven my point your support of an incompetent Oligarch proves your mindset,as an angry white cop,who wants an authoritarian for President! The communist/anarchist accusation is so typical from assumptions which rationalizes your arrogant cop mentality> Where were you in 1969 when I was in Vietnam? I stood up for America,before I realized the corruption perpetrated by the Military Industrial Complex! Your a mindless nameless true believer who's wants an authoritarian society where you and your ilk decide what freedom they will allow. Time are changing young man and you'd better used to it!
Karl, I can handle the political part cause I won't relinquish my freedom of thought and opinion because I would never run for office nor do I feel the need to fear the public opinion and always will be true to my beliefs.

Lev928

vicdavy ... I won't address your grammar or anti-American attitude. Instead, I'll address what matters.

Thank you for your involvement in the Vietnam war, regardless of whatever political motivations existed at the time. I was alive during that time, albeit too young to know what was going on. Regardless of your modern personal opinion, you possibly fought along side of your brothers during combat. I've been there. THAT is what matters. That same attitude, concept and reality applies to American policing. If we have less to work with, or we have an attitude AGAINST our police, then what? Anarchy? Free range criminal activity without due course of response and accountability?

Someone posted about the National Guard being responsible for the duties of law enforcement should such major critical incidents occur. If you were military, then you know as well as I do that the National Guard is subjected to severe limitations as to their role and authority in such situations. They are not cops and can only act under limited circumstances. For that matter (and I won't expose certain security-critical information), they are limited as to their immediate ability to respond to deadly force situations under current law.

What makes you think I'm white, by the way? Because technically, I'm not. Arrogant cop mentality? Because I want to live through a violent attack by a suspect/bad guy that makes me arrogant, racist or whatever label you want to throw out there?

What happened to you? If you served in Vietnam in direct combat (ie: incoming fire), than you would understand and not have this negative attitude about American police. The difference is that we come under attack and fire on domestic soil instead of foreign ground. And now we come under direct fire politically, just like YOU did when you came home from Vietnam.

Why? What changed your attitude and motivation? Would you take a bullet ... or take down a violent criminal or enemy soldier NOW to save an American life?

I'm an American cop. I will never support anyone or any ideology that refutes the Constitution or American law of order.

vicdavy

Why do you think that I support Anarchy? As I believe in the Constitution as well but I've seen and heard and watched for years police overstepped their Authority and break the law be it traffic laws or criminal laws and I believe you should be held to a higher standard. Personally I've never committed a felony or even a misdemeanor. The police I've known have a jaundiced eye toward citizens, through their eyes everyone's a criminal or a suspect. That is a sick mentality and sadly many police suffering from it. You're a public servant and a peace officer unfortunately many of you guys are just bullies with badges

bosco

Some people have a hard time seeing through their racial-tint goggles. Anyone who does not agree with them is a white racist oppressor descended from slave owners and part of the vast right wing conspiracy.


vicdavy

Yes bosco I think you have a hard seeing with your limited perception and your self diagnosis is pretty accurate.

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mgoose806

Maybe you should run for President of Venezuela

Lev928

Mr. Bickel does have a notable career and had a good reputation as a cop. However, it’s clear that his move toward politics have altered his motivations and clouded his judgement. The attitude he presents now is the same rhetoric spewed forth by politicians that have no knowledge or experience of American policing, and those of the anti-police, anti-authority movement. Hopefully this “new” attitude is not due to his election loss. No law enforcement agency would be safe, effective or successful in its duties if it was placed under his leadership now.

One point that was made about “borrowing” armored vehicles from other jurisdictions (ie: through mutual aid agreement) is insufficient, impractical and unrealistic. Especially when those agencies are responding from a great distance, or they are already being used by these agencies that are busier. For example, aside from rush hour traffic up I-270, Montgomery County police routinely respond to shootings, barricaded suspects, etc. Their full time and part time SRT (SWAT, SORT, SERT, etc) officers stay busy, as do their armored vehicles. Also, armored vehicles are not like cars and trucks that John Q. Citizen drive … they are not fast. They require specialized training and specific licensing to operate. Time is of the essence in response to any critical incident.

Combining the tactical resources of the FCSO and the FPD is certainly something to evaluate. However, both agencies require the ability to maintain such a unit and to utilize those resources at any given time. There is no way to have those resources available in more than one place at the same time if ever needed. These days, the possibility that will happen is increasing.

There is no Maryland law that requires documenting the deployment (use) of armored vehicles. There IS, however, a Maryland law that requires the reporting of the deployment of SWAT teams by every police/sheriff agency that has them. Bear in mind, not all law enforcement agencies in Maryland have a SWAT team, much less an armored vehicle.

The acquisition and use of armored vehicles by police was created by a necessity for them. This issue isn’t something that the police created. The violent, armed criminals in America created this necessity. And, yes, there are plenty of violent armed criminals in Frederick City and Frederick County. Just read or watch the news.

By the way, Sheriff Jenkins and the FCSO operate and ENFORCE under the color of the U.S. Constitution, state and local laws ... unlike many police chiefs and sheriffs across the country that ignore the Constitution. Oh, and also unlike the liberal and democratic politicians that have infected our government. A great example is illegal immigration. Yep … ILLEGAL immigration.
For those trying to persecute the FCSO deputies involved in fatal shootings, they were justified both legally and Constitutionally. As for the Saylor incident, there are now training requirements established for police to complete related to persons such as Saylor. Regardless, police will continue to respond to violence against themselves or the public, regardless of who is being violent. Take note.

For those using Wikipedia as a source of reference, that is a total FAIL in so many ways. Wikipedia accepts information provided by ANYONE in their descriptions, definitions and references. It is completely unreliable and an inaccurate source to cite.

For those making the typical anti-police statements, you are part of the problem. Because you (most likely) have a criminal record, use illegal drugs, are part of the failed “sovereign citizen” movement … or maybe just mad that you got a speeding ticket … you have no real world knowledge of policing or law. Well, except for being arrested I suppose. Having an anti-police or anti-authority mindset or attitude in no way qualifies your statements.

For those comparing police to the military, you are not much different that the aforementioned personality types. Police are nothing like the military. For one, the military rules of engagement (ROE) and police use of force policies are completely different. The military has a lesser requirement for use of deadly force. And for good reason. Armored police vehicles are not equipped with weapons (such as the M2, M249, MK19, etc) unlike military armored vehicles. Armored vehicles obtained from the military by police agencies are stripped of these weapons. Armored vehicles purchased by police agencies do not include these weapons … or any like them. If you have no idea what I’m talking about, then you’ve proven my point.

For those addressing the safety of the older armored vehicles, yes they can fail over time. They are manmade machines. The armor degrades over time. They can either be upgraded or replaced. They could be replaced via DoD programs under certain circumstances for little or no cost. Technology has changed, and armored vehicles are changing as well ... everything from the armor, engine and tires. Some newer ammunition and weapon types can overcome older armor, regardless of the type.

Before certain posters ask (a.k.a. accuse) … Yes, I’m a cop ... over 25 years. Yes, I’ve been on a SWAT team. No, I’m not against the legalization of NATURAL, UNALTERED marijuana. No, I don’t write tickets. Yes, I follow and abide by the U.S. Constitution and law BEFORE any police agency policy or practice. Yes, I’m voting for Trump.

gdunn

Excellent post, finally someone speaks the truth!

vicdavy

So you are part of the Angry White Male Fascists Party! After your comments, I understand why we have so many citizens been shot unjustifiable by the Cops! Karl Bickel is a honest, intelligent and educated man! I have had many conversations with him and he is proud of his Law Enforcement career. The difference is he has an open mind and isn't hiding by the Blue Wall or a fictitious name. How many of the videos have you seen where cops kill citizens and how many are murders? You're typical and until we get rid of your ilk Americans will not be safe from you guys.

Lev928

vicdavy ... thanks for proving my point below:

"For those making the typical anti-police statements, you are part of the problem. Because you (most likely) have a criminal record, use illegal drugs, are part of the failed “sovereign citizen” movement … or maybe just mad that you got a speeding ticket … you have no real world knowledge of policing or law. Well, except for being arrested I suppose. Having an anti-police or anti-authority mindset or attitude in no way qualifies your statements."

Your statement is groundless, has no merit whatsoever, and is typical of the anti-authority, lawless mindset that has infected America. The police --- and their Constitutional, legal right to use force -- is not going to go away. If you think there is a problem with American police using force, how do you address the use of force by the U.S. military? Do you accuse them of illegal, unnecessary use of force?

Instead of attacking the police (or the military), you should be thankful that they can --- and do ... and always will -- use force to protect people like you.

Go vote for Bernie or Hillary and support the further demise of the United States of America. OR ... understand reality, the Constitution and laws -- and become a valuable member of American society.

Unless you support criminals, lawlessness and anarchy. You sound like a person that has the ideology of a "sovereign citizen" or a convicted criminal that shows no remorse or owns no responsibility for their actions. Or was it just a little speeding ticket that got you in the anti-law, anti-authority mindset?

BTW, what exactly IS the "Angry White Male Fascists Party"? Is that something communist related? If it is, YOUR statements and mindset seem to fall in line with communism, socialism and/or anarchy.

Weird.

vicdavy

Lev, You are so typical of what I was speaking of,anyone who doesn't worship cops must be a lawbreaker. You fit the profile perfectly. Anyone who criticizes the police is a criminal,right? Your Authoritarian mentality is the problem. Sheriff Jenkins thinks that the police are the last line of defense from the government,is that what you believe, as well? Many nations have gone the authoritarian route due to fear. Apparently you want to be at the forefront of that movement. BTW,violent crime is down 50% over the last 20 years. The problem is the media reports negative and sensationalized incidents,which the fearful lap up. You say I'm Anti-American? I'm Pro Humanity and Pro Earth. Until you and your like-minded comrades broaden your perspective and identity with humanity instead of spewing nationalistic rhetoric you will never see the Big Picture.

Lev928

Oh, and I'm not hiding behind anything, much less a fictitious name. You see, we -- and by "we" I mean good, honest, hardworking AMERICANS -- don't hide from anything. In fact, we confront it.

vicdavy

Is this Officer Morales?

Lev928

vicdavy ... No, I'm not "Officer Morales", nor do I know any Officer Morales. I'm not a cop in Frederick County.

bosco

I've been stopped by the police for "suspicious" behavior ie: being in the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time of day. None of those situations resulted in the officer even drawing his/her weapon. Why? I pull over as soon as I notice the flashing lights. I roll down my window and sit quietly with my hands on the top of the steering wheel. I greet the officer in the King's English. When they ask for my license and registration, I have it handy and tell them where it is and that I will reach for it. I have no priors or warrants, so that ends the encounter.

Now, one can act like a gangsta, throw some attitude the cop's direction, make some furtive movements, disobey the officer's commands, try to get the officer's gun, run away, etc etc, and we can easily guess what the outcome might be.

vicdavy

Bosco your white! Have you not seen all the videos showing the behavior of police when they stop people? A citizen has a perfect right to inquire why he's being detained but if you ask a police officer those questions they immediately get upset and that usually leads to them arresting and roughing up an innocent citizen.

KarlBickel

Lev928, you raise some good practical points worthy of discussion. I would argue that taking advantage of mutual aid agreements for the use of armored vehicles is appropriate, particularly inFrederick’s case. That is what these agreements are for. Keep in mind these vehicles have only been called out on very rare occasions (twice in as many years for each agency) and we don’t know how they were used if at all.
I agree with you Lev928 that “Combining the tactical resources of the FCSO and the FPD is certainly something to evaluate.” I have seen this done very successfully in other parts of the country. As for “both agencies require the ability to maintain such a unit and to utilize those resources at any given time. There is no way to have those resources available in more than one place at the same time if ever needed. These days, the possibility that will happen is increasing.” The data on incidents speaks for itself.
I agree that “The acquisition and use of armored vehicles by police was created by a necessity for them.” Yes, but not every department needs them. The events in which they are needed are unique and very infrequent. That is why we have mutual aid agreements and agency partnerships to deal with unique and infrequent incidents.
There are many great tools and technologies that departments should make use of. But not every agency needs to own them. Once again, that is why we have cooperative agreements and mutual aid agreements.
As for the political arguments and rhetoric I will leave that to someone else.


Lev928

I appreciate the response, Mr. Bickel. Well stated, I might add.

As you know, mutual aid agreements are limited in their legal capacity. For instance, they cannot dictate the readiness of cooperative agencies to respond according to immediate necessity. This is why I support separate armored vehicles for both agencies. In effect, they CAN use them cooperatively when needed.

We can't say for certain that these vehicles were not deployed more than what was reported. As you know, documentation of such use is not required. Certainly, there are (for now) lesser use of these vehicles in Frederick County and within the city limits than other neighboring (southern and western jurisdictions). However, the fact still remains that relying on other agencies to provide support during critical incidents is not the best practice of readiness. Montgomery County has deployed their resources (including armored vehicles) to other jurisdictions from Baltimore to Hancock over recent years. As you know, these were well-involved incidents over extended periods of time. These resources were provided by MCP (and other departments) for rotational purposes ... to provide rest periods and support for the originating agencies. They did not perform as an immediate or first response asset.

I fully agree with, and support, multi-agency response and mutual aid agreements.
If Frederick County can SAFELY and EFFECTIVELY operate under those terms, than so be it. Ongoing issues in policing and terrorism don't support that possibility right now.

I respect your overall experience and knowledge in American law enforcement policies, practices and the real world environment. As for politics, I will never engage in them myself. I believe that politics seriously degrades the safety and effect of law enforcement nationwide right now.

My main focus is that of the protection of the lives of cops across the country that operate under the Constitution and color of law across the United States. I'm sure that you have the mentality regardless of politics.

KarlBickel

Your points are certainly not without merit Lev928. One of the things we must do is keep in mind that there are finite resources (taxpayer dollars) we have to work with. We must make sure that we use them in a way in which we can ensure we accomplish our goal of reducing crime and public order problems while protecting both our community members and officers in the field.
Though your correct “…mutual aid agreements are limited in their legal capacity. For instance, they cannot dictate the readiness of cooperative agencies to respond according to immediate necessity.” I have not seen where this has been a problem.
If we can’t provide an accurate picture of how often these vehicles are deployed, based on accurate documentation, that is a leadership problem. If we are going to justify the use of taxpayer dollars we must be able to accurately provide the why.
I agree that “… the fact still remains that relying on other agencies to provide support during critical incidents is not the best practice of readiness.” But we do have to make decisions based on need and available budget resources. Just as there is not a proven need for a full-time SWAT/ERT team in our county there is not a proven need for an armored vehicle. Should the need be established through the use of sound justification supported by accurate data, a partnership between the city and county might be the best course of action.
Officer safety is always paramount in my opinion and I believe that the money allocated for the armored vehicle would be better spent on training (the first thing that gets cut at budget time) and equipment/technology that supports officers in the field on a day to day basis.
As for politics, you can’t ignore the political environment. You just have to try to do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may.
And thank you for the kind remarks regarding my background and experience.

shiftless88

Also we should keep in mind per the amount of usage over time: we don't need to argue why they aren't needed, they need to argue why they ARE. I can see one in the county, not two.

theoriginalone08

Lev928: Thank you for your post. Informative, insightful and intelligent. You clearly know your subject matter, and no doubt, much more.

deutschmnn

Superb post. Bickel needs to back up and recognize that the people are well aware of what his sniping represents.

mgoose806

It amazes me how Bickel gets himself into the conversation as an "expert." Mr. "2nd in Command" was terminated by "First in Command- The Sheriff. He was destroyed in the last election by the current Sheriff. Couldn't keep a job in the DC Police Department....and basically a pencil pusher at the Justice Department.

KarlBickel

In addition to the dubious justifications put forth; this whole thing demonstrates the lack of a collaborative effort on the part of the city and county to consolidate some like services in order to save tax payer money and take advantage of the synergy that can be derived from what both agencies have to offer.

kstr92

As expected, this article has the liberals outraged, that is, until you need the assistance of the police. Listen, folks, we have you Leftists figured out and we know what makes your angry and the things that you despise -- law enforcement, the military, the church, the NFL, the NRA, traditional gender roles, and the flag (well, the flag just makes you uncomfortable, but given the opportunity, you'd abolish that as well).

neilyoungfan25

[thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

DickD

Go to Annapolis, Blaine.

public-redux

You left out NASCAR and Lee Greenwood Appreciation Day.

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public-redux

Don't think so. Lee Greenwood Appreciation Day is always well-attended in Frederick by all sorts of people. As far as I can tell, more folk come out for that than any other day of the year.

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shiftless88

Why should we trust the viewpoint of someone who went from one extreme to the other? That doesn't speak well for your insightfulness or introspective capabilities

vicdavy

kstr92 What branch of the service were you in,Mr Patriot? Probably weren't and if you had any nerve you would use your name. I would rather be a Leftist then a Leftover,[beam]

kstr92

vicdavy: I didn't serve in the military, however, that doesn't mean I can't honor the institution and respect the people who serve and sacrifice. Like I said, at the time I was too busy attending wine-n-cheese parties, watching art-house films and shopping for black turtleneck sweaters -- you know, things that liberals enjoy doing. Heck, I'm surprised you didn't call me a racist, or whatever label liberals like to throw at people who disagree with them. And since you would rather be a "Leftist then a Leftover," (it's than not then, by the way) maybe you should consider a move to Venezuela, or a similar Leftist paradise. Or perhaps you'll just stay put and wait until we're transformed into a Venezuela.

vicdavy

Of course you didn't serve,you let other folks stand up for your rights.

vicdavy

Calling someone a Liberal who is proud of the that label is hilarious! America was founded by liberals and will continue to progress and evolve into more inclusive and democratic society despite the right wing propaganda and Corporate Fascism Trump represents and the peasants who follow their Feudal Overlord while he tries to rapes and pillages out Democracy!

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kstr92

Only would a liberal consider common-sense values and ideals like respect and honor for law enforcement, the military, the church, and traditional gender roles "extreme." See, folks, this is the kind of crazy that we, the majority, are dealing with. True liberals, especially the Leftist elite, recoil at notions of God and family, while they ridicule small-town living and scowl at American culture. I didn't lurch from one extreme to another, I simply woke up, walked away and embraced normalcy.

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shiftless88

kstr92, my comment about your extreme now is not the positions you hold (which I don't know) but the extreme manner in which you talk about people with whom you disagree. Most people I know, liberals or otherwise, are religious, have strong families, love small towns and respect (or are) the police. Your description of liberals is so far colored that it is clear your position now is as extreme as you claim it used to be. I'm liberal and I've never owned a turtleneck sweater.

vicdavy

Read "Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces" by Radly Balko! jersey, Karl knows what it's like to be confronted by a criminal with a gun,cause he had to kill a man! You know nothing as usual! Too bad FCSD doesn't have a Smart Smart Man,like Karl, instead of Roscoe Coltrane.[beam]

DickD

During Jenkins campaign, he repeatedly stated it was necessary for him to protect us from the government. Jenkins is a loose cannon, looking for some place to explode, his weird ideas are not necessary for policing Frederick County and causes many laws suits.

FCDOA6789

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jerseygrl42

naturally bickel has to take an opposing view...wonder how he would feel if it were his life on the line....whether or not you see it, this has become a very dangerous world and one need look no further than Baltimore where many of our deputies served during that uprising of the criminal element

DickD

Karl's life has been on the line a number of times, jersey, he was a D.C. police officer, besides the second in command of the Frederick County Sheriff's office, when Jenkins was a deputy reporting to him.

stjohn42

Last time I looked, the military was giving away old ones for free. Why do we need to buy a new one?

hazel

Unbelievably stupid. Absolutely no need for either of the "tanks". Both are a total waste of taxpayer money. And as noted previously, the police are NOT the Army.

gdunn

They aren't tanks or military grade. Why shouldn't a SWAT team be protected in dangerous situations? This isn't Mayberry......

RetiredFPDLt

Wow. People posting on this page are out of touch with the needs of law enforcement. I'll give you a Glock 9mm and no other equipment and ask you to walk up to the front door of a home of a person who is armed with a high powered rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammo barricaded inside with hostages. You'll have a gun what more do you need? You'll be OK. Not one of you would even consider doing that.
The vehicle is to protect the officers and while its a huge expense you don't base your decision on its need on the number of times it might be used. Its like insurance. We pay thousands of dollars for insurance in the event its needed and don't give that a second thought.
I used the Peacekeeper that FPD is currently using when I served in the USAF in the mid 1980's. To say it is still viable today is a joke. Muskets are still firearms, maybe we should just provide flint lock pistols to every LE officer and call it a day, Rediculous!
Our safety costs money and this is not a waste of that money. Retied Lt. M. J. Burns FPD.

KellyAlzan

This is why we have the national guard and the U.S. Military.

Did u forget?

DickD

He probably doesn't understand the police role in spite of what he says. Yes, that is what the National Guard is for.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_States
"The National Guard may be called up for active duty by the governors to help respond to domestic emergencies and disasters, such as hurricanes, floods, and earthquakes.

neilyoungfan25

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bosco

What is the apparent need for an armored vehicle - besides further militarization of the police? I would like to see an analysis of the types of crimes for the past five to ten years, and how an armored vehicle would have been a factor in those crimes. Traffic stop leads to drug arrest? Probably not. Gang-related stabbing in Hillcrest? Probably not. Holdup at the local Stop-n-Rob? Probably not. Sexual abuse of a minor? Probably not.

Could it just be an issue of big boys need big toys?

FCDOA6789

[thumbup]

jwhamann

The Convair B-36. Now THAT was a Peacemaker.

vicdavy

What! Now Frederick is Budapest,Beijing or Prague? Violent crime is down by 50% over the last 20 years,but the Fear is up,huh?

sevenstones1000

I agree. Give these boys more dangerous killing toys and they will be itching to use them. Police are not military. And officer who doesn't understand the difference should not be on the force.

MCEDDE21

Practically all killings by civilians are impassioned (or a result of prohibition and the underground drug trade that prohibition has fostered). Police killings of innocent civilians are cold-blooded. Cold-blooded killers belong in jail, as do the politicians who are directly responsible for the drug trade-related murders.

FCDOA6789

[thumbup]

dtwigg

These types of armored urban assault vehicles are military grade, more appropriate for war than community policing. If they just had to have their new toy why couldn't they have saved some money and bought a refurbished vehicle at about half the cost?

dtwigg

This is a waste of money. Money that could be better spent on training and compensation. Frederick County has now officially become militarized beyond comprehension. We are no longer small town U.S.A.

FCDOA6789

[thumbup]

jwhamann

Just refurbish a GMC motorhome into an EM-50 Urban Assault Vehicle

armillary

Like it or not, we're Maryland's second largest city. I'll defer to Sheriff Jenkins as to whether we need a new armored vehicle or not. (At least he held off buying a Texas-style gunboat for patrolling our Potomac River border.) Moreover, I'm willing to think of the armored vehicle purchase as a jobs program in the truest Democratic sense. Our tax dollars go to Massachusetts-based Lenco Armored Vehicles, where they provide jobs for American workers. Massachusetts workers pay federal income taxes which fund highway improvements to I-70 and Frederick Municipal Airport. You have to admit that the reworked I-70 through Frederick is vastly improved from ten years ago. You don't think we built that ourselves, do you?

MCEDDE21

You can’t use the County’s brand-new Abrams tank? You used your old one twice in two years and now, you need a new one (interestingly enough, a bigger one than the FCSO got)? Puhleeze! Let’s keep the old one. I would much rather see the City and County spend $650,000 hiring prosecutors to put in jail the cops who killed Ethan Saylor, Jarrel Gray, and Daniel Alain Vail. (What heroes, who killed the handicapped Saylor and Gray! Vail was killed in a SWAT raid—for no legitimate reason.)

And, btw: How much money are we wasting--chasing, arresting, and jailing pot smokers? Hmmm? Let’s keep it real, folks. Our cops have virtually nothing to do now. Why waste more and more money on unjust laws and needless enforcement? Just so the cops can have more pals to go on night raids with bigger killing machines? (and I mean that in a good way)

KellyAlzan

What next, F16 fighter jet? ✈️

pilotguy299

There are some rifle calibers with pretty good ballistics & penetration capabilities available now, that were not so available, or that even existed ten years ago. More to the point, 20mm & .50cal rifles are much more common and available now than they used to be. I've even seen .50cal ammo at Walmart. Their vehicle is almost 32 years old, so you also have to consider that it may have an engine and transmission that weren't exactly maintained on a regular basis.

pilotguy299

Unless the metal has seriously degraded, it will still stop the bullets now that it could ten years ago. Provide the testing that the armor has deteriorated before making a claim that it is no longer ballistically rated. Even soft body armor will defeat the ammunition it is rated at for more than 10 years from manufacture, if it is properly taken care of. That said, there is ammunition readily available now that was not available (or as available) ten years ago that could easily penetrate the vehicle. FPD inferring that they can't use the FCSO's because of differing use of force policies, is quite simply a lame excuse. The policies aren't that different, and to infer that they are so different that they can't use another agency's tactical vehicle is just disingenuous. If an officer's life is at stake, you'll be using whatever is immediately available. It is an awful lot of money, but if it's needed once it's worth the expense. Waiting for MoCo or WaCo to respond with their's is not realistic because of traffic, and they may be using it for something else at the time the city requests it. I have no love for the FPD, and think that they do some things incorrectly. But this isn't one of them. They should be given the funding for this item.

garden whimsey

WASTE OF MONEY...and I meant to be in all caps.

FCDOA6789

Absolutely a waste our tax dollars!

Dwasserba

If it encourages people to join the police force, oh, fine. Have you missed the media coverage on police wanting friendly relationships with the public, but then seemingly outfitting themselves for a war zone? This vehicle definitely does not ssy, "Hi, folks! How ya doin'?"

KellyAlzan

In this day and age I do believe armored vehicles are necessary.

As far as ballistic ratings - how are bullets different today than 10 -15 years ago?? That's what I'm struggling with.

Can't we buy used vehicles? I'd suspect for 1/2 the cost?

shiftless88

The question is if the ballistic protection degrades over time. Kevlar will, metal won't. They should just fire a few test rounds at it and see. If it penetrates it, weld a sheet of metal over that section and you're back in business and know where you stand regarding protection.

jgrose79

All kinds of new larger calibers have been manufactured for all firearms. Different materials and metals have been used to create ammunition which can easily defeat metal. Rifles were always able to penetrate soft body armor. In fact most rifles can penetrate level 3 metal plates. The sherriff has an armored vehicle, the city doesn't need one. They can use the Sherriff's when they need it two times in 12 years. lol The city police simply put do not need this vehicle anymore! They didn't need it in the first place.

n01fu

But it looks cool driving up in one when they have those coffee with a cop things.

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