A discussion was held yesterday at the Frederick Friends Meeting house about the 287(g) program adopted by the Frederick County Sheriff’s Office.

The program, first implemented in Frederick in 2008, provides training for sheriff’s deputies by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. It allows deputies to inquire about the immigration status of anyone booked into the county’s adult detention center and begin deportation proceedings if appropriate. The agreement is up for renewal this month.

According to the Frederick Friends Meeting Facebook page the purpose of the discussion was to talk about the program’s impact on the immigrant community, “and steps we can take toward ending it [287(g)].”

Many at the meeting spoke about the fear the program instills within the immigrant community in Frederick, and that even those who are documented are afraid to go to the police with other issues such as abuse.

“You have hard working people who are raising families and trying to build lives [who] are living under this cloud,” said Mary Ann Ford who led the discussion. “There is a division between the immigrant community and the police and that means their [immigrants] safety is being undermined.” Ford is a member of the RISE (Resources for Immigrant Support and Empowerment) Coalition of Western Maryland.

Participants also spoke about ways to move forward and change people’s attitudes on the topic of immigration.

“Think about having to leave your family. That’s what these people [immigrants] are doing. I think we need to make people understand that,” one woman said.

Another participant said there needs to be a reach across the aisle.

“We need people from the other side who are rational,” he said. “If this movement is only comprised of people from the left and the center it’s never going to work.”

The discussion took a turn when one participant noticed that a man towards the back of the room was recording the meeting on his cell phone. When asked to identify himself, he said his name was James Grose, Vice President of the Frederick County Conservative Club.

“I wanted to hear their side of the story and also be able to broadcast their side of the story,” Grose later told the Frederick News-Post. “Let people hear. People can either agree with it or disagree with it.”

Other participants were visibly uncomfortable once it was revealed that Grose was recording.

“That someone would come to a meeting and record it is threatening,” Ford later told the Frederick News-Post.

But the discussion continued and Grose was asked to present his views on the subject.

Grose said for him, and the club, 287(g) is a matter of public safety. According to Grose, the agreement with ICE allows for sheriff’s deputies to get free training on other types of crimes such as drug and sex trafficking.

“We think this is better for the community than what people are making it out to be,” he said.

A video was also shown during the discussion which depicted various people reading stories of immigrants in Frederick being pulled over and asked for documentation.

Grose said that he does not believe in asking for documentation when pulled over.

“You shouldn’t be able to just go up to somebody and ask for their papers, that’s not America, that’s not freedom,” Grose said.

The discussion with Grose became heated at some points. When Grose used the term “illegal aliens” one man shouted, “no person is illegal.”

David Kunz of the Peace and Social Concerns Committee was glad to have another viewpoint brought up but was still disturbed by the circumstances.

“I did appreciate hearing his side but what is he going to use that recording for? If he was recording it he had a reason,” said Kunz.

At the conclusion of the discussion, Grose said, “I was not here with any intention of disrupting a meeting.”

In the end, both parties left hearing the other viewpoint, but with not much agreement.

For Grose, one of the biggest issues is that he feels the other side’s argument is based on emotion and not facts.

For those of the Frederick Friends Meeting, they said they want people in Frederick to become aware of the issues facing their friends and neighbors.

“We hope going forward that people will be awakened that right here in Frederick County we have an important part of our community...that are being harmed by this agreement,” said Ford.

“We want people to feel welcome here [Frederick County], we don’t want them to feel threatened, we don’t want them to be worried,” said Kunz. “We don’t want them to have to watch their every single little tiny step.”

Follow Katryna Perera on Twitter: @katrynajill

(76) comments

jagman

Mexico Deploying 15,000 Troops To U.S. Border To Stop Illegal Immigration Into U.S. https://www.dailywire.com/news/48813/breaking-mexico-deploying-15000-troops-us-border-ryan-saavedra We shall see if Mexico really follows thru on this. The threat of tariffs seems to be having the desired affect. And to those who claim to "know" why all these people are swarming our border, You don't unless you have been down there and walked the walk with them from the beginning. None of us really know what's going on. As far as asylum is concerned, if that was the motivating force they can easily claim asylum in Mexico. Ask yourselves why they aren't doing just that.

KellyAlzan

Reading some of the comments here. So sad. All you haters out there. What would you do to give your child a better life? So easy to judge when you are not in their shoes.

vodalone

287g is a federal program, if it were to be revised one day so that its participants were mandated to ask for papers of anyone it stops, do you really think Jenkins would opt out of the program? I highly doubt it. Because the programs content is solely written and developed by federal authorities this is a real possibility. Federal immigration laws are meant to be enforced by federal officials, not local LE. Nobody in local LE is preventing ICE, HSI, or DHS in conducting their operations anywhere on US territory. Unfortunately, Jenkins follows the law only when it suits his agenda.

phydeaux994

Actually vodalone, originally there was a 287(g) Program, the Law Enforcement Task Force, that did allow ICE trained Deputies to question people on the street about their immigration status under certain circumstances which the Sheriff’s Department was a member of. But ICE kicked Jenkins out of it because he was using it to profile Hispanics and arrest them for minor traffic violations. ICE later canceled that Program because other jurisdictions were doing the same.

vodalone

Did not know that, but that goes to show the broad effects of this program. IMO this program in its current form only should be available to local LE only within 100 miles of the northern and southern border.

mr_twist27

There is a easy solution for this. Dont get arrested for a crime and they wont have to worry about being deported thru the 287 program.

huskycats

His name is Jenkins and he won you lost. Get over it Kelly

KellyAlzan

Intelligent comment from you. As I’ve stated before, I’m glad he won. By 3%. The reason I’m glad, is every time he drives from his house in Lewiston to patrol, he has to think about how he, single handedly, got an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT a huge lottery payout. He, Sherf Chuck ‘Christmas’ Trumpkins, has enriched the life of a family of those he opposes. All deriving from ignorance on his part. Ignorance, that with a formal education most likely would not exist. Santos won. Jenkins, well.....he lost.

Samanthapowers

Exactly. He’s not the sharpest tool in the shed.

KellyAlzan

The 287 program was intended to capture illegal immigrants suspected or convicted as having committed serious felonys. I’ve shared this story many times here in FNPLand. And a couple years ago, someone who I suspect is a police officer in the area responded and attempted to tell me I was wrong. I am aware of a 16 yr old male from Honduras (whom I never met) who was riding a mo-ped on the golden mile without a helmet. He was stopped by the police, as he should have been. He was taken to the Frederick county detention center. And deported under the 287 program. Riding a moped without a helmet is not a felony. Therefore, the 287 program was breached by the fcso. Now, so I know about this particular incident through the Latino community? Or do I know about this particular incident from a source whom is employed at the detention center?

mr_twist27

Well you are wrong. The jail is called the Frederick County Adult Detention Center...not the juvenile detention center. By Marylamd law they do not accept juveniles there unless they are charged as an adult with a violent crime involving a weapon. The reason is that they dont want violent juveniles housed in the juvenile detention centers for safety reasons. No 16 year old has ever gone to the Frederick County jail, illegal or legal, for not having a helmet on.

KellyAlzan

For real. All that effort you set forth. And it doesn’t change a thing. It’s comments like this, that highlight the ignorance of those commenting about something they know nothing about - immigrants - illegal immigrants.

mr_twist27

It was no effort. And the only thing it highlighted was that your story isn't true.

KellyAlzan

on what premise do you have to deem the event didn’t occur?

mr_twist27

The State of Maryland runs all juvenile facilities and they do not turn over juveniles to ICE to be deported. That's their policy. I'm not trying to one up you on anything. I'm providing you facts to dispute what you are claiming. You haven't provided anything other then telling a story that you have no first hand knowledge of. Again either the person wasn't really 16 or they were charged with a violent crime that waived their status to adult court. I'm done with this argument, have a nice day.

KellyAlzan

And, I’m not interested in going back and forth back and forth with you about 16 yr old and helmets. “Did too” “Did not” “Did too” “Did not, I know” I’m not here to one-up

mr_twist27

The fact that the jail isnt legally allowed to accept 16 year olds for traffic violations, regardless of their immigration status. So either the person wasn't 16 or they were charged with much more then a traffic violation. All you are doing is spreading a rumor which you admit have no first hand knowledge or proof that it even happened.

mr_twist27

Additionally, the Golden Mile is patrolled by the City Police. The City Police do not run or participate in the 287 program. Explain how a city cop would arrest a 16 for riding without a helmet (not even an arrestable crime), drive them to the adult jail (violation of Maryland law and dept policy to take juveniles to an adult facility) and then on top of all of that you want us to believe that the jail accepts the juvenile who was unlawfully arrested and unlawfully taken to an adult detention center and they book him and deport him? Yeah, didnt happen.

KellyAlzan

Twist - I may have typed the wrong facility. Regardless if it was fcadc, juvi Hall, or guatmalo bay - the event still took place. And yes, he was 16. And yes, he was subsequently deported. Under 287g. Not for rape. Not for murder. Not for any felony! If my sharing an actual event bothers you - then I apologize! The news story at hand today quotes similar

KellyAlzan

Mr twist - have you figured out, I do have family that is local law enforcement? I’ve spent countless hours in cruisers. I know who works what areas. This is what I mean by one-upping! Stop presuming all commentors are clueless! Go back and read my initial post. Notice I made no mention of why the arresting agency was. Done on purpose.

DickD

We need to pass legislation protecting the DACCA immigrants. But 287 (g) is not bad if used right. We do need to protect our borders, but building a wall is a waste of money. At one time Republicans would never waste money and then came along Donald Trump and the Trump cult.

KR999

Border Patrol and ICE both think we do need a wall. They’re the ones who work the southern border and best know the situation along it so I respect their opinions over anyone else’s.

KellyAlzan

I have yet to see any credible facts stating that homeland security feel we need a wall. In fact, much of the border is not even wall buildable. Here is a NON PARTISON report about the border. It’s about a two hour read. But very informative... . . . https://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/story/flight-over-entire-us-mexico-border-fence/605855001/

KellyAlzan

Speaking of the 287 program. For some reason, the FNP has gone completely mum about a serious case in Frederick county stemming from the 287 program. It’s like ever since Sherf Trumpkins denied FNP reporter acces to his latest election party, the FNP has turned a blind eye to a few actions of the FCSO. Sherf Trumpkins, got the county of Frederick MD into some serious legal trouble subsequent of the 287g program. The FNP covered the incident / case hot and heavy. The victim, and illegal immigrant, Roxie Santos, sued the county and prevailed. As reported by the FNP. There was recently a settlement conference or hearing, to determine the amount of money to be awarded to Santos. The FNP has gone deathly quiet on the case. It’s not unusual for a settlement agreement to bar all parties from discussing the settlement. But.....the local media then usually published a story saying “case closed, an agreement has been made, outcome is sealed, no further information is available”. The FNP hasn’t even done that. Personally, I wonder if a lawsuit involving government can even be sealed? Does anyone know?

jagman

"Many at the meeting spoke about the fear the program instills within the immigrant community in Frederick". No, It's not the "immigrant community", it's the "illegal immigrant community". An honest debate cannot be had until the left admits there is a difference. And yes, I fully agree that employers that hire illegals should be fined and in some instances sent to jail. They are breaking the law.

KellyAlzan

How would an employer know who is legal and who isn’t? A police agency in the north west hired a police officer whom was in the states illegally. If a police agency didn’t know, what makes you feel Jimmy the Roofer would know?

jagman

You're making a good case for the e-verify program. If that were a hard requirement (and real jail time) fewer illegals would be hired.

KellyAlzan

E-verify. I was waiting for this response. E-verify is only as reliable as an applicant is honest. It’s a digital I-9 form. Ok, so, in other words, if you are here legally, and I am here illegally - and we are cousins - and I am about to work somewhere that uses E-verify - I would simply use your level credentials to get through e-verify. E-verify is only as good as the applicant is honest.

jagman

That only illustrates a flaw in the e-verify process. So, because there is a flaw, toss the whole thing out? How about fixing that flaw, passing a hard law requiring it's use and holding violators accountable? Doing that would likely result in fewer illegals coming here.

KellyAlzan

Jag - I don’t make the rules. And I’m not here to debate. I merely shared firsthand insight. Which is more than 96% of the commentors in this story have done. A lot of things involving government, whether it’s state, federal, or local, need improving or need to go back to the drawing board. And have loopholes. There are comments here from others that think employers have a magical ability to look at someone and know if they are legal or illegal. That’s not the reality. So then, their counter is “e-verify”. E-verify is not fool proof, either. Just so happens to be I’ve been around these issues (that people are posting), and I have some knowledge and history with.

shiftless88

jagman; if you are a legal immigrant from Guatamala I am guessing you are asked for papers if you are in a car that is pulled over. If nothing else you are generally assumed to be here illegally (there was a story in the FNP a few years ago about a couple from Spain who were here legally but got annoyed at everyone assuming they were illegal immigrants from Central America. This behavior is prevalent among the population and LEOs).

Comment deleted.
shiftless88

They can get harassed. In some states like AZ you have to be able to prove you are a citizen! Of course regular ol' white guys like me don't get asked, but brown-skinned folks with accents do.

Comment deleted.
shiftless88

basically legal immigrants are assumed to be illegal if they have brown skin and speak Spanish.

KR999

How is recording the meeting “threatening?” What is Ford afraid of?

sevenstones1000

The sheriff and his deputies. They killed a mentally disabled kid who wanted to watch a movie. They scare me. They assaulted my son when he was lost and trying to ask for directions.

KR999

The death of the mentally ill young man was tragic but it also was totally accidental. The two off duty deputies handled the situation as they had been trained and hopefully law enforcement nationwide will now have revised training in how to deal with incidents like this in the future. I don’t know the details of why you say your son was assaulted but I find an completely unprovoked assault by deputies difficult to believe. They don’t scare me at all. In fact, whenever I see on gassing up at a Highs or sitting in his car, I go up to them, shake their hand, and thank them for the fine job that the FCSO does.

KellyAlzan

Accidental excuses them? Even I know that individuals with Down syndrome must be treated and handled differently. Accidental?

KR999

Yes, accidental. Do you think they intentionally killed him?

jagman

Maybe it wasn't intentional, KR, but those deputies certainly grossly overreacted to the Saylor situation and it resulted in his death. It should have been obvious to all three that Ethan was a Down Syndrome patient. That condition is obvious to anyone with a brain. Thus the reason all three received a huge financial judgment against them.

jagman

The sheriff didn't kill anyone. Three of his deputies killed Ethan Saylor. Furthermore, the FCSO has a long history of deputies abusing the citizens...and in recent times killing dogs. That history runs across many sheriffs we have had in the county. That said, I know people who have been badly treated by Frederick City police as well. Only the State Police seem to be clean in this regard.

gabrielshorn2013

Recording someone without their consent is illegal in Maryland, unless it is disclosed beforehand.

KellyAlzan

Yes and no. The Maryland wire tapping laws are very very vague. Remember the Linda Tripp wire tapping case? Now, if you and I are chatting on the phone, or meeting together in private, and I recited our conversation - then I violated the Maryland wire tapping law. But, for a public meeting, that’s where lawyers will argue both sides. The mindset is - it’s a public meeting, so its par for the course that confidentional and sensitive dialog is not taking place, being its a public meeting.

KellyAlzan

Correction: RECORDED, not “recited”. Dang phone auto corrected on me

DickD

We all have that problem, Kelly.

KellyAlzan

Especially me, lately! It’s like “whoa slow down there speed racer and proof read”

KellyAlzan

Keep in mind the Sherf also got an illegal immigrant grant a huge lottery payout because of his ego, bigotry, and ignorance.

jgrose79

Not at a public event and not when you have a newspaper there recording and documenting the event by taking photos of everyone in the room. If recording the event was prohibited it shouldn’t have been made public, and it should have been held privately to inviters only, but ohhh, the optics of that wouldn’t allow them to claim how tolerant they are of alternate opinions.

KellyAlzan

I do agree with you. However, md wire taping laws do not differentiate public from private. Linda Tripp, her wire tapping of the blue dress conversation was private. But.....the case was dropped. There is very little case law in MD involving wire tapping. As far as I’m concerned - anything public - can be recorded and or videoed. If anyone is upset, then have the law rewritten so it’s not so vague

davidk21770

The issue was that he was not honorable about the recording. Instead of telling the group at the beginning that they were being recorded he began recording them secretly.

shiftless88

Recording someone without their permission is generally not appropriate.

jgrose79

In your opinion it isn’t appropriate, but neither is trying to hide what it is that you are formulating by asking people to not record your so called public event meeting which was listed on Facebook and claimed to be open for all. Our club meeting was live streamed. Our meeting was also professionally recorded and we had an ASL interpreter on site. We also sent out a press release to all the media outlets. Nobody covered it. Imagine that.

jgrose79

In the meeting the group was talking about ways to continue to use churches to push the political agenda to remove 287g. They discussed how they could work together to try to keep everything on the down low so that they wouldn’t be harmed by losing their IRS 501c3 status which states the a 501c3 may not substantially lobby for political organizations and legislation to be changed. It can be very vague, but in this case the churches are working with these groups because you can clearly see all their meetings continue to happen at the churches. Including the May Day event which communists handed out radical literature at the Trinity United Methodist Church. Yeah, sounds so respectful right? Then they question my honor? Sure.

jgrose79

PS: No reporting of that in the FNP article even though I told the reporter that it’s on the live stream video and it will be made public. So she should include it. Notice it wasn’t included? Go to our FB page and watch the video for yourself.

Lev928

The fact is that the 287(g) program only trains and authorizes non-federal law enforcement officers to screen arrestees to determine if they are in the country illegally. It is always ultimately up to ICE to proceed with the process and deportation thereafter. State, county, city and local law enforcement has never had the ability to detain and deport illegal aliens/immigrants. That can only be done at the federal level. On a related note, ANY non-federal law enforcement officer has the authority to detain a person that has an active warrant through ICE, regardless of the 287(g) program. All the 287(g) program does is reduce the initial work effort of ICE and HSI. Non-federal law enforcement does not -- and cannot -- actively seek out illegal immigrants (ie: a so-called round-up). It's also important to note that non-federal law enforcement officers CAN ask your citizenship status. It's a standard question during routine arrest procedures almost nationwide, and the 287(g) program is not a requirement, nor relevant. The few locales nationwide that have create policy or local law prohibiting their officers from inquiring about citizenship are violating the Constitution, federal and state law.

mdcommuter

Wasn't there a Pro 287(g) public safety forum last Monday, Jun 17, at the C Burr Arts library which the FNP chose not to cover. Not at all surprised since it was a conservative event.

KR999

Good point. It’s easy to see which side of the fence the FNP is on.

shiftless88

I don't know, was there? Do you have any notes from that meeting? Do you know for sure that FNP was invited? What else was going on that evening? It is a rather accusatory, factless post there, mdcommuter

KR999

That meeting was announced on WFMD’s Mid Maryland Live show a week before it was held. And the FNP didn’t need an invitation, they could have gone right in if they wanted to.

KellyAlzan

It’s 2019. Who listens to AM radio????

KR999

AM radio has talk shows that a lot of people listen to, try tuning in to Mid Maryland Live and hear for yourself. When I’m not listening to it I have on Sirius or I Tunes (where I can get stations from around the world.)

jgrose79

The press release for the meeting was sent to the FNP and to about 20 other media outlets. I know because I’m the person who sent the press release out and typed it up. That’s how the FNP came to me for comment prior to me attending this meeting. When I found out that the FNP reporter would attend this meeting I went so that I would be informed of this groups exact position so that I may offer our opinion in relation to their opinion. I also chose to record the meeting so I would be able to make notes later and be able to formulate any response I may need to make on what was said. I also figured it would be great to share what the opposition is thinking and talking about when it comes to the program in general. I can’t help that they talked about their clandestine operation which the FNP did not report on, but if you would like to see how I was treated once they found out I was recording and how they backed off all you have to do is go to our Facebook page and watch the livestream of the meeting. Yes, the FNP was invited to our meeting and about 4-5 people from the FNP were on that email press release I sent. No answer and no reporting. Pathetic!

Reader1954

start putting heavy fines on businesses that employee illegals. If they then can't get hired it will deter them from coming

KellyAlzan

So uninformed

fredneckian

Why is it uninformed to ask our citizens to obey the laws?

KR999

It’s not uninformed fredneckian. And to reply to your comment saying it is is something one would expect from someone who condones illegal aliens being here or even hires them.

niceund

If an immigrant is here legally, there's nothing to worry about. Illegal aliens broke the law from the time they entered the country. 287g only checks those that have broken the law again and are at the Frederick Detention Center. This means they've broken the law twice. If rules are followed and entrance to this country is done legally, we welcome them. It doesn't seem that hard to understand.

DickD

Agreed.

BunnyLou

Why do post writers refer to those here illegally as immigrants? Call them what they are illegal immigrant criminals..

KR999

Illegal alien criminals.

riccicc

If Kai and all the rest of the liberal socialist don't like 287g they have no one to blame but their exalted ruler Bill Clinton who introduced the 287g when he was still occupying the white house.

DickD

We should just turn them back at the border, but we also have a law protecting those seeking asylum.

donbey

Really simple- don't come illegally to this country and there wouldn't be a problem

phydeaux994

Even simpler-don't illegally hire those coming here illegally that know they will be hired by illegal employers. I have seen two ads in local papers recently, one for landscape workers, where the first couple sentences were in English, the rest of the the ad in Spanish. These employers know they will not be punished for hiring illegal aliens. Trump promised the Farmers at their Convention recently that he would allow their illegal workers to come and go freely, without fear of arrest through a guest worker program. How's that going Farmers?? American employers need these workers, even more if they could get them. Mitch McConnell will not let any Legislation to help with the Trump Border Crisis be voted on in the Senate. The Republican Freedom Caucus in the House will not allow any Immigration Reform Legislation to be considered.

petersamuel

I don't think it is simple at all for most of these people. They often suffer from gangsterism and predation in the countries they come from (Venezuela, Nicaragua, Colombia, Mexico etc) and think they can improve their lot by escaping to the US. This country has been built on that human impulse. It has been made great by offering a refuge over two centuries to people wanting a safer, better life for themselves and their children. And it is legal to enter the US and turn yourself in to the authorities and ask for asylum, so it is not fair to call people criminals for doing that. Our immigration laws are often contradictory and poorly administered, so it is sometimes not at all clear in respect to individual cases what is legal and what isn't. If it was "really simple" we wouldn't have the mess we have with immigration.

DickD

Not that simple because 40% come here legally and over stay their visas. It is easier, cheaper and apparently not being tracked. All we hear from Trump and his cult, is build the wall.

KellyAlzan

If life was only “that simple”. “Don’t come here illegally”. You have no clue what these people have been through or faced. 30 day trek from South America to the border with little food, water, and sleep. They’re not worried about health benefits. They’re not worried about a car. They’re not worried about an elementary school dance recital. They’re just trying to be safe. And as dick states, many DO come here legally. Many did not have to walk for 30 days. They overstayed visas.

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