Covid Press Cong (copy)

Frederick County Executive Jan Gardner.

Just days after County Councilman Kai Hagen (D) released a draft of a bill he hopes to introduce aiming to address racial equity and social justice issues countywide, County Executive Jan Gardner (D) checked off one of the bill's goals.

Gardner announced Thursday her office would add a Chief Equity and Inclusion Officer, which would assist her and other senior county officials in ensuring racial equity and social justice countywide.

Vivian Laxton, the county's communications director, said the officer would make between $77,008 and $123,213 annually. Gardner said she hopes to have the position filled within the next three to four months, and that the money would come of the contingency fund in the county budget.

"It's very clear that we need a person to lead this effort, and to really help deliver this," Gardner said of the officer's role in improving racial equity and social justice issues. "To do any kind of work, you need to have somebody do it, and so I think we have a number of key areas [to work on]."

Racial equity and implicit bias training, internal policy, legislation drafting, supporting minority businesses and other issues will fall under the officer's responsibilities, Gardner added.

According to the job description, the officer is "responsible for developing and providing overall management of a strategic framework, shaping, directing and advancing racial, gender, ethnic and social equity priorities, and achieving equitable opportunities for all residents in Frederick County," and reports to the County Executive.

Gardner's announcement comes after Hagen posted a draft of a bill on his Facebook page, aiming to ensure racial equity and social justice countywide, modeled off legislation passed by the Montgomery County Council late last year. While the bill hasn't come before the council yet, he hopes to have it officially introduced in the coming months. 

The draft calls for a chief equity officer position, and for the County Executive to create and submit a Racial Equity and Social Justice Master Action Plan for the county, subject to County Council approval. It also would require the county executive to submit a report annually of steps county officials are taking to fulfill the plan, and create a Racial Equity and Social Justice Advisory Commission, consisting of 12-15 members, among other initiatives. 

Gardner said the creation of a chief equity officer had been in the works for months. 

Hagen said in an interview earlier this month he's been pleased at the amount of public feedback on the draft, and added he modeled it off of what Montgomery County passed because it was a "good foundation" for combatting racial equity and social justice issues.

"The feedback in last two days has been stunning," Hagen said shortly after he posted the draft bill on his Facebook page. "Already, a good number of people have taken the time and the effort to go through it thoroughly, and make notes and suggestions."

Gardner said the new Chief Equity and Inclusion Officer will be important to offer perspective on how the Racial Equity and Social Justice Advisory Commission should operate, along with making sure their work doesn't conflict with the Human Relations division and Human Relations Commission.

She supports having legislation of some sort, but there's a lot of "prescriptive stuff" in Hagen's proposal that isn't flexible. There also are differences between Frederick and Montgomery counties, Gardner said.

"They're going to hire five people [as part of the legislation] and they moved people around and they just have a bigger structure of government, period," Gardner said about Montgomery County's bill. "And our community is different, so we want to do something that is customized to Frederick County."

"It's really important that the right people have a seat at the table," Gardner added.

Gardner said she's heard in several meetings with small groups that people are interested in seeing a more diverse workforce and more assistance for minority businesses, along with a good workplace culture in county government.

Council President M.C. Keegan-Ayer (D) said she saw Hagen's draft bill, and agreed with Gardner that much of the language could be overly prescriptive. 

She added, however, that she also has been meeting with small community groups in recent months, discussing diversity in job hiring and racial equity training among other topics. 

"We have to sit down and figure out how we can implement some of these suggestions," Keegan-Ayer said. "Are these suggestions going to give us the results we want to see, and how do we measure these results? … How do we make sure our hiring practices get us people of color, and them into positions of authority?"

Councilwoman Jessica Fitzwater (D) supports Hagen's proposal and its overall intent of ensuring racial equity.

"I absolutely think we need to be doing work on the racial equity front and review internal policies and procedures," Fitzwater said, adding the draft is so comprehensive, it may need to become several bills when it comes before the council. 

Hagen said he's pleased at the level of interest, and prepared for challenging conversations about the subject. He added the changing demographics of Frederick County during the past several years contribute to that.

"When a community is going through a lot of changes, there’s always going to be a lot of tensions," he said. "But we are going through these changes when the whole country is going through these changes, right now."

Hagen hopes to formally introduce some form of racial equity and social justice bill to the County Council before the end of the year. 

This story has been updated to clarify that Hagen's draft has not been brought before the county council or officially introduced yet. 

Follow Steve Bohnel on Twitter: @Steve_Bohnel

Steve Bohnel is the county government reporter for the Frederick News-Post. He can be reached at sbohnel@newspost.com. He graduated from Temple University, with a journalism degree in May 2017, and is a die-hard Everton F.C. fan.

(88) comments

jerseygrl42

so the taxpayers are already paying for not 1 but 2 organizations charged with human rights responsibilities but now we suddenly need a 3rd .....of course to follow the lead of Mont.....guess the others weren't doing their jobs properly

FrederickFan

This is a great idea. For those who want to understand what this is all about watch the press briefing by the Count Executive. It's much better than the article. The reporter must not have been there or watched it.

phydeaux994

I see the BTT(BullyTagTeam) has a new TARGET.🎯But they keep MISSING it.....!!👍

MD1756

"According to the job description, the officer is "responsible for developing and providing overall management of a strategic framework, shaping, directing and advancing racial, gender, ethnic and social equity priorities, and achieving equitable opportunities for all residents in Frederick County," and reports to the County Executive."

While the goal sounds good I doubt that it will work out in reality. MoCo is ahead of Frederick in this issue and the metrics they are looking at may be partly based on racial inequity (ethnic is harder to determine since only one ethnic group is looked at). Will they consider other factors and normalize the metrics so that discrimination is the only factor to be addressed. For example if a particular group has a higher percentage of new immigrants, higher percentage of low skilled/no skilled workers, higher percentage of those here illegally can one expect that group to have the same home ownership rate? Probably not. Account for all the factors and if there is a difference due to discrimination, that should be addressed.

As far as social equity, that will never be achieved as long as those with no children are required to pay more income taxes than those with children. In a time when we recognize human induced climate change (at this point primarily because of the population growth) is seems counter intuitive to provide a financial incentive for people to have children and make those who have no children pay extra taxes. How can anyone argue with a straight face that they are treating everyone equitably?

NewMarketParent

Actually not really. In theory, those children become tax payers. Think of them as investments.

awteam2000

What do you have against children 👶? You know life wouldn’t be sustainable without reproduction.

MD1756

I have an issue with population growth (7.8+ billion people and growing), not children per say. I have a problem with all the problems caused by population growth and I don't think we should be subsidizing population growth. What do you have against protecting the planet and other species on the planet by supporting policies that make people with no children (some of us by choice) subsidize population growth when we are against it? Go ahead and have children just don't tax me more because you do.

When people respond to my comments, they always talk about children being an investment and I should be happy to pay taxes to educate them. That completely ignores my argument. I don't say that none of my taxes should go to educate children, it should. I do say that I shouldn't be taxed more than the parents are.

Aweteam, what do you have against people with no children? Why do you think we should be taxed more than the parents are to educate the children? If you drive a car, you pay more taxes than those who don't (as it should be), but how is it equitable to pay more in taxes because one doesn't have children needing educating? Having children is a choice and that choice imposes a significant burden on state governments and more so for local governments. How is it fair that people with no children are asked to shoulder a greater share of the income tax burden? Not one of you have answered that. Are you for equity only if it doesn't impact your wallet?

phydeaux994

MD, overpopulation is your pet peeve so we’re making you the Chairman of the Prevent Overpopulation Committee. You have total control. You can pass Legislation to end the problem. Give us an outline citing the major points of the Bill you are going to pass. Maybe the first five I.e.??????? Thanks.

MD1756

Phydeaux, I've stated potential solutions a number of times before. Instead of just asking questions I've answered before, why don't you and others just admit that it is unfair for those with no children to pay more in taxes than those with children?

NewMarketParent

All of it is politics. You can't decry everything is politics while not acknowledging that the framing of equality as an attack on you is not.

Some programs work and others don't. That is life. Businesses, however good intentioned and well structured, fail. Programs that are intended to help traditionally disenfranchised and underprivileged may not work the way that we hope, but the solution is not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

It is absolutely essential that we develop a way to measure effectiveness of programs so that we can tweak them if needed or eliminate them if they can't be fixed. But I refuse to give up the fight for equity. It is noble and worthwhile. When you give up, you have given up on people or you have accepted that too many barriers have been purposely built in front of them to allow them to be successful.

A great measure of equality, IMO, would be to see the exact proportion of the population in an area in each type of position. For example, if AA are 4% of the population, then it would be reasonable to see 4% of the suspensions of kids in schools be AA children (which it is not) or 4% of the businesses in the county be owned by AA (which it also is not). Of course it wouldn't be a perfect alignment, but the fact that these measures are so drastically different shows that there is an equity problem.

yogib

Excellent idea coming from our County folks. It is time for making our County safe and welcoming for everyone, not just whites. I would suggest DickD for the Committee. he is one of a few in these nearly 50 comments that makes any sense.

DickD

While I would enjoy it, there are better people to fill it and in my opinion the person should be Black. And a Black person will understand Black problems better. Just get a good qualified person.

MD1756

Isn't that a discriminatory way of thinking? Blacks aren't the only minority group in this country who are routinely discriminated against. I think you've said before that one should pick the best candidate for the job regardless of race, ethnicity, etc. That should apply here too. Don't rule anyone out before you look closely enough at their qualifications. This person is heading an effort and I think the most important qualification is how they lead and direct the effort efficiently and effectively. There may be obvious simple and quick steps to take but those may address only a fraction of the problem. For addressing some of the long standing issues it will take data gathering and analysis specific to the county/city to identify what the problems are and which ones can and should be addressed by the government versus which problems are better addressed by someone else (maybe with coordination with the government).

wran

Henceforth, all residents of Frederick County must address each other as Citizen (last name). All Citizens will be required to pass a Citizen test issued by the Commissars.

Every Citizen failing the test will be required to take attend a months long re training course and take a re exam. Failure on the re exam will result in banishment to a remedial training camp until the Citizen's attitude is adjusted. The Citizen will remain in the camp until the Citizen demonstrates appropriate social rehabilitation.

NewMarketParent

I am really failing to understand this particular comment and why it's here.

hn_181

1984

NewMarketParent

I've read the book, but don't understand the connection here.

In fact, I made sure to read it right after the election of 45. It is striking the similarities to what we are going through now with all of the gas lighting.

bosco

[lol][lol][lol][lol]wran, very funny.

[ninja]

corgikid

Can someone answer the basic question that has been posted here in several places? What inequities is this position and the new Commission (scares me) going to correct - specifically? Is the new Commission going to tell Frederick business owners who they should hire or face consequences? What are we trying to fix? Where and what are systemic racist problems that will be fixed?

NewMarketParent

Why would you be scared of equity? Do you believe in equality?

C.D.Reid

Why don't you just answer the man's questions? Or is it you just don't have any answers? Legitimate ones, that is?

NewMarketParent

He seems to be able to express himself. I don't think he needs you to cape for him.

NewMarketParent

I'll bite. I don't think this specific position is to address plast inequities, but to look to help create a framework to process future legislation. I'm not sure why there is resistance though. You would think equality would be something we could all agree about unless you wouldn't want equality.

DickD

Great idea! Let me suggest Phil Lee of Frederick. He's a great Black person, you couldn't ask for a better person.

NewMarketParent

I know your heart is in the right place, but it would sound better to say.

"Let me suggest Phil Lee of Frederick. He is a person of great character and happens to also be a person of color."

bosco

Even better would be "Let me suggest Phil Lee of Frederick. He is a person of great character".

Period. 'nuff said.

Judge people for the content of their character and not the color of their skin. The left just can't seem to grasp that concept in their focus on identity politics.

[ninja]

phydeaux994

I think I just read the most HYPOCRITICAL comment in the History of the World, or maybe even the Universe. Or the most SARCASTIC. Either way, it’s definitely the most laughable. 😂🤣🤡😹

NewMarketParent

I think it is funny that you decry identity politics when everything you write is covered in white grievance and dog whistles which IS white identity politics. Self-awareness doesn't seem to be your strong suit.

It makes sense to have a person of color in a position to work as on a racial equity committee as they would probably be uniquely positioned to understand the ways in which race is baked into everything in a way that people who aren't of color can remain intentionally ignorant to. A non-POC could also fill the role, if they had some sort of credentials supporting their experience in dealing with equity for POC.

dtwigg

[thumbup]

DickD

I agree. I was thinking that a Black person was needed and focused on that.

bosco

How would pick a person solely on "color"? A official color chart? A DNA test? Maybe an official "Mischling" test like the Nazis used. Maybe the "one-drop" rule from the southern states. Obama was half White and half Black. He was identified as Black on what basis? I

It's a slippery slope DickD, and sure to bring out the haters.

[ninja]

matts853

I’m really scratching my head over how this position is suddenly needed in the wake of George Floyd’s death. I don’t get the leap from a desire for holistic police reform across the nation, which I think is wise and justified, to adding an extra layer of bureaucracy that has nothing to do with police and that’s tasked with doing what exactly? It sounds redundant to me. We already have stout anti-discrimation labor laws. There’s already minority and social agencies and programs in place that address inequities in business, education, housing, etc. What exact needs and shortfalls in services are needed that aren’t being met by what’s already in place?

NewMarketParent

This position has been needed for a long time. The challenge with anti-discrimination laws is that they people who discriminate have found ways to skirt them. Also, it puts the burden on the person experiencing the discrimination rather than the person performing the discrimination. A better solution, IMO, is having more people who understand how laws and rules can be used in a predatory and discriminatory manner, get to weigh in.

I always scratch my head as to why people are so afraid of more oversight when it comes to matters of race. I would think that if everything were already so great and wonderful, that job would prove to be unnecessary soon and we will have peace on earth.

DickD

Don't you think that person could interface with the police, along with looking for Black employment and yes, if drugs are a problem, help to resolve it.

elymus43

The next county election can not come soon enough. The voters need to wake up and vote for new people...........................

DickD

I can think of some good Black people. Wouldn't include Blaine or Jenkins.

matts853

It is not clear to me at all what this position will accomplish. It’s too vague for me to grasp at the moment.

KellyAlzan

Agreed. And I’m wondering is there even 40 hours worth of work per week for the position?

bosco

Work expands to fill the time available. First thing you know, this person will need a staff, then a bigger staff. Ever see a bureaucracy shrink?

[ninja]

NewMarketParent

Or... it could be that there is a lot of work to do and the amount of work is overwhelming.

Did you get fired from your job because they ran out of things for you to do?

MD1756

I believe there is plenty of work to be done, but one must be careful to work on correcting the right issues at the right level. Like most problems, this isn't a problem for only the government to fix and resources should be efficiently spent where they can be effective. For example can/should government dollars be spent to close the home ownership gap for those in this country illegally? I would suggest not. Should it be spent for those here legally I would suggest yes if that is what the people want (but not everyone wants to be a home owner so if that is set as a goal (such as MoCo is considering), a lot of background work needs to be done before implementing any solutions. Frederick can look at MoCo and try to learn what may work well and what may not.

mgoose806

Can someone at the post get a summer file photo of Kai Hagen. He is in a sweater? It has been in the high 90's all week. Or does he wear a sweater all the time?

KellyAlzan

and he looks like a total Karen in that picture

NewMarketParent

I didn't realize this was the fashion section. Are you that enamored with Kai that you want to see him model for you?

matts853

That’s how Tony Chmelik dressed ALL the time at council meetings - and that picture isn’t from a council meeting. He must have closets full of 80s vintage sweaters. Fortunately all of our current council members have the class and style to wear a suit when on the dais. Any other ridiculous observations you’d like to make, MG?

mgoose806

If Kai was wearing a Suite it would be as empty as on hanging on a rack in Burlington Coat Factory... right next to the empty sweater he is wearing.

phydeaux994

Suite???

matts853

I don’t anyone capable of wearing a Suite.

Hayduke2

Was it a luxury suite or a efficiency suite?

NewMarketParent

When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

It is amazing how the comments here reek of privilege and grievance. Why would equity hurt you and why are you fighting against it?

jsklinelga

NewMarketParent

Comments reel of privilege and grievance ? It is hard to believe that these folks really care about equity. They seem more interested in politics.

In a month from now the children in the black, brown and poorer white communities are going to be adversely impacted by distance learning. Plenty of unstructured free time. Increased drug use is almost a given. Increased unrest. Higher gang participation etc.etc.

This is a real, HUGE problem that should be the council's main focus if they really did care instead of this Mary Popkinsish superfluous political charade.

DickD

You sound more like a racist than someone interested in helping the Black community Jim.

NewMarketParent

Why is it so hard to believe?

Are you really that un-self-aware that the politics that you seem to subscribe to caters to white grievance and racism? You really should try to live in the shoes of someone non-white for a while to understand how policies affect people who are POC. Empathy goes a really long way and you really should start practicing more of it.

jsklinelga

NewMarket

I have seen the politics.

Twice I taught in Baltimore. My class was 99% Black. Ex cons who got Government loans, $14,000 for tuition, to learn Building Trades. They were promised job prospects at the end. It was a sham. Out of 70 to 80 graduates only one got a job.

Besides the tuition the Trade School got extra money for teaching ex-cons. It was very frustrating. I made many friends and had a 98% approval rating. (One young man offered one negative that I would wake him up if he dozed off) But I felt like I was taking part in cheating these individuals. You cannot adequately teach a wide range of building trades in a short time frame and the only thing they got was a $14,000.00 debt. It was a government program.

And I had some equally disturbing encounters working in other non-profits but I will stop.

No I truly believe the most pressing issue facing the black, brown and poor white community today is distance learning. We have had numerous affirmative action programs, some good some bad, but what is coming is unprecedented. Does anybody really believe school will start back up in the winter?

DickD

I am really trying hard to understand you Jim. I.read where you taught mostly Blacks, in Baltimore, to get them jobs in the building trades. You call it a farce because only one Black got a job. You also claim it is hard to teach all of the requirements for a building trades job..Why didn't you do something to change the training? Did you have the requirements for being a teacher?

DickD

Tell that to jsk.

micky

I've joked for years that Frederick wanted to become "North, North Potomac". Seems like it finally happened !

NewMarketParent

And why would being like a very successful, wealthy and affluent area be a problem?

KellyAlzan

North Potomac isn’t a bad area. It’s somewhat rural, native trees, and large lots. Not a very good comparison. When I see people comparing Frederick county to north Potomac, it tells me the person doing so doesn’t really know north Potomac.

DickD

There are some very beautiful and expensive homes in North Potomac. Just take a ride down route 28. Just realize that most of you cannot afford them so you will just have to drool.

Lemmy

Bigger government, higher taxes, more useless bureaucrats.

NewMarketParent

Sources cited?

C.D.Reid

Common sense, something you wouldn't know.

NewMarketParent

And you are the authority because...? If it was so common, it seems like there would be articles and articles on the subject from reputable sources, but there aren't. There aren't because it is a fiction made up on the spot to support the indefensible.

Lemmy

Some people just aren't paying attention......

NewMarketParent

@Lemmy....

Paying attention to what?

EBelt

I guess if the lifetime residents of Frederick county wanted to keep themselves in the dark ages, then they shouldn't have allowed their farmer buddies to sell off large swaths of land to developers for abuse. The years of electing pro-development republicans to office did not help your plight any either. If you build a bunch of houses, more people will move in, with more diverse opinions with demands of change. For those that do not believe their is racism in Frederick, you must be intentionally closing your eyes to it. I can name you several businesses in the area that allow their employees to constantly use derogatory terms for minorities without any fear of repercussion. It is amazing what people will say in front of you when they think you are white.

gramps

It’s easy to make statements that are unverifiable. Unless of course you would like to name the businesses?? By the way it’s spelled there not their

NewMarketParent

Oh I definitely know this. While I myself am not fair, I have several members of my family who are.

Many of them, in order to survive, worked a job where everyone around them assumed they were white. The stories they've told have given me have forever helped inform my understanding of privilege and white grievance.

Once you see how deep it runs and how many view this world and believe it is all a zero-sum game is amazing.

In a way, it is similar to the scene in the Matrix, where Neo has a choice between taking the blue pill and the red pill. Once you take the red pill and get an understanding of how racism works, it becomes hard not to see it anymore and you have to actively try.

You always feel it, but a lot of times, there decisions that are made around you in support of it that you don't see and don't realize why you feel like you are constantly swimming upstream. At some point, you start to understand why and while it feels freeing from being constantly gas-lighted, you realize there is much work to be done and that also starts to feel overwhelming.

Fiver

Thank you for posting.

DickD

If you are that light skin, you must be mostly white. Why do you insist on calling yourself Black?

NewMarketParent

I consider myself fair, but I have and society has always treated me as Black. I am the grandchild of sharecroppers who had the pay a premium on the land they bought because they had to use white buyers because the original owners wouldn't sell to African Americans. I am the child of a father who was smarter than all those around him, but had to constantly train and perform work for people who would be promoted past him. Why wouldn't I? My DNA has that same trauma encoded in it.

phydeaux994

And DickD, I’m sure you’ve heard of the “one drop” rule, haven’t you??

DickD

It doesn't matter to me, it's just that if you are primarily Caucasian and people treat you as Caucasian why not? And if you are accepted as Caucasian how has socity treated you as Black? Now, I totally agree not being happy with what happened to your ancestors. .You might not realize it, some Whites - especially Irish had a similar problem, not racial discrimination, but religious discrimination.

No, phy, I don't know the one drop rule.

NewMarketParent

@DickD... I am fair... I am still pretty brown and have never been treated as Caucasian. I don't think I have ever claimed to have been treated as one. I have people in my family who are far fairer (lighter in skin tone) than I am and some of them have moved through the world as Caucasian. Some because they wanted to in order to enjoy the privilege, some as survival so that they could feed their families and kept their mouths closed and were never asked. If you saw me, I don't think you could/would classify me as Caucasian. I have been many times asked if I was Latino.

girlpolitic

INSANITY has now totally consumed the county and city governments.

NewMarketParent

Can you please explain how equity equates to insanity?

Hayduke2

Back to the new handle jersey? Why the constant switching - think it fools folks?

gramps

Frederick county has finally become Montgomery county north.....

KellyAlzan

Incorrect. Wrong.

Montgomery county’s jobs pay over $100,000 per year. Frederick county’s jobs pay $12 / hour.

It’s PG County that has moved into Frederick Countu

MD1756

Incorrect. Wrong.
See, for example: https://www.indeed.com/q-Montgomery-County-Government-l-Maryland-jobs.html
any jobs that pay over $100k tend to be managerial or high number of years of experience. Some advertised positions for example are: Licensed Practical Nurse; Grade 18 $47,848 - $78,902 a year, or Police Officer $52,500 a year, or Manager I (Chief Operating Officer), Grade M1 $105,419 - $187,233 a year. So as you can see, managers may realistically make over $100k but not others unless they're there a long time or get a lot of overtime because the organization may be understaffed.

Frederick county has jobs listed at: https://www.governmentjobs.com/careers/frederickmd
Only Seasonal Park Ranger paid $12/hour (Sports referee paid $12 to $15/hour). the rest are significantly above $12/hr including Department Head - Fleet Services $88,334.00 - $106,000.00 Annually.

NewMarketParent

The median Montgomery county household income: $108,188

The median Frederick county household $88,502

Source: https://datausa.io/profile/geo

What is the problem with Mont County again?

MD1756

NMP, and how many households have 2+ wage earners? Kelly commented solely on Montgomery county's jobs. So I used only Montgomery county employee job openings. I'm not saying anything there is a problem with either MoCo or FCo. I'm just providing information to counter Kelly's unsubstantiated claims about pay. Compare housing costs in the two counties etc. and one may find that overall they aren't that different. Certainly not all jobs in MoCo pay over $100k (Kelly didn't mention household income) and in FCO, not all jobs pay only $12/hr or $25k/yr as one could infer from Kelly's statement.

niceund

Oh brother. Hagen strikes again.

Hayduke2

niceund - you do know that the 1950's have come and gone, right?

NewMarketParent

I am amazed how all of these people here are so in love with Kai. They keep bringing up his name everywhere. It is amazing how many people see equality as an attack on them.

BunnyLou

Big, bigger, biggest government possible in order to create hardships for the county tax payers. I suspect you are quite happy.

NewMarketParent

Or you could fight for a more equity and make these positions unnecessary, but... you do you.

Welcome to the discussion.

Keep it clean. No vulgar, racist, sexist or sexually-oriented language.
Engage ideas. This forum is for the exchange of ideas, not personal attacks or ad hominem criticisms.
TURN OFF CAPS LOCK.
Be civil. Don't threaten. Don't lie. Don't bait. Don't degrade others.
No trolling. Stay on topic.
No spamming. This is not the place to sell miracle cures.
No deceptive names. Apparently misleading usernames are not allowed.
Say it once. No repetitive posts, please.
Help us. Use the 'Report' link for abusive posts.

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