Md. State House stock art

The Roger Brooke Taney statue outside the rear doors to the Maryland State House in Annapolis.

After the violence in Charlottesville over the weekend, new calls are being made to remove the Roger Brooke Taney statue from the historical entrance to Maryland’s State House.

Since Sunday afternoon, hundreds of people have signed an online petition from Our Maryland, a progressive political group that spurs movements on social media, asking Gov. Larry Hogan (R) to take action to remove the statue.

Follow Danielle E. Gaines on Twitter: @danielleegaines.

Danielle E. Gaines covers politics and government in Frederick County, splitting her time between Winchester Hall and The State House. Having grown up in Illinois, she lived in New York and California before settling in Maryland.

(102) comments

rbtdt5

Two American's not to be forgotten this weekend

http://i.imgur.com/fGayTnj.jpg

rbtdt5

racism in america

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvRiZcgL-E8

rbtdt5

Trump isn't a winner, just all those against him are losers. lol...lol...lol...

rbtdt5

Picture worth a 1000 words. ANTIFA!!!

http://i.magaimg.net/img/161k.jpg

rbtdt5

Black people who were never slaves are fighting white people who were never Nazis over a confederate statue erected by democrats, because democrats can't stand their own history anymore and somehow it's Trumps fault?

rbtdt5

The armed wing of the Democratic Party meets the previous armed wing of the Democratic Party.

jwhamann

The USS Roger B. Taney is in the inner harbor somewhere. They can put his statue on board....

DisabledFrederickVeteran

Gov Hogan wants the Taney statue removed it appears the reaility of a minority majority MD staring to taking hold.

jwhamann

Would all this controversy of Confederate monuments and flags happened if it weren't for Dylann Roof?

DisabledFrederickVeteran

Is was confederacy ideology which contributed to Dylann Roof's white supremacist domestic terrorism.

Boyce Rensberger

It would be about where it is now. The number and frequency of racist incidents in recent decades was pretty high without that incident.

DeplorableLocalVeteran

White Americans are historically the most unloyal citizens in America, born into entitlement and privilege they still are ungrateful for all America has afforded them.

DeplorableLocalVeteran

Most republicans despise WW2 veterans yet support Nazi ideology, white supremacy and domestic terrorism because they are ungodly evil like radical Islamic militants.

gardenwhimsey

I still do not understand why Justin Taney takes all the blame for the Dred Scott Decision. Didn't ALL of the justices vote and Mr. Taney handed down the decision based on the majority of the votes? Would he have been allowed to override the majority vote and hand down a decision that did not follow the majority votes?

DeplorableLocalVeteran

Who's blaming Taney for help igniting the Civi War allowing the North to march to victory?

Heater34

Hello deplorable, Taney didn't ignite the Civil War. He was trying to prevent it. If any single person was responsible for igniting the Civil War I would say it was Steven Douglas. Douglas was an Illinois Senator and a strong supporter of the business interests and railroads in Chicago. Douglas wanted to organize the Kansas and Nebraska Territories because it would be good for Chicago business interests. The Southern States were opposed to organizing new Northern Territories without a compensating organization of Southern Territories. Basically, they wanted to preserve a constitutional amendment proof balance between free and slave states. Douglas dreamed up the idea of popular sovereignty to attract Southern support. Basically the idea was to scrap the Missouri Compromise and let the people at the territorial level decide if slavery would be permitted or not. Douglas led the Southern congressmen to believe they would get Kansas in return for Nebraska and the balance maintained. Bleeding Kansas and a very dangerous ratcheting up of tensions was the result. This was the chasm that Taney was trying to bridge with the Dred Scott decision. However, the chasm had simply grown too large to be bridged.

DickD

You should have added John Brown to the "Bleeding Kansas" remark. And John Brown helped to cause the Civil War too. He was captured at Harpers Ferry and hung at Charles Town, Va. (currently W.V.).

Heater34,
The Drew Scott decision, Taney's effort to fill "the chasm" as you put it, would have been immersed with suffering of "negroes" as slaves for eternity. With no hope of legal freedom unless manumission from their Slave Owners and never to become citizens. Right?

On the matter of confederate memorials, which were mostly built during the peak of the "Jim Crowe period"and racism was of the charts, I would like to see them preserved. But in a manner that fits our current cultural sensitivities.

Heater34

Hello Dick, Good to hear from you. What you said is very true. However, John Brown became radicalized as a result of the Bleeding Kansas Crises. Would he have attacked Harper's Ferry had Bleeding Kansas never occurred? We'll never know for sure.

Heater34

Hello aw, I'm not trying to defend slavery. I'm just trying to explain the facts as Taney was dealing with them. Black slavery was one of the worst abominations ever inflicted on a people and every day we should thank God it no longer exists.

Boyce Rensberger

None of the seven justices who voted against Dred Scott should be glorified in our country today.

public-redux

Are there statues of the other six justices somewhere? It was a 7-2 decision.

Boyce Rensberger

I'm pretty sure there aren't any public monuments to Hitler in Paris or in Jerusalem. Certainly none in Germany. And yet all these countries are keen to "never forget."

DeplorableLocalVeteran

Maybe because thier citizens don't tolerate an active insurgency by extremist against the government.

Boyce Rensberger

Taney wasn't Hitler, but the principle is the same.

jwhamann

Let's see what happens in Germany in a 100 years. Maybe they'll honor the good things Hitler did for their country.....

Boyce Rensberger

Is there any point in responding to that remark?

phydeaux994

Like???????

jwhamann

I was just being a bit sarcastic. After centuries have passed, evil people don't seem so evil by what is being taught about them in school....Roman emperors, Egyptian pharaohs. Regarding Hitler, you should watch the 2014 German satire 'Look Who's Back.'

Whoknows

This very well may be true. But there certainly are (and very sadly so) Holocaust memorials and abandoned concentration camps with gas chambers that have not been torn down. I think that's more of a solid reminder than any statue or monument could be.

shiftless88

Like the National Museum of African American History and Culture. Perhaps Taney's statue could be placed there.

DickD

True, and in nothern New York, where they took many German prisoners, there are still buildings where the prisoners lived. Up on Tug Hill, they didn't need to worry about any escaping in the winter as they got over 300 inches of snow and it was common to go down to 20 below zero, sometimes as cold as 50 below zero. You don't stay out in that weather very long - if at all.

Heater34

Hello Dick, Many people don't know that there was a German prisoner of War Camp in Frederick. The camp was located in roughly the same area on Rt 40 where the Stonegate Farms Development is now. The German prisoners were sent out to work on the farms in the area. I think for the most part the Germans were happy to be prisoners in America because they knew they would be reasonably well taken care of and that they would be able to go home after the war. Germans taken prisoner on the Russian Front didn't have quite the same treatment.

DickD

Boyce, Stroudsburg, France, is right across the Rhine River, from Baden Baden, Germany. If you go into the Cathedral there, you will find the entire insides was rebuilt after the war, as only the walls were partially standing. On one pillar, it is written; "Dedicated to the officers and men of the U.S. Army that freed us from the Nazis."

Boyce Rensberger

That's nice. Thanks for letting us know.

DeplorableLocalVeteran

A pro Trump Nazi group is planning a rally at WW2 Memorial how patriotic is that! MAGA!

DisabledFrederickVeteran

I personally would feel much better with a white supremacist President Bannon in the Oval Office at least I would know someone with a true philosophical spine and ideological compass was in control. Nothing about Trump exalts confidence he's the last person you'd want in a foxhole or in dark alley faced with thugs. We deserve better leadership, I'd take a certified white supremacist over a closet supremacist any day.

DickD

Not a problem, DFV, if you are in the fox hole together, you put your bayonet on your rifle, you suggest that the best place for them to be is to charge.

DisabledFrederickVeteran

After watching Trump's display of intellect the world is convinced that white intellectual supremacy is a fallacy. Ironically Trump's greatest detriment to the white supremacist community might be winning the Presidency and opening his mouth.

Heater34

Let's talk about Charlotte without the filter of the liberal news media. I hate and despise racism and Nazi-ism and all their works. However, I also love our rights as Americans including the right of free speech. That being said then the ultra-rightist groups had every right to peacefully protest and express their views in Charlotte. The mayor of Charlotte tried to deny these ultra rightest demonstrators their right to a forum to express their views until he was overruled by the court. Looking at the news clips it looks to me like the ultra right demonstrators were set upon and attacked by liberal counter protestors. After the violence we have seen in Berkley and virtually every other place that conservatives have attempted to express their views it doesn't appear that freedom of speech is very well respected in liberal America. It's more like liberal America is saying that we respect freedom of speech as long as you say what we think. If you diverge from liberal group think then you are automatically an ignorant white supremacist racist pig. Just really listen to Maxine Waters or Keith Ellison sometime. The latest Keith Ellison gaffe is his statement that Kim Jong Un who has murdered members of his own family is better than Donald Trump. Maybe all of us should sit down and really think out what we are all about. Are we a country that really respects the freedom of others to express what they think or are we just victims of the kind of group think that has repeatedly led to tragic ideological conflict throughout history.

shiftless88

False: The mayor wanted to restrict the march to a different, more open place.

Heater34

Hello shiftless, Let.s get back to the truth. The mayor didn't want to allow the rightist demonstrators the same forum that was allowed to the leftist demonstrators. Why do you think the court overruled the mayor? Because they didn't like his looks.

shiftless88

Have you actually read the court documents and decision? I doubt it, based on your grasp of the facts.

Heater34

Hello shiftless, Let's keep the conversation on track. The facts on the ground are the mayor didn't want to grant the rightist demonstrators the forum they requested. The court overruled the mayor. If we want to go into the detail of the court decision or the mayor's motivation for not granting the requested location for the demonstration then maybe we should go to a legal website.

shiftless88

"the ultra-right demonstrators were set upon...."; apparently you didn't see the news clip of the ultra-right demonstrator driving his car into a crowd of "liberal counter protesters"

Heater34

That's true the driver drove his car into the crowd after the situation became overheated by the conflict between demonstrations. This situation occurred after the rioting began. Perhaps if the rightist demonstrators had been allowed to freely express their views this incident wouldn't have happened. This is the kind of thing that happens when freedom of speech is denied. Maybe that's why freedom of speech is guaranteed by the Constitution.

shiftless88

Actually this happened before the rally was even scheduled to start.

Heater34

Hello shiftless, I don't think schedules had anything to do with it. It happened after tensions had ratcheted up. Tensions don't ratchet up on schedule.

shiftless88

And finally, I'm sure you are aware that there are limits to free speech. Yet you seem to ignore this.

Heater34

That's true there are limits to free speech. However, that doesn't extend to denying freedom of speech to groups that we don't like.

You know free speech doesn't include driving cars into protesters or bringing guns and other weapons to do harm to a free speech march unless expecting, promoting and looking for violence. That's called Terrorism. Right?

Heater34

Hello aw, First, there is no excuse for driving a vehicle into a crowd of people regardless. That's terrorism pure and simple. That being said, in view of the recent history of leftist violence at rightist demonstrations I wouldn't call the rightist demonstrators wearing riot gear and protecting themselves from attack terrorism. It sounds more like self defense to me.

DisabledFrederickVeteran

Maybe we should consider naming steets in black communities in Frederick County after Taney as a token of appreciation for igniting the Civil War and allowing blacks and liberals to defeat the confederacy.

Heater34

Wow! I didn't think anyone could be more ignorant of U.S. History than our esteemed anti Taney alderperson. But Danielle has proved me wrong.

DisabledFrederickVeteran

We should not remove reminders of how evil and inhumane many of our forefathers were to black Americans maybe we should consider constructing more to highlight the deranged temperament and tolerance of these often celebrated Americans.

Whoknows

History is not there to like or dislike, love or hate. History is there to teach and serve as reminders of past lessons, both good and bad! The statues and monuments should remain! Partisan politicians should not have the power to dismantle/erase history simply because someone or some extremist group is "hurt" by it! You may have greater, deeper issues if you're that offended by a statue or a monument. Don't try to erase history and lessons learned for they may repeat themselves. Be careful what you wish for.

shiftless88

So are you going to supply the funding for a King George statue in downtown Frederick? Let's put up a statue of Mussolini while we are at it; he played a big part in MD history (how many Marylanders fought and even died to defeat him?).

Whoknows

shiftless, LOL, what a ridiculous and far-reaching comment. I wouldn't supply the funding for any statue unless I purchased it for my own home!

shiftless88

So you are okay with King George's history being erased from US history? If you feel that strongly, perhaps you should put one up in your front yard.

DisabledFrederickVeteran

The reaility is White supremacist aren't willing to die for thier cause because they aren't 100% committed this is all about them attempting to instill fear and persevere an unequal economic playing field in the USA. Do you know what they call a white supremacist in prison? A hair braider.

DisabledFrederickVeteran

Let's be clear the confederate states didn't decide to stop the War on America they were beat down by liberals and blacks and surrendered instead fighting to the death and now under the guise of the GOP, Trump, Russia, Nazism and other domestic terrorist groups these traitors are attempting to launch another racial jihad against America.

jerseygrl42

Taney Statue and Russians are about all the lefties have to talk about, ...and the beat goes on and on and on....

Jim Hartley

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! Jersey, you crack me up!!! You didn't mention the 7 deadly sins!!

shiftless88

As opposed to the righties; who only want to discuss which NFL player decided not to stand at attention for the National Anthem. Weighty things like that, not silly things like the integrity of our election process.

ma23464

I remember standing before the Taney statue during a 6th grade field trip. The teacher said who it was and what he did. I remember wondering why do we have a statue of this person celebrating them.

I am all for teaching and celebrating our heritage. I see General Lee monuments as being way different then this man. Lee was fighting for his state of Virgina. Even though Lee owned slaves he advocated for the emancipation of them. Lee saw the institution of slavery as a necessary evil of the times and his situation.

DisabledFrederickVeteran

Even though The Dread Scott decision determined blacks weren't adequate to be citizens it did little to quell the procreation appetite for Africans by our forefathers. Not good enough to vote but good okay to bear your child?

teapartier

"it has been frequently remarked, that it seems to have been reserved to the people of this country, by their conduct and example, to decide the important question, whether societies of men are really capable or not, of establishing good government from reflection and choice, or whether they are forever destined to depend, for their political constitutions, on accident and force".

-Federalist # 1

public-redux

As much as we esteem the ideas in the Federalist Papers, it would be well for us to remember that the authors of those papers failed to achieve their objective.

Heater34

Hello Public, I think at least one of the authors of the Federalist Papers, Alexander Hamilton" achieved his objective. A highly centralized government.

teapartier

I disagree, they did meet their objective. The "papers" where written to gain support for the states to ratify the Constitution. And on March 4th 1789 a new government was formed and their objective was met. However the generations coming after them have slowly chisel away at it to the point that it's sole meaning rests in the opinion of 9 people in black robes. So, whatever you think it say's or how it should be administered is determined by the Supreme Court. This was the case with Roger Taney. His very unpopular decision was finally superseded by the same document that gave him and his court the power to make the decision in the first place. Eight years after Dred Scott the 13th amendment was ratified and adopted. Again their objective was met.

public-redux

No, the papers were written to persuade the New York legislature to ratify the constitution before recessing. "Publius" was concerned, with good reason, that New Yorkers might not want to ratify and, without NY, the country could well be doomed. (See a map.) The constitution would require states to cede authority to a more central government and NY had a lot to lose. Far more than most other states. Despite the efforts of Publius, the NY legislature recessed. The legislators went home to see their constituents. Fortunately for all of us, the anti-democratic efforts of Publius failed.

DickD

Yes, Gladys, they needed New York to be contiguous. As you say; look at the map. You could not join New England to the other states without going through New York.

Heater34

Hello public, In thinking about this I believe the federalists of this time were a lot more concerned with Virginia. Patrick Henry and several of the older patriots were opposed to the Constitution. The country could have come into being without New York. New York would have ultimately been forced by political and economic circumstances to ratify just like Rhode Island. However, it couldn't come into being without Virginia. Virginia had the ability to go it alone and Virginia's decision would have also had a powerful influence over the remaining Southern States. After all it was Virginia that pulled the remaining Southern States into the revolution to begin with. The early federalists had one ace in the hole. They had George Washington and the people trusted Washington. If Washington had not been directly involved I'm not sure the Constitution would have been ratified at all or at any rate not in the manner it was ratified.


public-redux

Heater--so explain why Publius started each Federalist Paper with 'To the People of the State of New York" and published them in New York newspapers.

I'm not saying the Federalists weren't concerned about VA. Just that the Federalist Papers were specifically targeted at the NY legislature and even more specifically to spur it to act before legislators could go back to their districts and be influenced by their constituents.

Heater34

Hello public, Since the Publius letters were largely authored by Alexander Hamilton and John Jay both New Yorkers with help from Madison They would have been initially published locally in New York. In those days there were no effective copy write laws. As a result stories were readily picked up from one newspaper and republished in newspapers throughout the country. So anything political published in New York would be republished in Boston, Philadelphia, Annapolis, Alexandria, Richmond, Raleigh and Charleston. Although the Publius Letters may have been directed towards the New York Legislators the writers were well aware they would be re-published up and down the Atlantic Seaboard. They were reaching out to a larger audience and New York as a port city was a convenient starting point.

public-redux

"They were reaching out to a larger audience..."

That is not at all my understanding from several histories and biographies.

Heater34

Hello public, Not all writers of history are necessarily looking at the larger picture. They are just considering the immediate facts. They are not considering the way that newspapers operated in the 1700.s. There was no Associated Press or any other central source of news outside of each newspaper's local area. So it was normal practice to pick up stories from other newspapers. The newspapers from coastal cities such as they were traveled up and down the Atlantic Coast as part of the coastal trade. Naturally ships involved in the coastal trade carried hometown papers along with their cargo. If local publishers saw any story that they thought would interest their readers they just simply lifted the story from the out of town paper and re-published it. Since every state was debating ratification at relatively the same time the Publius Letters would have made great copy in other cities and towns. I rather doubt if most historians have considered this fact. Also, Hamilton and John Jay couldn't directly address people outside of New York because they would have been seen as outsiders interfering in local political matters. That's one good reason for using the pen name, Publius and initially directing the open letter to a local audience but they knew the letters would be re-published far and wide.

public-redux

Heater, I don't disagree with much of what you've written (except for the part about historians not considering how news traveled). What you've written is what I regard as common knowledge. But none of it contradicts my point.

Boyce Rensberger

We must teach and remember our history, especially for the evil in it, but we should not celebrate the evildoers with statues in their honor.

Nicki

Totally agree, Boyce!

Heater34

Hello Boyce, Honestly, I really can't understand why a well respected jurist who was doing his duty by interpreting the law as it existed in his time should be considered as an evildoer. If the people disagree with a law then it is within their power to change it. It is not within the power of a jurist to change laws that only the people and their elected representatives can change. The laws underlying Taney's decision in the Dred Scott case was changed by the thirteenth amendment ten years after Taney's decision. Up to that time the Dred Scott decision was well rooted in the law and Taney had no right or power to change it.

Boyce Rensberger

Cases don't rise to SCOTUS when the law is clear. It certainly wasn't clear to the two justices who voted against Taney and the majority.

Heater34

Hello Boyce, Good point. Maybe the judges who dissented knew their opinion wouldn't prevail and perhaps they dissented because they were alerting the people to the need to change the laws. The conflict in government at this time was not over slavery itself but over the right of the government to regulate the extension of slavery into the territories. Since slaves were property the rights of the slaveholders to take their property into the territories was in question. The Constitution was very careful to protect property rights and I think this was the issue the people and their representatives needed to clarify. The thirteenth amendment finally clarified the question. Let's face it SCOTUS is also a political body just like the other branches of government.

Thewheelone

[thumbup], Boyce!

DisabledFrederickVeteran

We can't sanitize our racist history no more than Trump and republicans can sanitize Obama presidency

DickD

Miller was right, when he said; “While there is a flawed history surrounding Justice Roger Taney, he was not a Confederate figure. As a student of history, I personally believe there is greater value in educating and providing context to Justice Taney and the inflammatory language of the Dred Scott decision rather than removing his statue from the State House grounds,” Miller said in a written statement.

It would be my preference to keep the statue, but if it is going to cause a few hot heads to cause violence; it should be removed to a museum. There have been bad people in the past, there will be bad people in the future, but if moving the statue resolves anything, move it.

Jim Hartley

Well reasoned and well said.

DisabledFrederickVeteran

Taney's decision allowed millions of hard working blacks to come to America and transform America into a global economic juggernaut and military superpower. We should not remove the Taney statue it represents a significant milestone of many which blacks have made to Making America the Greatest Nation Ever!

DeplorableLocalVeteran

Achieving

DeplorableLocalVeteran

White supremacist = white trash who blame high minorities and women for thier unwillingness to crack open a math book and improve their lot in life.

DisabledFrederickVeteran

We should celebrate our slave holding forefathers who brought Africans to the New World to work the fields and kitchens lazy whites wouldn't.

jsklinelga

"No racism" - the FNP sets a low bar for it's standards.

DickD

Certainly another way to look at it, DFV. A good one![lol]

jwhamann

I think if the non-racists would just ignore the racist groups that there wouldn't be any violent protests. Just laugh off the neo-Nazis. What's the worst that happen?

Fawned

The worst that could happen is they kill you!

DisabledFrederickVeteran

Didn't the world ignore the Nazis once before?

sevenstones1000

Yes, and ignoring them worked out really well, didn't it?

jwhamann

No. A war happened and they lost.

Nicki

Good point, DFV!

jwhamann

Not if you're not there at the rally. In Charlottesville both sides were guilty of being violent. The news photographers stirred them up, too.

phydeaux994

Wrong jw, the anti-protesters were attacked by the White Nationalists, Nazis, and KKK who were armed and carrying torches starting Friday night. Some of them were dressed in riot gear jw, and their intent to harm was advertised long before they came to Charlottesville. The anti-protesters fought back as I hope you would if attacked by terrorists. No true American can justify the attacks of the self proclaimed evil, vile haters. You are wrong jw, to try to do so.

jswalker1963

OK, let's back up the blame wagon here. If the white hate groups had not been there in the first place none of the violence would have happened. A statue tells very little of history, removing them only lessens the celebrity of the person portrayed, it does nothing to whitewash history as some would claim.

Welcome to the discussion.

Keep it clean. No vulgar, racist, sexist or sexually-oriented language.
Engage ideas. This forum is for the exchange of ideas, not personal attacks or ad hominem criticisms.
TURN OFF CAPS LOCK.
Be civil. Don't threaten. Don't lie. Don't bait. Don't degrade others.
No trolling. Stay on topic.
No spamming. This is not the place to sell miracle cures.
No deceptive names. Apparently misleading usernames are not allowed.
Say it once. No repetitive posts, please.
Help us. Use the 'Report' link for abusive posts.

Thank you for reading!

Please log in, or sign up for a new account and purchase a subscription to read or post comments.