Frederick County Councilman Kai Hagen’s decision to interject himself in what appeared to be a lawful traffic stop being conducted by a sheriff’s deputy last month was wrong.

Hagen, who was with his wife in the area of U.S. 15 and Catoctin Furnace Road on June 20, said he pulled over near the traffic stop as a “concerned citizen” and wanted to make sure the motorist, who was Black, was OK.

The deputy recognized Hagen and told him to leave because he was blocking the road and interfering in the stop. Hagen said he would leave but not until the motorist indicated he was fine, which he did. Sheriff Chuck Jenkins said the driver ultimately left with two warnings.

The situation came to light this past week during a live interview with Jenkins on WFMD. Hagen eventually called in to the show and the two debated what happened.

Jenkins told Hagen that the councilman had no business interfering in what the sheriff called the “lawful duties of a deputy.” He said the deputy made the stop based on a clear violation and Hagen should have stayed out of it.

“This is outrageous. Who in the hell does he think he is?” Jenkins said during the broadcast, referring to Hagen.

Jenkins, in an email to the county executive and council leadership, suggested Hagen broke the law, which could have led to the councilman’s arrest, or at the very least, him being cited by the deputy.

According to the accounts of both Hagen and Jenkins, there was no sign that the motorist was under duress. From all accounts, the driver remained inside his vehicle while the deputy spoke to him.

Hagen suggested that he didn’t think the driver was speeding, so that’s why he questioned the stop. As we all know, there are plenty of reasons for members of law enforcement to conduct a traffic stop. In this case, it was a tag violation.

On the radio show, Hagen defended his actions by pointing to recent nationwide instances of police violence toward Black people. And while there is need for this debate nationally, Hagen didn’t need to try to make that point on this particular evening along U.S. 15.

By doing what he did, his actions potentially put the motorist, the deputy and Hagen himself in danger.

Even Council President M.C. Keegan-Ayer — a fellow Democrat — couldn’t offer much support for Hagen.

“I’m at a loss to understand what council member Hagen was thinking,” she told The News-Post.

A day after the radio show, Hagen reaffirmed that he believed he was in the right for doing what he did, saying his actions “seemed reasonable.”

Meanwhile, the sheriff reiterated that Hagen crossed the line and needs to go.

We don’t expect that to happen, and frankly, while we agree that Hagen was in the wrong, we’ll leave it to the voters to decide whether he deserves to continue serving the county. (Hagen announced in March he will be running for county executive in the next election.)

We do agree with one part of the sheriff’s request: Hagen owes the deputy, who once again appeared to be doing everything by the book, a formal apology.

(162) comments

westiemom

I've been trying to be more aware of what I can do as a white American. What Hagen did is exactly what we've been told that we should do. If something looks amiss, stop and ask, "Is everything ok?" Frankly, I was shocked by the number of people who think this is the wrong thing to do. I could cast an opinion on this, but I think that people's argument against doing this speaks for itself.

sdm817

I can not believe Kai is wasting his time in Frederick County. He should be assisting other drivers in need . May I suggest he tries his approach in inner city Baltimore. Please record it. I would love to see how you make out.

rb789

I do not like to criticize others unless absolutely necessary. In this case, Mr. Hagen deserves criticism. He didn't just observe the traffic stop, he needlessly created a dangerous and problematic situation. As the FNP indicated in their view, Hagen was wrong to interfere in the police officer's duties the way he did - which could have put all parties in danger. If one has observed Mr. Hagen's past actions, his personality traits become clear. It's no surprise that Sherrif Jenkins or others may exclaim "who does Mr. Hagen think he is?!" Mr. Hagan's past conduct proves he can be extremely arrogant, pompous, radical, impulsive, and lacks credibility as he has at times, been very dishonest in his statements and treatment of others. This current traffic stop incident reflects poorly on Mr. Hagen and is a result of his own arrogance and lack of judgement. Frankly, many may agree that Hagen should be removed from office as Sherrif Jenkins suggests. If he doesn't get removed now from the County Council - the next election can not come soon enough.

Lastly, Mr. Hagen has a tendency to over-react and I agree with other commentary posts noting that it's practically racist that Mr. Hagen stopped to become involved in a traffic stop by police because he saw a black person in the car. Presumably, Mr. Hagen has never stopped to interfere at traffic stops when a white person is in the car.

My deepest apologies to everyone but I am going to comment one more time because this is something the FNP probably knew but failed to disclose

Minor Details: Sheriff Chuck Jenkins and Deputy 1st Class Charles Jenkins Jr.

Sheriff Jenkins never mentioned his son’s involvement in the traffic stop

No media outlet has reported the deputy’s name involved in the June 20 traffic stop, nor did Sheriff Jenkins reveal his son’s involvement in the incident.

FoxNews.com reported the June 20 incident involving Jenkins Jr. and Hagen.

But Jenkins Sr. failed to reveal in his email to FoxNews.com reporters Andrew Murray and Houston Keene that his son, Jenkins Jr., was the deputy involved in the now-infamous traffic stop.

According to Frederick County deputies who requested to speak to A Miner Detail on the condition their identities aren’t revealed, Sheriff Jenkins does not want the public to know that his son, Jenkins Jr., is a Frederick County sheriff’s deputy.

https://aminerdetail.com/chuckjenkinskaihagen/

Hayduke2

Amazing that he "forgot" to mention that minor detail about his son being the source - also, apparently, with no cause for doing so the sheriff recently added a second, un-supported and hearsay call in to the same radio show and said Mr and Mrs Hagan had another encounter 9 months ago - an un-named deputy thought he recognized Kai based on seeing a recent photo and is pretty sure that it was Kai who was involved ( even though the vehicle described is not one ever owned by Kai ). I have mixed feelings about the incident but the sheriff's response and actions is over the top, not in a good way.

Awteam2021

JSK, Thinks the hilarity of the new jest is not Hagen’s mistake but that Chuck “ Bull Connor “Jenkins - pulled of a political stunt by tattle-telling on Hagen. Jenkins called into a sympathetic ear, am 93 (WFMD) to claim wronged (after not getting satisfaction from the attorney general, the county council or the county commissioner) that Hagen dare stop to inquire why an elderly black man was pulled over at the intersection of Catoctin Furnace Rd. and Black Mills Rd. That created an opportunity for Chuck to (whine) smear a political opponent over a none event.

jsklinelga

I saw 133 comments and it peeled my curiosity. This is what is discouraging about the FNP comment section and truthfully is a perfect microcosm of the liberal media at large.

A small group dominates this section and they post and repost and repost feeding off each others bias and slanted views until they must feel their opinion is validated. Much the same as the MSM. A group of outlets run the same story, often slanted and factually incorrect, over and over, employing the same buzz terms, until they feel their biased and factually inaccurate account most be fact by the number of times it is discussed. We have seen it happen near countless times times.

But the hilarity of the new jest is not Hagan's mistake but that he was called out in the medias for mistake (WFMD). Go figure.

Yeah we need to get the comments to at least 150...so keep posting....I don't think any editorial has EVER gotten this many comments....Heck I unusually never even read them...so let's get the comments to 150....

Plumbum

I recall an immigration related story having close to two. As in two hundred.

Awteam2021

JSK, correcting misinformation; the incident wasn’t on Rte 15, the driver didn’t received citations, the officer wasn’t searching for fentanyl, yes you can observe police actions and Kai didn’t stop as a political stunt when Chuck was the one who brought the incident to everyone’s attention are just facts. To point out that misinformation isn’t being bias or slanting views.

gabrielshorn2013

Aw, written warnings are a subset of citations that do not carry a monetary or points penalty. They are the lesser of the other classes of citations. There is a written record that is kept, including the reason for the stop, the actual citation(s) and any required follow up. No, most searches do not start out looking for for an illicit substance, such as Fentanyl. However, once the vehicle is stopped, the officer uses his training to search for clues of other illegal behavior during the stop investigation. In this case there were none, and the driver received his written warning and moved on. Other times the officer sees clues that lead to additional citations, or arrest (see the baker's dozen of FNP stories I provided to pickles below). One such stop apprehended a murderer. There was no misinformation in either of these facts, and it was clearly stated below. Your earlier post described what the actual written warnings were for. Since it was not reported in any of the FNP stories, where can I find that information?

Awteam2021

Gabe, give it a rest. You called it a citation, claimed he paid a fine, now wanting to stretch the definition of citation. Please spare me.

Citations and warnings are two different things. Tickets or citations are given to drivers by law enforcement officers when the drivers are caught violating traffic laws. Where warnings carry no monetary fine and will not impact your insurance rates. Warnings can be as little as a verbal warning. There’s a clear difference in the transaction.

When suspecting drugs there’s a clear police process which includes multiple police on scene.

Try https://www.courts.state.md.us/district/selfhelp/traffic

gabrielshorn2013

Aw, please show me where I ever said he paid a fine. You'll be looking for a long time because I never did. I also never equated written warnings with more serious citations for moving violations. That’s on you. They are not the same, so stop trying to conflate the two. A written warning is a subset of the types of citations that may be issued for an offense during a traffic stop. A written record is still kept at the offices of the issuing agency, whether it be MSP, FCSO, or the various municipal departments. Although those citations do not appear on your driving record, or affect your insurance, they can nonetheless be recalled by the issuing office. They may have given you a break the first time, but you won’t get a second one.

How does the officer suspect drugs in a routine traffic stop? Unless it is blatantly obvious, such as a tip that a vehicle with license plate number XXX-XXX is carrying an illicit substance, thus having an immediate multi-vehicle response, the officer makes a traffic stop, senses something wrong, and then requests backup, resulting in the second (or third, or fourth) vehicle arriving on scene. Please check with any law enforcement officers you may know. I also suggest that you read the links that I provided earlier. You still can’t come up with a reference to your claims?

Gab...

Well after my post ...we only need 5 more posts to get the comments to 150..which is what Kai and the FNP would like to see..so you can please answer me this question?

Which god is your favorite god.....also i don't read your posts thoroughly but at first glance you still don't seem to have gotten any point I've tried to make..? So let's move on to talking about god okay? or gods...you can pick.

Which god is your favorite Gab..you know mine it's Loki god of mischief...also I am a god too. At least Happy sees me that way? Do you see me as a god too Gab?

gabrielshorn2013

Do I see you as a god, pickles? No, but now I do see your responses as insincere, stirring the pot for sport, so your worship of Loki is appropriate. Lord of mischief and deceit. Fact is pickles, you haven’t made any cogent points here, kind of like Seinfeld, you know, a show about nothing. It makes me wonder if any of the positions you have taken in the past were sincere either. Loki indeed.

Gab...four more posts..to get to 150

I believe you are starting to see my point..........do you realize you are seeing my point.. I even made you Google Loki, I bet ? And yeah you see me as a god because you respond back to me every time I ask you something? Even Art can see through me...and yet...well carry on. We are almost to 150 comments and after that I promise I will stop..it's rich that you call me insincere though? Isn't like an ad hominin or something calling someone insincere....when actually I've been sincere all along you just refuse to see it?

gabrielshorn2013

Yes, I clearly see your point, pickles. It’s that you have no point whatsoever, nor are willing to put up a cogent argument. Being contrary to stir the pot seems to be your MO. Well done. LOL, no pickles, not rich at all. Since you clearly do not know what the word means, allow me to acquaint you with the definition of ad hominem:

ad ho·mi·nem

/ˌad ˈhämənəm/

adjective

1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

I said your responses were insincere, not you. See the difference now? However, if your responses are insincere, what evidence would we have that you, yourself are sincere? Is your proclamation that you are sincere, sincere? Loki indeed. One more to go. Fetch.

Yep just keep going you all...keep asking gabe stuff I can see us getting the comments up to 200. I said I would be done when the comments get up to 150 so I am going to hold true to my word.....carry on.

Plumbum

Jskling, We have a small number of people here that feel their saving the day. And must always be right. It’s laughable when they respond out of context with multiple sentences and or paragraphs and are still wrong. It’s like “dude get a frickin life, no one cares,”

gabrielshorn2013

Like you plumbum? Are you "saving the day" with your continued lies and innuendo about the FCSO.

Plumbum

I am passing the torch to you..carry on. Get those comments up to 200....let's set a record for the FNP editorial board...

phydeaux994

“Piqued” your curiosity?? “The same people and the MSM” to paraphrase your comment. Your implication is that these people and the MSM are wrong. But it’s just the opposite jsk, it’s you that is always wrong. When questioned though, to put your money where your mouth is, it’s always “it’s a waste of my time to answer you” or “you’re too stupid to understand”. Peace.✌️

DickD

Yes, Hagan probably should not have parked his car partly on the road. But the Sheriff shouldn'thave gone on radio to chastise him either.

We need to take the Sheriff's childish actions out of the political arena by making a County Police Department.

Awteam2021

Gabe, the officer gave the driver two warnings. That’s is when a police officer pulls you over but doesn't issue you a ticket or citation ( no charges). At least that’s what the fnp reported on June 30, 2021 “ the driver of the vehicle received 2 warnings for the violations.”

gabrielshorn2013

I know what a "warning" is aw, as I have received them myself for a taillight that was out while driving my son to soccer camp that he volunteered at in Middletown Park. It was only a loose bulb, but I still had to get it fixed (push bulb in tightly), then drive to the law center by the airport, and have a deputy verify the repair. No fine, no points. Just an equipment warning. It was still a written document that had a timeline that had to be met.

Awteam2021

Then you should know your earlier comment was wrong. The driver didn’t receive a citation. A warning isn’t a penalty, nor an acknowledgment of wrongdoing - not penal. 🤷‍♂️

gabrielshorn2013

It is a written document that must be addressed. It carries no fine or points. What do you think would have happened if I ignored my warning? Nonetheless, you are going off on a tangent to the original story. The driver displayed trailer tags on a motor vehicle, which was legitimate grounds for the stop. You can't dispute that fact, aw. It was in the original story if you read it...carefully.

Awteam2021

FYI, Today you don’t even have to go to the police station once repaired. Any inspection station can handle it.

The original story, if you read it correctly, was about Jenkins going off on tantrum, calling into a radio station to tell everyone that Kai questioned one of his officers over a traffic stop.

gabrielshorn2013

Yes aw, an inspection station could have handled it if I chose to pay to have the repair done there, instead of doing it myself. A loose connection does not take a PhD in electrical engineering to fix. I chose to not pay to have it fixed, so I had to go to the Law Center to have the repair verified. What is it that you continue to fail to understand? BTW, where is it written that a citation must come with a monetary penalty and/or points on your license? That's what a written warning is. There is still a record of the stop, the reason for the stop, the issuance of the written warning, and any necessary follow-up. You're getting wrapped around the axle over semantics.

Gab

They could have just as easily send you a notice in the mail too..and saved a ton in taxpayer dollars and no one's life would have put at risk for writing a ticket for a trivial matter..I mean really now that is ludicrous if you think about it far enough...a waring for tiny little lightbulb on your tail light? Seriously that is what my tax dollars are being used for? Well alrighty then..carry on you keep proving my point over and over again so keep going...gab

I mean if someone was to hit you in rear because they couldn't see you because your light was out then at first glance it's going to be the person that hits you in the rear fault......then at second glance if that person that hit in you the rear can prove you were negligent because your tail light light was out...you are going bear some liability in accident.. not much but some and depending on state's liability laws...you may owe for some if not all of the repairs to your vehicle and the other...I mean I am over thinking this but maybe that's been our problem we aren't thinking far enough into what trivial things we have cops write tickets for? Why are we paying for cops to do the same thing we are paying our car insurance to do? So a warning the mail should be enough of a waring to get you out checking lights in your tail light right?

a written warning sent in the mail that you ignored is proof you knew the light was out so they could prove you were negligent....otherwise it's always the person traveling behind you responsibility to maintain safe following distance...so even if your light was out so??? See a written warning would actually kill two birds with one stone so to speak...I mean if you think about it far enough...

gabrielshorn2013

I have no problem with the consequences of my not having a vehicle meeting Maryland requirements, in my case having to fix a broken tail light. I fixed it, had the repair verified, them moved on. You're getting mired in the minutiae of a tangent on this issue pickles. The issue was whether the stop by the officer was justifiable. The vehicle that is the subject of the stop had trailer plates affixed, rather that the legally required motor vehicle plates. That was a huge red flag to the trained eye, and made this a very justifiable reason for the stop. Think of it (and what I wrote earlier), why would someone do that? Could they be trying to conceal an illegal act? Was the car stolen? Were they running Fentanyl during this opioid epidemic? Were they trying to avoid an Amber Alert? Many other potential reasons too. That is why the police pulled the driver over to investigate. That is how many felonies are discovered. How many drug dealers have been caught because their headlight was out, or their windows were tinted too dark (a safety issue), or they had a wrong or missing license plate. All of those are valid reasons for a stop. If none of those situations are found, the driver either receives a written warning, or a moving traffic violation summons, and they move on. If I had been driving a stolen car, or running drugs, I would have been caught there and then. If I was driving a stolen car and the police took a picture of the plate with their dashcam, and sent the owner a citation, what exactly would that do? They would say, "yep, that's my car! Did you get it back"? The officers would say "no, we let them go, but are giving you the summons. Have a nice day". How does that make any sense?

How many drug dealers have been caught because their headlight was out, or their windows were tinted too dark (a safety issue), or they had a wrong or missing license plate...I don't know and don't really much care...but maybe you could do some Googling and find out for us all?

I'm curious to see if the benefits out weigh the risks of putting a cops life on the line for writing tickets for trivial stuff like the light in your tail light...yeah I'm just terrified of those big scary drug runners....actually I'm not but...stop trying to make me afraid of big scary drug runners...I mean I thought we had already proven the war on drugs wasn't a war on the drugs per se..but a war on POC..which you claim to be so I guess carry on and be scared of people like you? Yeah that makes sense...

gabrielshorn2013

OK, now you're just being silly, pickles. You have no idea how law enforcement works, nor apparently care. You can find the answers to your questions in the very pages of the FNP, as it has been reported there many times. Yes, the war on drugs is kind of stupid, but in the absence of complete legalization, it goes on. Cannabis possession was the reason for many people being incarcerated, and that never should have been. Until the 1930s, it was actually a recognized medication in the United States Pharmacopeia (tincture of cannabis). Where is your support for legalization for possession and distribution of everything, including Schedule I controlled substances? Should anyone have a free hand to openly sell heroin? Fentanyl? GHB? Or is there a limit on your tolerance, given their propensity for overdose and addiction, leading to crime? Yes, even POC respect the law and law enforcement. Many of us even become members of law enforcement, so your implication doesn't work on me.

oh so there isn't any data available that shows the benefits outweigh the risks? I see? maybe keep trying gab? I mean those big scary drug runners....use those for your motivation to locate that data....that shows the benefits outweigh the risk.. I have faith in you gab...keep searching then you may actually prove your point but so far you haven't.......so ..you do know what I mean by the benefits outweighing the risks..I mean repeat it back to me so I know you understand me....well let me clarify it for you once more okay?

Do the benefits of the cops pulling people over to write tickets for trivial crap like the light that was out on your tail light....outweigh the risks on the officers life? That's pretty simple....now go and find me that data. Then maybe you can actually prove your point otherwise...eye roll emoji, eye roll emoji, eye roll emoji...

gabrielshorn2013

Pickles, I have no idea what you are trying to prove, nor do I care. If you have a theory of unreasonable risk, then gather your own data and prove it. All you have given to this point is your unsubstantiated opinion.

Awteam2021

No Gabe, The issue wasn’t whether the stop by the officer was justifiable. That wasn’t the issue and isn’t the issue. Jenkins calling into WFMD is the issue, complaining that Kai questioned one of his officers over why he made the stop and asked if the Black driver was okay. The stop resulted into 2 warnings- 1st, not having the tag on the metal trailer in the proper location, and the 2nd having the tag attached to the car pulling the trailer rather then on the trailer. There were also questions over expiration dates.

Awteam2021

Thurmont is a high drug use area but the stop had nothing to do with drugs. Just an old Black guy driving an old car towing a trailer on an off road. If the officer suspected drugs that would call for a whole different type of police procedure. Wouldn’t he know that?

gabrielshorn2013

Here pickles, allow me to prime your curiosity pump. A nice baker’s dozen for you. This took only 15 seconds and one search on the FNP website, using the search terms “traffic stop drug arrest”. There are other search terms you could use also. You are on your own for any additional searches, and there are many, many other sources besides the FNP:

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crime_and_justice/cops_and_crime/alleged-gang-member-arrested-for-fentanyl-firearm-violations-in-new-market/article_b7cdb8ab-32f8-5778-ae89-57d890ba2763.html

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crime_and_justice/cops_and_crime/crime-briefs-police-make-arrests-in-alleged-shooting-assault-drug-cases/article_24ff4ab5-dd17-54ac-b324-3c9d71c58c92.html

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crime_and_justice/deputies-man-two-women-threw-drugs-out-car-window-when-they-were-pulled-over/article_1c8cca74-7def-54b6-b8f5-cd62406e95f7.html

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crime_and_justice/sheriffs-deputies-arrest-two-after-drugs-found-during-traffic-stop/article_7455a5d3-3065-5dc5-ba4a-9bfea51f1e50.html

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crime_and_justice/cocaine-marijuana-seized-in-traffic-stop-by-sheriffs-deputies/article_585d1390-c2c5-562f-9856-51ed5b3f79ea.html

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crime_and_justice/deputies-arrest-man-woman-on-drug-possession-gun-offenses/article_9e15fc7a-7697-5ec5-957c-ef82a6467a69.html

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crime_and_justice/frederick-man-blames-acquaintance-after-traffic-stop-leads-to-drug-arrests/article_53a26001-3ead-5e55-bf4a-acf11149ec00.html

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crime_and_justice/frederick-men-charged-with-attempting-to-kill-pa-state-troopers-after-vehicle-pursuit/article_6d978145-8b1a-5c51-aa4f-328030006210.html

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crime_and_justice/state-police-seize-100-capsules-of-heroin-during-traffic-stop-in-frederick/article_589f31f5-fe3b-53c8-9e4f-15db2d95a370.html

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crime_and_justice/woodsboro-man-67-arrested-on-drug-charges/article_f82fff6a-0115-5300-a6ff-d51fac31ebaa.html

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crime_and_justice/police-man-arrested-after-striking-deputys-car-during-traffic-stop-in-frederick/article_f02c2170-fdec-5959-adf0-e6b174176f3f.html

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/public/jefferson-man-charged-with-murder-in-death-of-girlfriend/article_4ea713e3-9c85-526e-a309-de78984ea493.html

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crime_and_justice/gun-drugs-seized-after-traffic-stop-by-state-police-in-frederick/article_8e5b8870-8245-5ca3-bde8-dbbace249327.html

So when are you going to answer my questions, pickles? All of the above traffic stops resulted in additional charges, including illegal weapons possession and murder. Where is your support for legalization for possession and distribution of everything, including Schedule I controlled substances? Should anyone have a free hand to openly sell heroin? Fentanyl? GHB? Or is there a limit on your tolerance, given their propensity for overdose and addiction, leading to crime? Should the murderer not have been apprehended since it was only a traffic stop?

gabrielshorn2013

I am not arguing about Sheriff Jenkins call-in, nor his behavior, aw. I do not agree with what Jenkins did, nor his petty behavior, whatsoever. Nor do I agree with Hagen’s interference. Do you have a reference for your claims on the written warnings? None of that was in the FNP. All it said was that the car had trailer tags. If you can provide a link, I will concede, of course.

Gab

i have no idea where this comment is going to post at here..but I'm sure you will see it eventually? But boy you have totally and completely missed my point..it has flown so far over your head that I can't see it anymore....wow...I didn't think my point was that hard to grasp but...I mean let me know when it hits you? okay please and do you understand the meaning of trivial by chance? please repeat back to me what you think trivial means okay? (shaking head emoji....repeat repeat repeat...you get it)?

gabrielshorn2013

I have no idea what your point is anymore pickles. You seem to think that valid traffic stops are not valid because they are "trivial" in your words. However, my point is that those "trivial" traffic stops often lead to more serious discoveries, such as drug running and murder, and I provided you with no less that thirteen examples of that happening here in Frederick county. Valid traffic stops open the door to discovery of other illegal issues. By the fact that we all have vehicle registrations and driver's licenses, we are required to maintain our vehicles according to the requirements of the state of Maryland. Failure to do so may result in a traffic stop and a written warning or citation. You learn that when you study for your driver's license. Have I been pulled over for equipment violations or other offenses? Yes, I have, and I readily admit that I was at fault, and paid any applicable fine, and moved on. Often, that is all that happens, but many times there is even more serious crimes to discover during that stop. Read each and every one of those links and get back to me. Which of those crimes should be excused because they were discovered during a "trivial" traffic stop? To put it another way, if it weren't for the valid traffic stops, criminals, including murderers and heroin/fentanyl dealers, would never have been apprehended. Is that OK with you? I certainly hope not.

Gab

Did you know that Loki is my favorite god? I guess it’s a good thing you don’t….? Because well..,..no worries, carry on though…

I mean the other day Happy was thinking I was Jesus..you know a god and I said my favorite god is Loki and Happy is trying to find my some Emerald green wings with a matching Halo...but I'm gonna hold off on wearing the Halo because gods don't become angels right?

Awteam2021

This isn’t over a valid traffic stop. If it was it would have never been news worthy.

As reported by Chuck Jenkins claims on WFMD, “Frederick County Councilman Kai Hagen’s decision to interject himself in what appeared to be a lawful traffic stop being conducted by a sheriff’s deputy last month was wrong.

Hagen, who was with his wife in the area of U.S. 15 and Catoctin Furnace Road on June 20, said he pulled over near the traffic stop as a “concerned citizen” and wanted to make sure the motorist, who was Black, was OK.”

“The deputy recognized Hagen and told him to leave because he was blocking the road and interfering in the stop. Hagen said he would leave but not until the motorist indicated he was fine, which he did.” Sheriff Chuck Jenkins said the driver ultimately left with 2 WARNINGS. “ like having a tail light out and told to get it fixed. A violation but no unlawful act.

AWteam

This is fun isn’t it???? And too easy….. but now you know why Loki is my favorite god?

gabrielshorn2013

Then why in the world are you arguing about the validity of the stop aw? I already said that I didn't agree with the Sheriff's behavior, or Hagan's either. They both grandstanded on the issue, blowing it way out of proportion. The Deputy made a valid traffic stop based on the information in the FNP. Have you found a link to the claims you made regarding the warning citations?

Oh and gods don't wear wings...I mean guess if you are a god you can do anything you to want right? I mean who is going to stop me Thor? ....but would it look weird if a god wore wings? ...Gab what's your opinion on this? You know I just can't decide.......how it would be perceived ???

Gab...ding...ding...ding...........ding...picture one of those bells going off when you get the right answer on a game show.....? Oh picture you are at the Walkersville Carnival and you hit the thing that shows you hard you hit and if you hit hard enough a bell goes off and everyone turns around to see who had enough strength to make the bell go off..well that's you right now....how's it feel?

gabrielshorn2013

Pickles, I really don't have an opinion of what God you choose to worship, nor do I care. Your thought processes seem to be deteriorating and becoming disjointed as the day goes on.

Gab

keep posting...I'm supposed to get the comments up to 150 at least ,,,I get paid for the clicks this editorial gets so...anything over 150..I'll split with you.

Plumbum

Which is how I know Mrs Shorns is up there in age. Highly possible she resides in a county nursing home, based on on the time she spends picking fights and arguing about things that no one cares.

Plumbum

FNP Mods:

Thank you!

gabrielshorn2013

👍👍👍

shiftless88

Oh sure; people were driving 70 in a 55 but we pulled this black dude over for a tag violation. This is exactly the problem.

gabrielshorn2013

No shiftless, if you read the sidebar in the original story,, you would have seen that this wasn't just an expired tag. It was trailer tags (with a very different format) affixed to a motor vehicle. To the trained eye, that was a hugh red flag. Why would someone do that? Could the driver be trying to conceal criminal activity? Could the vehicle be stolen? Could the driver be running drugs during this continuing opioid epidemic? Could this be an abduction, and the driver trying to avoid an Amber Alert? The only way to be sure of a driver's innocence is to make the very justifiable stop. What would you have said if one of the aforementioned crimes had happened, and the stop had not been made? Who would you have blamed then? The driver's race was irrelevant in this instance.

shiftless88

Have you talked to many black men? The rate at which they get pulled over is astounding. I am pretty sure that I could follow you for five minutes and find something to pull you over. When you are an old white lady you don't get pulled over. When you are a black male you do. It's borne out by numbers.

gabrielshorn2013

Actually shiftless, I have, and nobody has yet disagreed with the reason for the stop. Plus, as a multiracial male, your argument is wasted on me. I fully agree with this stop. The driver knew he did wrong, and accepted his citations. Should the deputy have said, "oops! POC, better let him go". Come on man.

shiftless88

Gabe; as I noted I am sure I could find a reason to stop nearly anyone given five minutes behind them.

shiftless88

It should be noted that none of these situations you propose actually were relevant.

gabrielshorn2013

So what? There was a violation that justified a stop, and the driver acknowledged his fault, and accepted his summons. The only way to know that these situations were not applicable, unless you believe in mind reading, was a traffic stop. Who would you have blamed if a load of fentanyl had gotten through and killed a bunch of kids, when the car could have been stopped due to clearly evident violations that are commonly used in drug running? Again, the driver's race was irrelevant to the stop. Do you remember "the boy that cried wolf"? Same applies here.

Awteam2021

Gabe, Expiration dates were extended due to COVID-19; expired driver's licenses and license plates remain valid until August 15, 2021, according to the Maryland Department of Transportation / Motor Vehicles.

gabrielshorn2013

The violation was not for an expired tag or license aw. According to the FNP, he had trailer tags on a motor vehicle. That's not an "oops, my bad", that was a willing violation. He was lucky with just getting a warning.

Awteam2021

Gabe, warnings aren’t penal. That meant he needed to unscrew the tag from the car and screw it on the back of the trailer. All fixed and good to go.👍 That’s what all the hoopla was about 🙇‍♂️.

gabrielshorn2013

Smh. That is not "what all the hoopla is about", aw, and you know it. These types of violations are how drug runners or vehicle thieves try to disguise their criminal activities. According to your logic, a drug runner with a trunk load of fentanyl doing the same thing should be let go when his illegal plates are found out and he is pulled over. All they have to do is put the original tags back on the car and voila!, no foul, and off they go, right? The stop in this instance was justified no matter how you try to spin it. Upon investigation the officers found no other illegal activities, and the driver was let go with a warning (a citation with no penalty). Lucky for him for a willful violation, or did those plates get there on their own?

Awteam2021

There’s no such thing as a citation without penalty🤷‍♂️.

Gabe you don’t no what you are talking about… A driver, guilty of driving with his tail light out with a minor in the car is much more likely to be trafficking drugs.

gabrielshorn2013

Right back atcha aw. I guess you have experience with drug runners, huh? And with that I'm going to leave it there.

gab and MD

Did you email sheriff Jenkins yet? If you really feel this strongly about Kai committing this reckless act you for sure have emailed the sheriff insisting that he ticket Kai for his reckless stunt right? So again I ask what in world is your point?

Otherwise dear polite white people I'm rolling my eyes at your post...(insert eye roll emoji) several in fact....

gabrielshorn2013

You are missing the point here pickles. I am not arguing the point of Hagen interfering with the officer in the performance of his duties. Happy has already provided you with the Maryland laws pertaining to the issue. What keeps coming up is this notion that somehow the traffic stop that lead to this bruhaha was unjustified. It wasn't. It was actually very justifiable, and whose circumstances often leads to discovery of more illegal activities, and even more serious charges, such as driving a stolen vehicle, or running drugs (if found). How would a stolen vehicle be found if the driver was not pulled over for displaying invalid tags? Speeding also helps catch people. Should traffic cams just issue tickets, while the driver gets away with more serious crimes? In this instance those acts were not discovered, and the driver was released with written warnings. I haven't heard of him protesting his traffic stop.

BTW, nobody ever tripped over a bag of e-mail. I'm old school on this. If I deem it important enough I send snail mail. I supported the deputy on his stop, and knocked the Sheriff for making this a political issue. I also suggested that he cite Mr. Hagen for his violation. As plumbum says, they have a year and a day to do so. Let's hope it's sooner than later.

Gab

eye roll emoji...eye roll emoji...eye roll emoji....scroll up I think I have already responded to this but you refuse to listen...but carry on. Maybe eventually you will prove your point but so far you have not..I mean at least I haven't seen you prove anything other than you may have questionable morals so.....carry on?

gabrielshorn2013

Sorry pickles if you are unable to understand. My explanations are quite clear. You are the one who refuses to listen. I can't help you there. Please feel free to scroll on by.

Plumbum

It’s sad that some think they need to lecture you, shift, a grown adult.

Myself and everyone else see your point.

teadoffinfrederickcounty

Reading your post above caused me to reflect on this well-known quote; “He who professes to know everything usually knows nothing.”

You must be under 25 years old or you would have remembered this incident…

As reported in THE SHAWNEE NEWS-STAR

It was a cool spring morning. He woke up as usual, put on his state trooper uniform and went to work at 7 a.m. to patrol the rural roads of Noble County. He ended up stopping at turnpike headquarters and learned the Oklahoma Highway Patrol was sending units to Oklahoma City. Then he saw the TV and noticed that one-third of the Murrah building was gone, calling it a “terrible sight.”

“Not once did I think it was a terrorist attack — not in the heartland,” he said.

Hanger was asked to respond, so with lights and sirens, he drove south on Interstate 35. Not too far from Perry, he was told to stay in his area. He turned around and went northbound on I-35 and stopped to assist two women who had car trouble on the highway. One of them was married to an Oklahoma City firefighter and was worried about him helping victims in Oklahoma City. Hanger called a wrecker for them and proceeded northbound on I-35.

“Little did I know then that an old yellow Mercury passed by me being driven by Tim McVeigh,” he said. As he drove northbound, he passed that car near Perry and noticed it didn’t have a tag. He slowed down, changed lanes and got behind it “to start what I thought was a routine traffic stop.”

The driver, later determined to be McVeigh, pulled over. Hanger didn’t approach the car.

“I stood behind my door for cover as I was trained,” Hanger said, and ordered the driver out of the car.

McVeigh sat sideways on the edge of the seat with his feet on the ground for a few seconds and walked towards Hanger. The trooper saw his hands were clear of any weapons, so they met behind his car. Hanger told McVeigh he stopped him for no tag; McVeigh said he had just purchased the car.

Hanger, who thought the car was stolen, asked for proof of insurance or a bill of sale, but McVeigh had none, so Hanger asked for his drivers license. As McVeigh reached into his right rear pocket, Hanger could see a bulge under the man’s windbreaker that looked like a weapon.

He took McVeigh’s license, which had a Michigan address, and told him to use both hands to slowly unzip his jacket and pull it back.

“He looks me in the eye and says, ‘I have a weapon,‘” Hanger said. As events unfolded on the side of highway, Hanger said he grabbed his weapon and stuck it to the back of McVeigh’s head.

As he walked McVeigh to his patrol car, Hanger said McVeigh made a statement that his weapon was loaded. Hanger nudged McVeigh with his pistol and said, “So is mine.”

I have to wonder, if Councilman Kai Hagen had committed the same reckless act at that stop on I-35, would that Oklahoma Trooper still be alive today?

Tea

Did you email sheriff Jenkins yet? If you really feel this strongly about Kai committing this reckless act you for sure have emailed the sheriff insisting that he ticket Kai for his reckless stunt right? So again I ask what in world is your point?

Otherwise dear polite white person I'm rolling my eyes at your post...(insert eye roll emoji)

teadoffinfrederickcounty

Don't you?

Don't I what Tea? No I haven't emailed Mr. Jenkins ......because I don't much care about this anymore...it's over and done. and yet you all just keep trying to prove a point that doesn't need to be proved....and of course keep giving Kai FREE PUBLICITY...so carry on I guess??? I mean if you feel the need to make a point that doesn't need to be made? I'm going to keep asking you the same question every time you try. So maybe quit trying? just sayin....

shiftless88

“This is outrageous. Who in the hell does he think he is?” Bull Connors said during the broadcast, referring to Reverend King.

MD1756

Maybe Hagen could assist the Massachusetts State Police? See: https://news.yahoo.com/heavily-armed-militia-group-shuts-142707101.html

According to Massachusetts State Police, a trooper saw two cars on the side of the I-95 at about 1:30 a.m. with hazard lights on, attempting to add gas to their tanks. When the officer stopped to assist, they noticed the men were wearing military gear and had a lot of guns. The trooper asked for driver’s licenses and gun licenses but the men allegedly refused to provide any, and refused to put down their weapons. The trooper called for backup but some of the men fled, police said.

Would Hagen have stopped to make sure the men with guns were ok?

MD

You remember Threecents comment from yesterday? Okay yeah maybe go back and refresh your memory as to what Threecents was asking you….and stop and read your comments back to yourself before you hit the post comment button so Threecents doesn’t have to keep asking you the same question over and over again,,,,sound like a plan?

public-redux

“This is outrageous. Who in the h_ll does he think he is?” Jenkins said during the broadcast, referring to Hagen.

A free citizen of the United States of America. We principled conservatives know that is all one need be. I sure wish the High Sheriff understood that very simple fact.

Plumbum

Who in the hell violates the constitutional rights of immigrants??

public-redux

Older white men like you?

Awteam2021

You can obverse a public servant in his duties, if not you have a police state. Police can’t do what ever they want in secrecy. That’s why body cameras are becoming more prevalent. Observing, taking photographs and videos of things that are plainly visible from public spaces is your constitutional right. Chuck may not like that but should know that’s the law and enforce it as the chief officer. Kai deserve an apology from Jenkins.

Agreed Awteam2021 Mr. Jenkins should apologize to Mr. Hagen.

I mean after that radio stunt Mr. Jenkins should have no problem showing he is a more moral person than Mr. Hagen. Wasn’t that Mr. Jenkins whole point of political grandstanding on that radio so everyone could see how morally corrupt Kai is? Kinda not working out like Mr. Jenkins thought it would……

Taking the high road now can show who is really in charge? Jenkins since he believes he is more moral than Kai, should apologize first.

MD1756

You don't have the right to block a travel lane and interfere with a police officer doing their job. Let's not forget the irony of the racist action of stopping because the driver who was pulled over was Black whereas Hagen would have kept going if the driver were not visibly a minority. Talk about profiling, Hagen was engaged in racist profiling. How ironic.

Threecents

Yeah it’s environmental for sure🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I wonder if people actually read their own words back to themselves before they hit the post comment button?

Awteam2021

Traffic on Rte. 806? That’s news.

MD1756

From the article "Hagen didn’t need to try to make that point on this particular evening along U.S. 15."

Awteam2021

MD1756, the incident was on Route 806 that runs parallel to Rte.15, a 4 mile stretch handling local traffic for several businesses, the Catoctin Zoo, Catoctin Furnace Historical Site and some resident.

Awteam2021

There are no stop signs on Rte. 15. But there is one entering Rte 15 from Rte 806, Catoctin Furnace Rd. So if you stopped at the stop sign then you had to be on Rte 806. How do you stop at a stop sign that has none?

MD1756

I know route 806 (and you forgot to mention the bar south of the zoo, not that I've been to the bar but I had a friend who rented the house next to the bar). I quoted from the article which said "... along U.S. 15." If the incident happened on Rte 806 it would/should have said that. What source of information do you have that says the traffic stop actually happened on Rte 806 instead of along Rte 15 near 806?

Awteam2021

Md1756, WFMD reported on June 20th, a deputy initiated a traffic stop along Route 806 at Black Mills Road. I trust they aren’t lying 🤥. See for yourself: https://www.wfmd.com/2021/06/30/sheriff-jenkins-councilman-hagen-confront-each-other-on-wfmd-afternoon-show/

MD1756

Aweteam, in other words, the FNP got it wrong. I don't listen to radio so I only had what FNP had written to go by and that was "along U.S. 15" (which being stopped on 806 at Black Mills Road is not "along 15"). I have less concern (particularly from a traffic safety standpoint) about blocking traffic on 806 than on 15 although he should probably have pulled over further rather than just slightly. Hagen has every right to observe, but if his observations did not indicate danger to the driver from an officer acting outside of the law and/or using excessive force, etc., he had no business interjecting himself in a traffic stop and again if he wouldn't do it for everyone he should do it for no one unless he sees the officer breaking the law. To stop to check for the safety of only certain races is racism. Violent traffic stops where the violence is initiated/instigated by the police is rare considering the millions of traffic stops made (just look at FBI statistics) So again Hagen has misplaced concerns. What data does Hagen have to show that Black drivers' safety is threatened by the Frederick County Sheriff's office?

Awteam2021

MD1756, the source of the whole story is because of Jenkins calling into WFMD. They are the source. The point is, it wasn’t on Rte. 15 but near Rte. 15 but on Rte. 806 and Black Mills Rd a little traveled road. You disagree? When presented with new information, you have a problem with that?

MD1756

Aweteam, try rereading my 4:56pm comment. I said "in other words, FNP got it wrong." I don't like it when the news media get their facts wrong. I clearly explained what I was relying on when I said Rte 15 and when you provided the citation for the stop actually being on 806 I adjusted my position accordingly. So clearly I don't have a problem with someone presenting the correct facts. I doubt anyone can answer the question I asked that shows any minority is at danger just from a traffic stop in Frederick County (and that's not saying whether they do or do not get pulled over at a disproportionate percentage, one has to analyze the data carefully and understand all the factors that go into a decision to pull a vehicle over.

Awteam2021

MD1756, that isn’t profiling🤦‍♂️. Racial profiling is an illegal practice by law enforcement and private security that target people of color. There is no policy preventing the public from being suspicious and concern for Blacks’ safety and not for Whites’ when stopped by police. Ironically you use that as a prohibition 🤷‍♂️. Chuck made the same ignorant statement.

MD1756

While racial profiling is associated with law enforcement it is not limited only to that.

For example, Racial profiling: Racial or ethnic profiling is the act of suspecting, targeting or discriminating against a person on the basis of their ethnicity or religion, rather than on individual suspicion. Racial profiling often involves discrimination against minority population and is based on any negative stereotypes of the targeted demographic. Wikipedia

Therefore, based on Hagen's, decision to interject himself into one traffic stop to check on the safety of the driver because he saw the person was of a certain race, any time he passes by drivers stopped of another race, he is discriminating against them because in his profiling he doesn't think they are at risk. When does it have to be a policy before discrimination or profiling occurs? If that is the case, no individuals can ever profile or be racists and we know that's not true, so you people are just making things up to suit your needs and are being inconsistent and illogical and therefore to me irrelevant. Add one more to my list of "ignore."

Awteam2021

Wrong MD1756, You have a right to be suspicious, profile 🤨 or even racist. What you can’t do is prevent equal access to laws, courts, goods and services due to all citizens by the constitution and you have the “Right-to-Know” actions by police officers. The Sheriff should know that.

MD1756

There is absolutely nothing incorrect about my statement. I am not narrowing the definition of racism or profiling to what law enforcement can or cannot legally do. You are restricting the definition of profiling and racism to a narrow set of conditions to suit your arguments. Based on complete definitions of profiling and racism I am correct in my observations of Hagen's actions as being profiling and racist which is ironic given that he claims to be against racism and profiling. His actions seem to indicate he is ok with his own version of profiling and racism. Now, if the Frederick Sheriff department had a track record of initiating violence during traffic stops he'd certainly have a legitimate concern rather than political grandstanding. He could have also just stopped (out of the traffic lane) and observed from a distance. Hagen chose to take the political grandstanding route to address a false concern.

Awteam2021

MD1756 wrong again. Actually, Jenkins did the political grandstanding by initiating the phone call to the radio station (saying he wanted the public to know).If he didn’t do that you would have never heard about incident… also you are doing what you accused Kai of doing - suspicion of profiling ( bias) based on race.

MD1756

Problem is when people of one political party call out people in other political parties but defend the actions of those doing something wrong in their own party. Although I'm registered as a democrat, I have no strong political affiliations and I am willing to call out those who act irresponsibly in any party. That said, I'm done with htis conversation as it is going nowhere.

Awteam2021

MD1756, regardless of political affiliation, do you have a problem with getting facts straight?

You know I have pondered why cops were attacking other cops on 1/6/2021...we all know what happened that day but it starts with an I...it was because the cops were angry...and you know who did an awfully good job of stoking that anger. He wanted a fight because he knew he had lost and he played a bunch of polite white policemen into being angry at other policemen???

So angry cops came to DC to take their anger out on cops.....it blows your mind if you think about it, it kinda hurts to think too far into it but we need to think further we need to go deeper into our thinking so we can see the why and understand the why?

Why did so many angry law enforcement officials go to DC on 1/6/2021 they were angry but they didn't know who they should be angry at because you know who would never allow them to think that far..he stopped them from thinking that far...but see if you know who wasn't a morally corrupt person he would have allowed those police officers to think far enough ahead to see who they should really be angry at...and it's at morally corrupt people like you know who? The morally corrupt people that have used law enforcement as means to ensure that they don't end...but morally corrupt people need to end their control over the police...

We are not a nation of morally corrupt people we are a nation of moral people and moral people would be standing up with law enforcement and insist that we start treating them like we actually care about them and we would put a stop to having our police officers risk their lives over trivial crap .......we need to stop the anger.

These morally corrupt people have used cops for their pleasure and to protect them, the morally corrupt people from being seen just how morally corrupt they are...so these morally corrupt people decided...I guess now they are the police unions, they have decided that it's morally acceptable to put cops lives on the line to keep the morally corrupt people happy... Me I'm not okay with this....so let's stop the angry cops from being angry all the time and that starts with being a moral society that will allow us to treat cops as moral people too. Let's treat the cops like we care and let's stop the morally corrupt people from being in control... You all want to be angry at Kai when it's yourself you should be angry with, and you can put an end to angry cops it's really easy. It starts with you......and how moral you really are?

In the face of this democracy of hypocrisy.....I love words....

Eminem - White America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZIzD0ZfTFg

no worries the explicit language has been dubbed out of this version...

Me and Eminem need to do Vegas....[wink][wink]

gary4books

Defund police? Hardly. We will "refund" the police and pay them more when they have passed advanced testing and have a good education. Make it a real profession. Then we can see. By the way, police were not attacking other police as much as they wanted to capture Member of Congress and "hang VP Pence." They expected the other police to welcome them. Big mistake. Saved the USA.

Gary

Were you talking to me? It's hard to tell?

anyway no where did I say anything about defunding the police in my statement above did I ? That's what you saw in my words not what I said. I agree with you we should start to treat cops better, we ask cops to do a lot of morally questionable and morally corrupt things because as a society we really have lost our moral grounding..and I'm not talking about the sky daddy above...we need to leave god out of our thinking that's been our problem...

If we were a more morally grounded society we really wouldn't even need the police that much would we? So glad you agree with me....

gary4books

PWW - It as more of a general comment to support police reform with more money, not less. AND a comment that off duty police that attacked the Capitol were not so much there to fight other police, but to capture and even kill members of Congress and capture the VP. I do agree with you.

schaeferhund

As I've said elsewhere, Mr. Hagen's heart was in the right place, but not his head. Just as crime statistics are the wrong reason to prejudge an individual black person, police bias statistics are the wrong reason to prejudge an individual deputy in uniform doing his job and arguably assuming more personal risk than his paygrade affords.

The social justice crusaders have overstepped their bounds. We need a sober reckoning of our history and an honest assessment of the present. But too many have whipped themselves up in a frenzy of paranoia, as illustrated by Mr. Hagen's intervention.

Agree. An apology would be appropriate. We all make mistakes.

Dwasserba

Omg pile on, why don’t you. I say, end radio interviews.

gary4books

If Hagen broke the law (got a ticket and convicted) you may have a point. As we saw with George Floyd, citizens have a right, no an obligation, to stop, view and even question police actions. If we slavishly give up our rights to be "patriotic" we lose them.

This is time to say that the police should not be hindered. Obstruction of justice is serious. But there should be room to question.

And if you say no, you are wrong.

jsklinelga

gary4books

I am baffled by your stance. As we have seen far too often lately a simple traffic stop can be deadly. Cars pulling up or people asking questions, at minimum, is a distraction. Especially when there is no justifiable reason to question. This was a stunt. A political stunt.

What if the driver fed off Hagan's seeking to find wrong and said he felt he was pulled over unjustly. They could have easily. Then what would develop?

The right to question and monitor police authority is needed. But a carte blanche invitation for citizens to interfere and question is simply wrong and most certainly dangerous.

JSK

You baffle us all? Stop trying to defend the indefensible in an attempt to justify the unjustifiable… it’s unjustifiable that we allow our law enforcement officers to be put at risk over writing tickets for such trivial crap,, but hey if you think you are defending how morally incorrupt we are as a society carry on.. you are doing a great job of exposing how morally corrupt we are as a society, me I think we are better than that?

Awteam2021

JSK, do you have a specific incident where someone observing a police arrest led to a deadly incident of a police officer?

gary4books

Read my comments again. I am open to suggestions.

gary4books

I suspect that getting out in traffic is the most dangerous thing we do in a day. Certainly in the top five activities. But that is our choice. It is our lives.

Always be a skeptic.....skeptics are always questioning the truth....it's disgusting that a human being had to die for 9 minutes to show us that we should always be skeptical of the justice we see. Because justice is often wrong...

Dwasserba

[thumbup]gary 🙄if something’s been hashed-over, right, left and center here and elsewhere and you can’t think of another topic, just skip the editorial. Can’t ever endorse a candidate during an election, but there’s a cream pie standing by at the fnp once you’re elected.

veritas

Once again, Gary, you manage to take both sides of the same issue and be quite pleased with yourself in the process.

And so V how about if start treating law enforcement better they may just start treating us better? I think that’s what Gary was trying to say? But you don’t seem to be listening to him? That’s what you have me for though to help you listen. ..

gary4books

I have to admit that I am usually pleased with myself. I am 80 now and still healthy. But my pints on issues is to leave the talking points alone and to present issues in ways that may creat original thought, if that is even possible. If you say that is "both sides" I will not argue the point. Both sides usually have reasons to present. Our problem here is the facts are not the same for both sides. Is asking one question enough to be interference?

veritas

Points all well taken, Gary. And high praise to you for posts that are civil and never abusive or demeaning. Ol' veritas is properly chastened.

gary4books

What is Interfearance: "4. There is intent to obstruct or hinder the officer by the actions of the defendant. This is usually the most difficult element for the State to prove. The prosecution must show that the defendant’s actions amounted to a specific intent to commit the crime–that is, a specific intent to obstruct or hinder the officer from performing his or her duties." http://www.perettillc.com/2012/01/what-is-obstructing-or-hindering-an-officer-in-maryland/

Plumbum

Anyone know if we cin find out who the deputie is thru the public information act?

Dwasserba

Who was the driver?

Plumbum

When is the next open county council meeting? I say the deputy take Sly Kye his tickets and present them to him at the next open council meeting.

Yeah and the FNP should be there too..

gary4books

Many get tickets. Convictions are what count.

Plumbum

To get a conviction there must be a ticket. OMG Gary.

So what would the ticket entail,,,what would Kai be convicted of? I mean if it was me I would for sure fight the ticket in court.....but we aren't even at the first step yet. The ticket is the first step then we go from there....I mean if you are all dying to see Kai convicted of something. He needs a ticket first...

I haven't paid a ticket yet (and more often I haven't paid a cent) that I didn't first go to court and fight...just because a cop gives you a ticket doesn't mean the cop was right and you were wrong? Does it?

We all should know by now after seeing a human being kneeled to death for 9 minutes that cops can be really wrong......so I think we are back at needing to have that first step done, I mean so we can go through those other steps for all you polite white people to find happiness.

Plumbum

Pretty pickle, your go on and on as much as Gabbs. Please try to scale back when u write.

plumbum

you are more than welcome to scroll right over my posts..in fact I would I prefer you would..you are not the audience I'm speaking to. Please stop calling me names....I don't call you names, never have, never will, and I would prefer if you could do the same. Peace ......

Plumbum

Pretty pickle, I enjoy reading your masterpieces. You are usually on point. Just, I’m asking you to condense.

Thanks Pickle!

Has anyone of you emailed Sheriff Jenkins yet insisting that he have that deputy go and ticket Kai for being Kai? FNP why didn't you at the end of this editorial also insist that Kai be ticketed?

The deputy that Kai should apologize to, he could have the FNP go with him when he goes to give Kai his ticket?

The FNP could then write a front page story with the headline: Kai Hagen Apologizes to Deputy...... while the deputy hands him his ticket? Oh make sure you take a photographer with you, maybe Kai could take a selfie for you if you can't spare the expense of a photographer?

Talk about killing two birds with one stone so to speak...just think a front page story that will get clicks for days on end and Kai will be put in his place on the front page of the FNP and also FREE PUBLICITY for Kai...otherwise calling Kai out in an editorial does what exactly?????

You got it FREE PUBLICITY....how long you polite white people are going to carry on about this is up to you...then again Kai is loving this FREE PUBLICITY so carry on dear polite white people.

Plumbum

I started to reply. But then the phone rang. And I can’t remember what I was going to say. Stay there, I’ll be right back.

Plumbum

Hold on, don’t go anywhere, still trying to remember......

Plumbum

I appreciate everybody’s patience please continue to stand by while I try to remember what it was I was going to write.....

Dwasserba

“… go and ticket Kai for being Kai?” lol I suppose any of us could make a citizen’s arrest for that? 🤔

Plumbum

Let me repeat--this is not a police state. The police work for the public. We all have a right to make sure they are not abusing their power.

HappySeller2014

Kai's platform?

Knocks out two bird with one stone with ETSY below. I hope it becomes part of his campaign merch!

https://www.etsy.com/listing/474760616/police-car-balloon-police-academy

Plumbum

Sign me up!

yogib

As pointed out in other posts, we have one of the most uneducated, racist (yes he has even admitted it) Sheriff in the Country, and the FNP continues to let him get off scot -free even when he abuses residents including women. (See how many Court decisions have gone against him). There is nothing wrong in being a witness to a stop. The George Floyd case has proven that. Wake up FNP, you are fast becoming an enabler.

Plumbum

I did some research on Ogden Media. First of all Ogden is located in wheeling wv. Must I say anymore?

In the part about the executives, the head guy, the CEO, it’s days he’s a “proud conservative”........

No i think secretly the FNP wants Kai to be CE....just look at all the FREE publicity they just gave him??? I can tell no one learned anything from the past but hey I did and that 's all that counts...I hope there is something in the FNP everyday about Kai..because I really feel he is the best person to be CE...and me I want the best person for the job even if he is a polite white man..look at Biden just a polite white man doing his job as President.....he learned well from, no drama Obama.

sej58

Kai is not qualified to be CE period!

Why not? I need to hear your explanation of the why first then I may change my mind but so far I’ve heard nothing to change my mind that Kai would make an excellent CE? He can’t do any worse than Jan has done, but there is always room for improvement isn’t there? He may not kowtow to the next sheriff like Jan has with Chuck….,

Tell me why Kai wouldn’t make an excellent CE? I have yet to hear a compelling reason why he isn’t qualified? You have someone else in mind?

Sure I’m going feel a twinge of guilt not voting for Ms. Fitzwater but I don’t feel she has the life experience yet to be CE, she doesn’t know how dirty the politics can get here, Kai does, and if don’t think this is going to a dirty race think again……Remember how dirty it was when it was Blaine and Jan? Ms. Fitzwater isn’t ready to play dirty politics yet….,

Dwasserba

[thumbup]yogib

jsklinelga

It is time for people to show more respect for our law enforcement officers. Mr. Hagan's actions are reflective of what is happening in many large cities. A media fed, Democrat party induced, fervid hysteria that paints all LEO's as prejudiced bigots which target black people unfairly. It is not only wrong, it is dangerous. Hagan's clear lack of critical thinking is a prime example of how detached from reality the assault on LEO"s has become.

Plumbum

We live in a county where in the recent past TWO police misconduct cases have made it to the Supreme Court--and the police lost both times.

Remember a few years ago when a guy having a diabetic attack was pulled over and beaten up by the police for "resisting arrest"? Apparently the police didn't learn much from that since they pulled over yet another diabetic a few months later and beat HIM up too.

Then there the numerous deaths at police hands, all totally unnecessary. A Downs Symndrome guy staying to watch a second showing of a movie for a few minutes? Death penalty. A Black student at Tuscarora asking why the resident policeman was going after his friend? Death penalty--by taser. Remember the 19-year-old guy who beat up his drug dealer? The police knew exactly where he worked, a gas station. They could have simply gone to the gas station and arrested him during working hours. But no, this was a great chance to call out the SWAT team for a 4 AM raid on the guy's (and his mother's....) house. Death penalty--by shooting this time.

I could go on. There's a long list. I was personally stopped about 15 years ago. It was midnight, and I was driving the speed limit down Oppossumtown Pike. Police pulled me over....I had made the deadly mistake of driving a 20+ year old car. We all know anyone who does that is a major criminal. The policeman was taken aback when he realized the driver was an old white guy, not a major gang leader. He said my license plate light was out (!). I asked if I could get out and look. He allowed me. The light was just fine. Luckily, he didn't shoot me.

Let me repeat--this is not a police state. The police work for the public. We all have a right to make sure they are not abusing their power.

jsklinelga

plumbum

The ridiculous assertion that driving a 20 year old car, (ie. a poor person) makes you a mark for police is a good indicator of your thinking. You are a rabid, anti-police person as witnessed by your numerous post. Like so many in our current society you seek to find and dramatically highlight mistakes.

Yes mistakes are made. And for the ones you noted it is very unfortunate. But you make no mention of the tens of thousands encounters in the same space of time that were efficient and well handled. These brave,, community oriented individuals risk harm everyday helping to make Frederick County a great place to live.

sevenstones1000

“Mistakes are made”. I would laugh if not for the horror of your viewpoint.

Plumbum

I remember when Jill king threatened to Sue the FNP for “plagiarizing” her posts.

Gabbs so tunnel visioned with hate. It inhibits her from thinking before responding.

HappySeller2014

I read a lot in this post from an earlier post to another FNP article this week.

Sensationalizing and repetitively posting here on FNP boards shows the lack of original thinking and simply ridiculous approach to attacking cops. The age of a car has nothing to do with a police traffic enforcement stop.

Nice try here Plumbum. Try again. And again if you wish. I do know a lot of older white guys who are terrible drivers and treat their cars like dirt. If the event you are describing happended 15 years ago you are now older than dirt, so protect yourself and me and stay off the roads.

Comment deleted.
phydeaux994

gab, I see you have moved up to take bosco’s place as 2nd-in-command of the BTT(BullyTagTeam). Congratulations.

sevenstones1000

I will respect them when they stop killing innocent citizens, the disabled, family dogs running away from them, children, etc. See what you can do about that. I don’t respect bullies.

Same here sevenstones1000 same here...I can identify with your comment because I see myself in your words. Remember we are not ones that are morally corrupt that's why we see what we see and say what we say...they are the ones that are morally corrupt because well it's all there in their words. ...for all to see how morally corrupt they really are.

Who knew I would need to protect my dog more than she needs to protect me? Luckily she doesn't know that, because it's her dog job to protect me and she does it well.

Awteam2021

JSK, Why do you always exaggerate? Questioning a police stop on Rte 806 near the Catoctin furnace is “ reflective of what is happening in many large cities.”? And you brought up critical thought 💭?🤔 Much to do about nothing.

Jenkins made a big deal over a non incident for political friction. He such a small time unprofessional “Bull" Connor.

jsklinelga

aw

You just do not get it. How dangerous and potentially explosive a situation could become if people started stopping and interfering with police work. A thousand words could not cover the potential dangers.

But I know you do not get it. Several weeks ago I posted about how dangerous the job is in the inner cities. It is a war zone in a sense and situations get out of hand. I suggested that a person who is an ardent supporter of the anti-police movement should take a walk through downtown Baltimore and realize how happy they would be when they saw a [police officer. You replied you had done this by attending a game at Camden Yards and parking in an off street lot.

How brave knowing that there is a huge police presence at sporting events. If you really want to see how brave these folks are, drive to the projects and get out and walk. I bet you would pray to see a police officer. Then you would know hpw dangerous and demanding their work is. When you do this I will respect your opinion. Until then I have little respect for someone denigrating others who are far more valiant and community oriented.

And the work is dangerous here so let us salute the service.

Awteam2021

Come-on JSK, stop being a Drama Queen. Kai didn’t interfere with the police officer. If he did, you don’t think Chuck would not have arrested him? Ravens season ticket owner since its founding. Have an apartment in Downtown Baltimore (Fells Point)… blocks away from Frederick Douglass Homes, which you would refer to as projects.🤦‍♂️ There no projects on the 4 miles of Rte.806. I could have gone to the Capitol on Jan. 6. 140 officers injured in the insurrection. News break: Your respect of my opinion isn’t something I’m seeking. You got to do better then that.

Plumbum

No danger happened. So all you wrote doesn’t matter. Everyone went home

MD1756

so, plumbum by you logic, attempted murder where the intended victim was not hurt should not be punished simply because the would be murderer failed?

Dwasserba

I respect police. I don’t assume this was lack of respect. Observing police at work in the past has failed to save lives and/or careers, that’s true, but what else can a citizen do but continue to hope to avoid catastrophes.

micky

Vote for Kai, "The Enforcer".

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