I was very disheartened reading about the rationales of the Reopen Maryland demonstrators for their May 2 Frederick protest.

While I understand and sympathize with economic concerns, I simply can’t fathom why people would consider stay-at-home protective orders tyranny and infringe on their rights.

This is a public health crisis, and responsible public health officials are trying to keep as many of us alive as possible. By not wanting to observe such constraints, protesters put themselves and everyone with whom they come into contact in jeopardy, and they do not have the right to do that.

How can protesters not understand that if hospitals are not overwhelmed, it’s precisely because stay-at-home and social distancing measures have been working? And the retired nurse who claims “viruses don’t scare healthcare workers ... certainly not this one” — the virus, frankly, doesn’t care one whit about bravado or assertion of individual rights.

This is an enemy who won’t be stopped by defiance or guns; it will be stopped by reducing its spread. That’s what makes our health care and other essential workers our heroes. Despite their fears, they are on the front line. And frankly, if you want to reject protective measures to show how super-human you are, while endangering others around you, then I think you should also reject the medical care you or your loved ones would need when they get sick. Because that will happen. That’s how this works.

Paulette Lee

Frederick

(78) comments

Steve Neilsen

I can’t imagine what these protestors will endure once they experience ACTUAL oppression.

bosco

With apologies to Martin Niemoller:

When they locked down the hair salons,

I remained silent;

I did not need a haircut.

When they locked down the small shops,

I remained silent;

I could go to WalMart..

When they locked down the state parks,

I did not speak out;

I did not need to go camping.

When they prohibited gatherings,

I remained silent;

I did not need to attend.

When they arrested me for not wearing a mask,

there was no one to speak out.

This is why Americans protest. It is our right and our duty.

MD1756

So, are you protesting for the right to potentially spew your virus (if you've been infected) onto others without and regulation, control or precaution? Seems similar to the right of petroleum refineries (and other industries that pollute heavily) would like to spew benzene and other pollutants (without those pesky regulations) into neighborhoods and other properties they don't own. After all, isn't it the other people's fault for living near a refinery? The nerve of some people who expect to be able to use their own property without adverse impact from large corporations.

During times of high risk, it is not unreasonable to require the use of masks (or some other control) if you choose to go out in public to protect others from your actions. Would you agree that if you do have the virus and pass it along because you choose not to wear a mask (or use some other control) that those who get the virus from you should be able to charge you for assault, and if someone dies because of your action you should be charged with manslaughter? Or maybe the right to protect ones life comes into play and if you're not wearing a mask and come within unacceptable proximity to others, they have the right to exercise self defense as they see fit to protect themselves from your actions? We've already seen at least one case where people used lethal force because a store properly refused admittance of a girl who was not wearing a mask. What else will protesters do in the name of not wearing a mask because yo don't want to?

During the Spanish flu, many were smart enough to know to wear masks. (for images, see: https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/photos-from-the-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic/ ) Has the population become more stupid over time? Maybe the protesters fall in the Calvin camp of thought - https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2013/01/08

rbtdt5

It's simple, if you are worried, stay home. If you want to go earn money and live, you should be allowed to do so. As far as charging someone with assault, it is up to you to protect yourself. Stay indoors and away from people if you are scared, just don't force everyone else to do the same.

Moon otter

you mean die

rbtdt5

Moon - Please don't tell me you think everyone that catches this is going to die. Also, it's still a small percentage that even catches it. Again though, you can always choose to stay home

Moon otter

R you can have it not even know it. Asymptomatic. Carrier. And symptoms can show up later. So you can infect someone who could more susceptible to it. Don't you get it. Just because you have a right, you have a responsibility to other human beings. Businesses need to be closed if they have chance of infecting others not the owner but patrons. You are a fool. We have 328 million people in the US we haven't gotten close to testing enough. Let's put it this way, say a meat packing plant opens up. One person is asymptomatic. Passes the virus to say 49 others of the 100 in the plant. Seven days later the first 50 are now infected, sick but they had infected the last 50. Now you have no workers. There is no testing being done on a wide scale in the US and we are so far behind the 8 ball on this thanks to your wonderful t rump person. Now we have three individuals in the white house who have self quarantine themselves, they tested positive. meanwhile jerkwater and pence continue being stupid. Just like you..

bosco

Moonotter, please explain what testing wil do to make you feel safe. If you get tested and are negative today, you could be positive tomorrow. Will a zero death rate make you feel safe? I am curious about the angst about reopening with precautions.

jsklinelga

rbtdt5

I understand your position but you guys are touching upon a subject that has not been openly considered.. What if somebody test positive. Will they be required to quarantine? Or will they be required to wear a protective mask in public? With legal ramifications. These areas have not even been publicly discussed. Hogan's plan, understandably, is void of details after the very first part of phase one. The next few months will be extremely interesting. ,

rbtdt5

Maybe read slower Moon, If you are high risk or scared of getting it you can stay home and protect yourself, for those of us that aren't we should be allowed to live our lives. Not sure why this upsets you so much that you have to resort to name calling but I guess that what one does when they can't defend their side of a debate. Enjoy the rest of your day Moon

rbtdt5

JSK - I am all for masks, and distancing. I'm not saying open like normal, I'm fine with new temporary rules. Only so many people can come in a time, wear mask, whatever. I'm not against making the sick stay home, they should be staying home. I don't claim to have all the answers but we need to get things up and running again.

And no one has been able to explain how it would be more dangerous to have some small businesses open. When we have 100's of people inside these big box stores at the same time, how is that safer than having 3 people at a time in a comic book store?

And Businesses will not be forced to open, so if they feel it's best to stay closed, they are welcome to do that. Just as people that don't want to go out don't have too.

hayduke2

rbtd - show me the data for it being a small percentage who actually catches the virus. Wonder what it would be if we had large scale testing?

MD1756

No one is being forced to stay at home all the time. You are basically arguing that it is your right to go out into the public without trying to reduce the risk to others by not wearing a mask or taking other precautions and those that don't feel that way can stay at home because of what you perceive as your "rights." So again, I pose to you the question of my rights if I were perceive you as a threat. After all the Declaration of independence says that "life" is one of those certain unalienable rights.

Please bear in mind I'm not saying we shouldn't reopen but there needs to be restrictions and precautions and wearing masks is one of them. (Again they knew enough to do that in 1919. Are we now dumber than they were in 1919?)

bosco

There is no requirement to wear a mask while simply going out in public. It's only when entering a retail establishment. There is no requirement to social distance , just to do so when possible. If you choose to wear a mask 24/7, that is your choice - but do not go out in public with the expectation that others will do the same. If that makes you fearful for your own health, then you should stay home.

Jim Hartley

You put it so well!! "Camping", "hair salons", "WalMart"!! All those refuges from the tyranny of the physicians and epidemiologists! Superb!

Moon otter

Then just maybe it is the right of the doctor not to heal you when you get it. Think about it. The thing is doctors have taken an oath to help humanity. You are on the other hand is selfish jerk

phydeaux994

Except when the protests are about Gun Control or Abortion Rights or Equal Rights or any other “Left Wing” causes. Then the protesters are called “Rioters”.

bosco

Protestors such as ANTIFA at Berkley who were trying to prevent free speech because they didn't agree with the speaker or his message? How was that helpful?

Maybe Schumer when he showed up with protestors at the Supreme Court and threatened the judges that they would feel the whirlwind?

threecents

Bosco, I hope you get fined if you don't wear a mask or social distance. The more people react smartly, the less the disease will spread, and the sooner everything can open up. Isn't that obvious?

bosco

Threecents, why would I be fined if I don't wear a mask in public outdoors? Please cite the order that says we must wear a mask outside. Why would I be fined for not following social distancing guidelines. Please cite the order that REQUIRES social distancing anywhere.

bosco

Threecents, please explain under what order I would be fined for not wearing a mask outdoors. Please explain under what order I would be fined for not social distancing. Not your opinion, but the law/order.

Also, explain when you would reopen the economy.

jsklinelga

We just do not know. Science has some knowledge through a brief history and can make some calculated guesses based on prior outbreaks but we just do not know.

This we do know. People in good health and under Social Security age have an excellent chance of not dying nor getting violently ill if they contract the virus. People over 70, or people beyond 50 with high blood pressure, diabetes or excessive weight may die if they contract the virus.Those are the facts we know.

By the time any vaccine is widely available the health crisis or the economic crisis will have already taken its toll..

Flatten the curve and try to minimize the deaths (theoretical) risking a world wide economic depression or open back up risking a huge uptick of potential deaths but avoiding an economic catastrophe. Those are our choices.

We have no choice. Don't open back up and we will suffer the devastating effects of a major depression plus prolong this pandemic. Open back up and it is possible, with the Grace of God we can overcome this menace while protecting our most vulnerable..

Tmtmtm

You’re right, it really is a guess as to whether or not a vaccine will be developed quickly enough to make a difference to the overall deaths from this virus. Provided hospitals aren’t overwhelmed, flattening the curve further does nothing to reduce deaths without a vaccine. Those for extended shutdowns are, essentially, hoping for the vaccine to come quickly, or for the virus to fade away on its own. Those for reopening more quickly are assuming a vaccine will take too long, that we will end up with the same number of deaths if we stay shutdown, and that the economy will be further destroyed unnecessarily. There is a real human cost associated with economic hardship.

thump1202

Vaccines take at least 3 years to be developed for good reason. Any vaccine that comes out before that time period will not be tested correctly and is not something that my family or I will be partaking in. After it is well tested, sure, stop gap hysteric responses, no.

Steve Neilsen

jsklinelga said: “ Don't open back up and we will suffer the devastating effects of a major depression...”

We’ve spent $3 TRILLION on 19 years worth of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. But everyone $hits their pants over the government spending a few million to keep people alive.

hayduke2

Steve - I woud add the trillions to the military ( which we need and I support ) with no real oversight or accountability.

jsklinelga

Steve Neilson

Your comment is perplexing. I agree with hayduke that there is little accountability in government spending. Bot only the military but in many areas, even NIH Nut the government cannot come close to supporting our economy for any extended period of time. Look how fast 3 trillion dollars got spent and that only covered a fraction.

Spending a few million as you assert might be good for 10 seconds.

Moon otter

think silent hypoxia, meaning damage to the lungs and you don't have to have a full blown case of it. The young are just susceptible to the virus. Quit being fools

thump1202

If the author is that worried, why doesn't she just stay home after the restrictions are lifted? Delivery services will still function and she will certainly not risk things such as car accidents, violent crime, or any number of other things that when combined make facing the outside world a clearly unacceptable risk in her mind. In the meantime, the restrictions in Maryland were never really as bad as many thought, just total destruction for those who run and frequent small businesses. Why wish ill on these people for an illusion of personal safety? Shut down made sense when this disease was unknown, we know plenty about it now and can plan accordingly, the restrictions are being lifted, just as we had to live with the shut down we will have to also live with life going back to normal. Don't want to, stay home.

Jleftwich

Quote from Thump: " ...we know plenty about [Covid-19) now and can plan accordingly..."

The scientific community would beg to differ.

thump1202

The political leadership do, the doctors and researchers have reached plenty of conclusions. Who do you trust more?

Moon otter

we don't know everything about this virus. we are seeing the symptoms when one gets it and the outcomes and some of it can be long term. Don't say we know everything because the scientists and doctors aren't saying that at all, but you are, but you are wrong.

Greg F

To the protesters. Your kids are even endangered now.

threecents

I have no problem with people demonstrating to open businesses, and to a large degree I agree. The problem is that in order for things to open, we have to continue to wear masks and social distance where possible. When some demonstrators failed to do those things, they actually showed we may not be ready to open for business. See what I mean, bro? [sad]

bosco

I've lost track of the ever-changing orders from the governor. Please cite the governor's order that requires masks to be worn outdoors and to social distance outside. Chapter and verse - or a Cut and Paste will do.

threecents

Bosco, Good point, but we need to mask and distance no matter what the governor says. If we are too defiant or lazy, then it will take longer to open back up.

bosco

threecents, since masks are only required inside retail establishments and on public transportation, not wearing one elsewhere is not being "lazy or defiant." It's a choice.

Anyone who wants to wear a mask everywhere has that choice as well. Just ask the woman I saw driving a car with a full-face, twin cartridge respirator and a pair of rubber kitchen gloves. Her choice.

threecents

It's not complicated - social distance and/or masks.[tongue_smile]

Jleftwich

Bosco:

Exec. Order 20-04-15-01

Section II. Use of Face Coverings.

a. Effective as of 7:00 a.m. on April 18, 2020:

i. all riders and operators on any Public Transportation are required to wear

Face Coverings (excluding any operator in a separate compartment that is

off-limits to riders);

ii. all customers over the age of nine are required to wear Face Coverings

while inside the enclosed area of any Retail Establishment or Foodservice

Establishment;

iii. adult customers accompanying children age two through nine shall use

reasonable efforts to cause those children to wear Face Coverings while

inside the enclosed area of any Retail Establishment or Foodservice

Establishment;

iv. all Retail Establishments shall require staff to wear, and those staff shall

wear, Face Coverings while working in areas open to the general public

and areas in which interactions with other staff are likely; and

v. all Foodservice Establishments shall require staff who interact with

customers (including, without limitation, delivery personnel) to wear, and

those staff shall wear, Face Coverings while working.

(source: https://bit.ly/3fu2Byh)

bosco

Thanks Jleftwich. Face coverings inside retail establishments is all that is "required" I saw somewhere that social distancing was "where practical" or something like that.

If someone wants to wear a mask all the time, that's a choice. If I choose not to wear a mask except as required, it's a choice.

Tmtmtm

I disagree with the author’s statement that reducing the spread of the virus will stop it. Only herd immunity will stop it, be it by vaccine or by antibodies developed by people who have had the disease. It seems that the author’s implied assumption is that a vaccine will be developed quickly enough and be effective enough to artificially create herd immunity before the virus runs its course naturally, however fast or slow that may be. Hopefully a great vaccine comes along soon, but if not, it’s possible that the best course of action is for young, healthy people to go out and build up herd immunity naturally. Either way, hindsight is 20-20 and whoever actually is correct will assert their own intelligence and the opposition’s stupidity, but the truth will be that they just happened to guess correctly.

phydeaux994

Meanwhile, many thousands will die unnecessarily, most minorities and the poor who are the same people in many cases. That is happening now, unfortunately. So much for pro-life. But “Herd Immunity” is what Trump wanted to do in the beginning. And that is what he is doing now. “Let ‘er rip”.

Tmtmtm

Hey phy, honest question, are you optimistic that a vaccine will be developed faster than the virus could spread through a sufficient amount of the population to reach herd immunity, even with a full lockdown? If not, wouldn’t it be more responsible for young, healthy people at low risk of being seriously affected by the virus to go out and build that immunity to better protect those more vulnerable?

bosco

Phydeaux, what would your plan for reopening the economy look like? What sort of numbers of cases and deaths? What sort of death rate would be acceptable?

threecents

TreeTms, We don't know this virus will not fade away before herd immunity develops. MERS and SARS CoV1 are both Coronaviruses that faded away WithOut herd immunity.

Tmtmtm

Yeah, that’s even another possibility, threecents. What bothers me is how sure everyone acts and how they shame others who hold an opposite opinion to them just as surely. The truth is we don’t know what the best course of action is, no one does. And we won’t know if we have chosen correctly until we’ll after the choice has been made. So everyone on both sides of the political aisle should stop assuming the worst of intentions of their opponents. It’s honestly weird that this has turned this partisan.

threecents

[thumbup]ThreeTm On the bright side, we are living through a historical event that could have been worse, and we are learning a lot that will help everyone respond better to the next pandemic.

Tmtmtm

Very true, threecents. As terrible as covid-19 is, I would take covid over the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918 any day.

Jleftwich

The heard immunity concept seems to be getting traction...from politicos, mostly. Because they want a seemingly fast track to relaunch the economy.

Problem is, we already have 70,000 deaths. We could reach over 100K by next weekend. There does not seem to be any realistic way to achieve herd immunity without many, many more deaths.

There is still much to learn about Covid. we are still struggling to protect the vulnerable. And there's uncertainly about how children are affected, and what settings the disease is transmitted (e.g., is it airborne *longer* in crowded conditions).

The way to go about this right now is test, trace and quarantine.

bosco

Tmtmtm..[thumbup]

DickD

It appeared to be Trump supporters with MAGA hats. Far right wingers that don't care about safety even though Trump has a fit when someone in the White House has the virus.

secpol1970

Nice try but there are business owners whose livelihood is being destroyed by not being able to work. Treasonous democrats must love whats going on because they know they only way to get rid of him is through the economy. Far left wingers like you must love that.

Dwasserba

Because Dems are immune to any economic effects. Yeah.

marinick1

[thumbup]

olefool

What kind of business are you in secpol?? Did you claim your business handouts, or stimulus funds?

FrederickFan

No sure why you blame anything on Dems. Last time I checked both Trump and Hogan are Republicans. Hogan is valuing life over money. I thought you right wingers followed your leaders!

DickD

FF

There are Republicans and Trumpettes that are registered Republicans. They are not the same.

Greg F

So much for faithful republicans claiming to be pro life. They're now the death panels.

rbtdt5

Fed-Up, if the country opens up, no is saying you have to go out into it. If you are scared to go out, you will have the option to stay in. See the difference? At your age and size though, you should stay in and be safe. Short people over 70 are higher risk.

public-tertiary

Fed-Up, I always favored death panels. I wanted to serve on one. Much to my annoyance, the congressional office of Roscoe Bartlett told me there were no death panels and there were no application forms to serve on one. I referred them to Sarah Palin’s public comments but they insisted she was wrong. Harumph.

Greg F

Treason? No....hardly....go back to Fox and your confederate flag waiving buddies. You're no patriot by going around mask-free like that idiot Pence and his moronic cohort Trump. As close as Covid is getting to those two nitwits, it won't be long before one or both get it....just like you if you think you're somehow going to be saved by miracles Trump promises. Your parents and grandparents and beyond suffered far worse than this and made far more sacrifices, yet your sort would rather shoot a store clerk rather than lower yourself to wearing a (oh..horror...) mask. It must be such a sacrifice to cover your mug with something that can literally save their lives. Nope...your kind would rather bump heads, shake hands and waive your keisters around like there's nothing going on. Look at both Miami Beach and Newport Beach...both having to be shut down after nobody followed guidelines. There's your flag-waiving conservatives out there...self-centered as always and blinded by racism, propaganda from Fox, Hannity and Limbacile...and the like. Dems are business owners too and are suffering...but they also don't parade around with guns to shoot a microbe. Your moron in the oval office is really the treasonous one who's lied time and time again and hid the entire problem since day one and shifted blame everywhere else. You're too blind to see.

hayduke2

You sure are free and loose with the "treason" word. Get real secpol.. Does the economic impact only hit Republicans - what a silly argument and statement.

Jleftwich

Dead people can't spend money.

Moon otter

you do know the small business loans they were suppose to get, went where to large corporations hmm why T rump wanted no oversight of the program. why is Rcers getting it.

secpol1970

I guess someone like you doesn't have a business or job that requires you to be AT WORK to put food on the table. I guess someone like you doesn't hve a business that they built from the ground up watching it slowly be destroyed by not being able to maintain business. Our economy is being destroyed by those who think we can stay at home for an indefinite period of time. I will bet you are some retired government worker that has no skin in the game.

rbtdt5

[thumbup]

Jleftwich

Totally understand the trepidation felt by SBOs. And everyone want to get the economy back on track.

What’s disturbing to witness from some (e.g., protesters) is the outright rejection of science: of evidence of how the disease spreads. This, coupled with the objection over wearing a mask is befuddling.

Much as we’d all like, we cannot just “flip the switch.” We need to get back on track *safely* and follow the guidance outlined that will get us there.

https://governor.maryland.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/MD_Strong.pdf

Greg F

Yeah...trump's miracle is gonna be along about any time now...just like ol' Jebus coming back from the dead any time now....well...he's 2020+ years overdue so I think the miracle for the virus is gonna happen after Jebus's return...and we're still waiting on that...er..well...some are...the rest of us realize it's not happening.

Dwasserba

Properly placed, a simple "if" instead of "like you" renders a comment less aggressively hostile.

marinick1

[thumbup]

olefool

Troll somewhere else secpol.

awteam2000

secpol1970, Our economy is being destroyed by those who think we can now open up our economy not having a vaccination, without the necessary safety precautions in place, a well coordinated testing initiative in play, on a national level.

We are in this place because this administration disastrous response: lack of take this virus seriously for more than two months and proven ineptitude.

Now, even the White House has implemented testing of everyone surrounding the president and in the west wing on a daily bases. Is your family, friends, employees less important? Mine aren’t. This isn’t magically going away.

Things will get better. It might take until November, when a new president is selected. One with the leadership ability focus on the crisis not his ‘self perception and self benefit. An adult, not blaming others because they can’t they don’t know what to do, can’t lead in a crisis, can’t handle the challenge. The end of ridiculous suggestions, like Ingesting disinfectants, instead taking the lead in intelligent solutions to address the virus and get the economy back to where is was when Obama left office.

No. Trump will not be re-elected. Thank god.

But we need to limit the damage he can possibly do over the next few months. Yes, he can make things even worse.

Greg F

secpol is probably a Russian plant sent to stir the pot. Or a paid trump stooge trolling around for support.

Moon otter

[thumbup][thumbup]

Greg F

...at work....like a lot of immigrants, low wage workers, many of which aren't republicans? You seem to lump workers as republicans whereas I'd bet there are many democrats in the same boat...."someone like you"...like what....ill informed? Hateful? Spiteful? Not willing to wear a mask? Hmmm....

phydeaux994

20% of small businesses fail in the 1st year, 50% by year 5 and 70% by year 10. Thousands of small businesses fail every year. It’s a tough road in the best of times. The hardest hit by the pandemic are the lowest paid and minorities. Hispanics 19%, Blacks 16%, Asians 14%, Whites 12%, food workers, service workers, hospitality workers, factory workers, not small business owners. By opening up, you are extending the crisis, not ending it as Trump has fantasized. Check out Arizona and see.

Moon otter

[thumbup][thumbup]

Moon otter

you didn't save money. I thought republican save money for the rainy day, when it comes along. Or did you have buy a new boat or the largest truck on the market.

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