This is regarding Department of Justice lawyer Sarah Fabian’s argument that the government is not required to provide the children in the migrant detainment camps with soap and toothbrushes.

There is no religion that finds this acceptable. Humanists don’t find this ethical. This is not a different political view.

I define concentration camps as places where a group of people are imprisoned because of a shared quality: race, nationality, legal status, religion, sexuality, for example. The ultimate official goal is to kill off the prisoners, either by direct means, or by deliberately creating conditions that will cause the deaths of a large number of the prisoners. That there may be survivors doesn’t mitigate the situation.

I define internment camps as places to imprison the same groups of people as listed above. However, the ultimate official goal is to release those people once certain outside political conditions are met.

Using these definitions, imprisoning children while denying them soap makes the camp a concentration camp. It is an established fact that lack of access to basic cleanliness, including access to soap, leads to epidemics, such as cholera, which have high mortality rates. Cholera symptoms can appear in as little as 12 hours, or in five days. It usually takes two to three days. Therefore, if a government deliberately creates these conditions, it is knowingly creating conditions that will lead to the death of the prisoners.

Yes, cholera is treatable. So is starvation and deathly temperature. That it can be treated doesn’t stop it from being a lethal living condition.

Meg Shallanberger

Frederick

(56) comments

Megguinea

I think the camps Jews were put into during WWII, should be called what they were, death camps. An even worse level of evil than concentration camps. I agree with the labelling of the children's detention centers as concentration camps. I was looking for current examples of death camps and other concentration camps. I found that camps exist that have elements of each. Then it hit me that I found enough examples to wonder what to label them, or whether to create new categories. I realized I was focusing on the wrong issue.

phydeaux994

On January 20, 2017, when Trump took office there was no Border Crisis. The number of illegal aliens had decreased for the entirety of the Obama Administration. Illegal Border crossings were at a 10 year low, more were leaving than coming in. None were asking fo Asylum. The Humanitarian Crisis started in January of this year, created by Trumps threats to build a “WALL” and “Close the Border”. So the coyotes used those threats to convince the Central Americans to make the trip before the Border closed and started running caravans of busses. They just bribed the notoriously corrupt Mexican Police and they bring thousands more every day. Trump has created every crisis in America for the last 2 1/2 years.

threecents

Much like whenever there is mention of new gun control laws, the NRA convinces people to buy more guns.

gabrielshorn2013

Nahh, no crisis needed three [beam][beam][beam]

jsklinelga

"more were leaving than coming in. None were asking fo Asylum."' ????? I wonder how many Pinocchios for that one

twhit8225

It was once said that the prisoner of war facility at Guantanamo Cuba was a breeding camp for future terrorist. Just think in 15 or 20 years many of these children that are now kept in these holding pens will come of age and begin to terrorize the country that they had hoped to move to and love.

secpol1970

This mental midget still has no idea of what a concentration camp is much less even been to one. Difference is those in WW2 were forced there while these illegal aliens came here on their own accord. This mental midget who wrote this garbage still needs to learn history before she wastes the time and energy in writing such nonsense. Oh by the way it was a progressive democrat who put the Japanese Americans into these internment camps.

“mental midget”, where in the ‘letter to the editor’ does it refer to WWII? Concentration camps have been used throughout modern history . The term comes from the Spanish term ‘ reconcentración’ to isolate and contain a population by force. Maybe you could use a class in history. Yes, concentration camps were used to carry out the holocaust but not the only time in modern history and not only by the Nazis.

Samanthapowers

Don’t confuse that one with facts, aw.

Thewheelone

Secpol, can you for once respond to something and not call the writer a name? The only nonsense I have read so far here today is from you. You just may get your point across without insulting everyone you disagree with.

besmartten

It was not just a progressive democrat, but we the people that did that. Just as we the people are now allowing imprisonment of these children. Or call a cage or jail or camp whatever you want.

jsklinelga

There is assuredly one way to stop the overcrowding. No one wants to see anyone, child or adult, mistreated. For years we have done little to ease the poverty in our neighboring countries. I guarantee you it is equal fault regardless of party. This is now a politically created crisis. The Democratic party I belonged to is gone. They cry crocodile tears and use the misery of others for political gain. Absolutely disgraceful.

DickD

You are absolutely wrong, Jim. More judges, which Trump refuses to provide could process the children in less than a week. If Trump wants money for the wall, why not money for more judges. It's absolutely discrimination and anyone supporting it is as bad as Trump. And there's no need for a wall if conditions are improved in Central America. If we do the morally correct there would be no reason to be inhumane. You go to church, do they advise you to be inhumane. You believe in Christian values, but don't practice them.

jsklinelga

DickD Judges for close to a million backlog cases??? The judges will be he first to tell you the system is broken and that is not from President Trump"s era. Try to color it anyway you want. As far as you espousing Christian values I am sorry but It falls on deaf ears. You have shown your Christian values for what they are.. And once again I say emphatically that the new democratic party using these immigrants as political pawns not truly caring one iota for the children beyond politics is absolutely disgraceful.

jsklinelga

DickD let me offer a quick apology for critiquing your faith. There are variables in real life situations with seldom a perfect path.

DickD

Christian values is not treating these children like they are being treated. Have you ever heard of the beattudes, Jim. Thank you for the apology, but it annoys me when Republicans support Trump who has proven time and again he is a cruel egomaniac mobster.

DickD

I don't where you got 1 million cases from. Jim, but the most recent records are from 2016. They show 73,000 hearings with 20,455 being granted asylum. Most were released and 96% showed up for their court hearing.

jsklinelga

DickD 1 million ,may be high. Just so you would trust the source I used All Things Considered, NPR, May 2019: "Overshadowing all of this, however, is the huge backlog of immigration cases already in the system waiting to go before the courts. More than 800,000 cases are waiting to be resolved, according to The New York Times."

800,000 to 1,000,000 waiting to be processed? That’s 12 to 16 NFL football games in a single stadium in a single season, going through the gates. Sounds like it’s time to speed up the process of ticket verification at the g ates, more ticket takers, more judges. Btw, ‘empathy’ is the capacity to understand or feel what another person’s experiences from within their frame of reference, that is, the capacity to place oneself in another person position. It’s believe the term was first sighted in Ancient Greek literature. ‘Empathy’ is not a political characteristic but a moral characteristic, to recognizing another’s dilemma. You don’t have to be a democrat or republican to be empathetic. That’s called human.

DickD

What you neglected to say, Jim, is that article also states that back log of cases waiting for a hearing has increased by 50% since Trump has taken office. If Trump and the Republicans were acting in good faith this back log would be going down, not up.

“No one wants to see anyone, child or adult, mistreated.” Really? Trump has publicly said he will not reinstate the widely-condemned policy of separating children from parents who had illegally crossed the border. He feels it’s a deterrent by having the children suffer.

Trump now cancels English, soccer, legal aid for child migrants in Interment facilities. https://www.heraldnet.com/nation-world/trump-cancels-english-soccer-legal-aid-for-child-migrants/

threecents

Uggg. Each time I remember Trump is still president, it is still like a fresh kick to the gut. How can we be proud to be American when we do things like that? There is the hope that he will be impeached and soundly trounced in the next election. There is the hope that Republicans will wake up and pick a different candidate in the primaries - assuming the GOP lets them.

DickD

What we need is more judges to process all immigrants expeditiously.  No holding in a cage for 20 days, no separation of parents and children.  Get more judges or allow all entry, which none of us want, but more logically and cheaper than holding cages.  Also. let's improve conditions in Central America, so there is no need to come to the U.S.

MD1756

How do we pay for those judges? Tax the home countries?

DickD

Easy, if we are not putting children in a nasty prison for 20 days or more we would save a lot. If we improve conditions in Central America we may not need the judges.

threecents

How do we pay those judges? Um, we use about 0.0000001% of the federal budget.

MD1756

That is overly simplistic. It doesn't matter what percentage of the federal revenue the judiciary's budget is. The federal courts operate under a budget and an increase in the number of judges means that more funding would be needed or other areas would have to be cut. So, where is the funding coming from? I'd agree to taxing the countries the people are coming from so they can pay the costs, or taxing remittances of people sending their income out of the country.

DickD

No matter what the far right Trump cult say, treatment of children at the border is inhumane.   You cannot be a Evangelical Christian and support Trump. If you do, you are a hypocrite.

User1

So why aren’t you bad mouthing Crybaby Schumer or Wicked Nancy Pelosi. It was congress that PASSED A LAW that dictates children cannot be kept in the same detention facilities as adults! Change the law!! Better yet...keep the illegals OUT! Have you opened your house to any of the illegals in Frederick? Why not? Whose the hypocrite now?

I’ll take two.

threecents

User, Time for a FACT CHECK. It was Jeff Sessions who started the policy of separating children from patents. It was his interpretation of existing law that changed the policy!!!!!!! Who forgot that he said, "If you don't want your child separated, then don't bring them across the border illegally. It's not our fault that somebody does that." https://www.npr.org/2018/05/29/615211215/fact-check-are-democrats-responsible-for-dhs-separating-children-from-their-pare

besmartten

Crybaby and Wicked. Ah another name caller. keep the illegals OUT! you say, well many are people seeking asylum, so not illegal. No law to change, they must be given a hearing. Just not enough judges. So if I am opposed to spouse beating, but don't take anybody into my house I'm a hypocrite ehh.

threecents

Whoa, whoa, whoa - You think the ultimate GOAL was to kill the children in that facility? Even Mike Pence expressed outrage over the conditions at that facility where about 300 kids were kept for months in awful conditions and asked congress to provide more money so that does not happen again. The Justice Dept lawyer, Sarah Fabian, is no doubt an idiot, but I don't think she is representing an effort to kill detained immigrants. Please let's not resort to Trump style tactics with fake news. What I would like is real news - including how many immigrants have really died while in federal custody.

threecents

I asked Google: 24 people have died in ICE custody during the Trump administration, so please let's not call these concentration camps or death camps; people are not being systematically tortured or killed. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/24-immigrants-have-died-ice-custody-during-trump-administration-n1015291

Doctor compared conditions for unaccompanied children at immigrant holding centers to 'torture facilities. https://t.co/C9vQjimq4C

Concentration camps aren’t exclusively a holocaust tragedy. Long before Auschwitz there were concentration camps, from Cuba to South Africa. The camps start out as containment centers but over time turn into termination facilities. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/concentration-camps-existed-long-before-Auschwitz-180967049/

threecents

OK, these are not concentration camps or death camps. People are not being kidnapped from their homes to be deliberately tortured or killed. This is incompetence and lack of leadership and resources. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/20/chuck_todd_why_arent_democrats_calling_out_alexandria_ocasio-cortez_for_concentration_camp_comments.html?fbclid=IwAR1oBrcC8NsiUqC0G12FI_nIaNZjINIDbW3SYRP40yjZ8v67BcRNn1b-vdM

The definition of Concentration Camps is a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. It’s most often associate with how they were used by the Nazis to exterminate people during WWII but not exclusive to the holocaust. Just sayin 🤷‍♂️.

DickD

You don't believe that keeping children in a cage with 105 degree temperatures, no ability to wash or clean oneself, poor food and babies in dirty diapers is not torture? Would you want your children treated that way?

Dwasserba

And there's lice. Children need parents.

shiftless88

They are being traumatized

User1

Really? Tortured? Dying in ICE custody is not torture. Over half of these arrived with communicable diseases. Infection, dehydration. Should just turn them around and force them back into Mexico.

besmartten

Webster definition :a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard what we are doing meets the definition.

The Government abruptly moved 300 migrant kids yesterday after reports of horrible health conditions in facility. https://apnews.com/a7a9acc4c6a546829a258e008d10d705

In recent months, at least seven children have either died in custody or after being detained by federal immigration agencies at the border. https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/immigrants-rights-and-detention/children-continue-die-government-custody-and

MD1756

Additionally, how many of these people would have died if they weren't in federal custody (some of those who came into federal custody needed treatment long before they entered federal custody), and how many were saved because they were in federal custody. Let's have a complete understanding of the numbers.

frazed

[thumbup]

gabrielshorn2013

[thumbup] md1756

knahs25

Good letter. Would our government want our children/citizens treated this way? Perhaps if our government assisted in Improving conditions in these countries then they would want to stay there.

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DickD

Bunny, are you saying that the liberals caused the Trump policy of locking up children and treating them inhumanely? You are totally wrong!

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frazed

[thumbup]

frazed

Do these countries bear any responsibility for improving conditions for their own citizens or do citizens of a different country bear that all on their own?

User1

Seems that as long as the Dimocrats in congress keep wanting more voters they welcome all comers. Why haven’t congress addressed DACA for the past two years? Trump agreed back then to three times the number that Pelosi wanted but then the Dimocrats said “NO” because they wanted their parents included also.

Comment deleted.
Samanthapowers

That’s the mentality the grifter at 1600 follows - and his clan. Save your self serving outrage.

Comment deleted.
Samanthapowers

Not to mention we created the problems. Or is that an inconvenient truth for you?

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