I believe a little compare/contrast is in order regarding the Feb. 9 article about the second impeachment of Donald Trump.

Grievous crime was committed in 1968 at the Chicago Democratic Convention. The crime was committed by the Chicago police, evidenced and filmed by multiple news and public entities. However, it was eight anti-war and civil justice demonstrators who were charged with, found guilty of, and later acquitted of 43 charges, among them inciting a riot.

Political theater was the Youth International Party (Yippies, of which I was a member) running Pigasus the pig for president that same year.

Grievous crime was committed in 1970 at Kent State University when a few members of Ohio National Guard's Troop G turned and fired on student anti-war demonstrators, killing four and wounding nine others. However, it was 24 students and a professor who were charged with, and later acquitted of, inciting a riot.

Political theater was a Kent student calling for people to come to a rally in which a dog would be napalmed, with no actual intent to do so. The intent was to get students to show up in order to teach them what napalm really was doing to humans in Vietnam.

Grievous crime was committed on Jan. 6 when Donald Trump exhorted his followers to "fight like hell" at the Capitol, and they followed what they perceived as his orders.

First Amendment free speech protections do not permit one to holler "Fire!" in a crowded theater when there is no actual fire. Words matter. Words can have unintended consequences.

Donald Trump's First Amendment free speech rights to his followers to march to the Capitol are protected rights; calling on them to fight may have, in his mind, not been meant literally, but are not protected because he should have known his followers would take them literally.

Impeached or not, he should most certainly be charged as a civilian with inciting a riot. He should also be required to pay for the damage done, since it was his words that led to it. Words matter. Words can have unintended consequences.

Political theater does not end in death threats to our country's vice president — or anyone else — or thousands of dollars in damage to the very center of our republic. Even the most extreme Weather Underground never attacked the Capitol.

(20) comments

Awteam2021

Five died during the insurrection on January 6... If Trump is tried and found guilty for inciting the insurrection. He could be charged with felony murder. The “Felony Murder Doctrine” allows a killing that occurs in the course of a dangerous felony, even an accidental death, to be charged against the felon as first-degree murder. A felon can be guilty of murder during the course of the dangerous felony even if the felon is not the actual killer.

Trump is in much bigger trouble now then in the impeachment. And looking very guilty.

public-redux

Like the getaway car driver being charged with murder because the inside guy got spooked and killed the convenience store clerk. We law and order conservatives know all about that. [thumbup][thumbup]

Icemancometh

I guess I’m old school, people need to think before they act. If I elected to go to Capital to protest, it is up to said individual to do so within the law regardless of who is pushing the buttons. If my actions turn violent then I should be accountable for those actions. Let’s pretend we are setting at the same time table having an adult discussion before typing responses, that is how should be done. The courts could still make their way back to hold the former president accountable.

threecents

Of course everyone is responsible for their actions - no matter what the president said or did.

threecents

I don't think there is any reasonable doubt that Trump meant to incite violence, but that is not the point. The point is whether it was reasonable for the rioters to think Trump incited them toward violence. And even if you somehow are not convinced that was Trump's goal, the rioters reasonably believed they were doing what Trump told them to do. The legal case for incitement is proven. Then there are other factors that make Trump even more culpable. The impeachment managers presented strong evidence that Trump specifically wanted that violence to delay the formal electoral college vote. There is also the matter of how Trump behaved once he knew there was violence and the point about him taking hours to do anything to stop the violence. This needs to be fleshed out in criminal and civil courts.

public-redux

Repeatedly and baselessly asserting that the election was rife with fraud was both political theater and grievously criminal.

While I think McConnell should have led his party to convict, I am pleased that he pointedly observed that acquittal doesn't exempt Trump from the criminal and civil justice systems.

Dwasserba

McConnell is a shrewd politician teetering on a live wire between deep pocketed liberal donors and....Kentucky.

threecents

I would like to give McConnell the benefit of the doubt, as he pointed a clear path for Republicans to divorce themselves from Trump, and I never would have predicted that. But yah, it is hard to see him as anything but the polarizing but brilliant political animal that he has proven to be over the years. My guess is that he concluded Trump has simply become more of a liability than an asset to the GOP.

public-redux

You would be a fool to give McConnell the benefit of the doubt. George Will had a column today that was spot on about Mitch.

jsklinelga

Ms. Urbanowicz,

Your statement: " them to fight may have, in his mind, not been meant literally, but are not protected because he should have known his followers would take them literally.." sums up the situation perfectly.

You would wish to convict someone on what you perceive his state of mind to be. Forget that President Trump urged his supporters to be peaceful and patriotic.

You raise an excellent point. Neither the Capitol Police nor any government agency responsible for protecting the Capitol expected this riot. History. The hundreds of thousands that had attended the large number of rallies over the past several years ever acted out in such a manner.

Of course if it would have been a rally by the BLM movement of Antifa, groups you seemed more aligned with, there would have been a huge law enforcement prescience These groups have a history of large scale harm and destruction..

Jim Hartley

Was Joe Biden elected in a free and fair election? Where was Barak Obama born? Is Donald Trump "A good man with a big heart"?

threecents

You forgot to say "Hussein".

Jim Hartley

The Orange Vulgarian can only be defended with irrelevances.

public-redux

Had he said Hussein, it would have been proper for it to have been all caps — HUSSEIN — to show proper respect.

Awteam2021

Jsk, Weeks before, Trump urged his cult to come to DC on January 6. In his speech, that very day of January 6, Trump urged his supporters to be peaceful and patriotic 1 time, he called for them to fight 16 times. He said, "We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore," while acting out punching.

Hayduke2

Sorry jsk, former president Trump has never urged his supporters to be peaceful and patriotic. Have you conviently forgotten the Lock Her Up chants, offering to pay legal fees for those who punched people not supporting him - "Seriously. Just knock the hell out of them. I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. There won’t be so much of them because the courts agree with us,”, " I can walk down 5th Ave and shoot someone...", “That will never happen with me. I don’t know if I’ll do the fighting myself or if other people will. But that was a disgrace. … I felt badly for him, but it showed that he’s weak.”, “Get him the hell out of here! Get him out of here! Throw him out!” Conveinent to forget this and the many other similar statements, right jsk.

public-redux

I don't think "patriotic" includes refusing to accept the result of a free and fair election. Indeed, I would call that "unpatriotic".

threecents

At one point Democrats like me had to admit we were wrong about Bill Clinton - that he had lied about having an affair - maybe multiple affairs, but this is a little more serious than an affair. Trump still insists the election was stolen and half the Republican party seems to believe him. Until that changes, the country's divide will just increase. Bill admitted he lied under oath. Trump needs to admit his lies, and all Republican's need to acknowledge them.

phydeaux994

“The BLM movement of ANTIFA”??😂🤣😂🤣Are you trying to relate the two jsk??You are without a doubt the most disingenuous, whacked out BleedingHeartLiberal/RacistHaterTrumpDisciple in the land jsk. “The BLM movement of ANTIFA”.....that is the best one yet!!!😂🤣😂🤣BTW, show me a video of a riot with someone waving an ANTIFA Flag.😂🤣😂🤣

phydeaux994

“There's also a growing presence of Boogalo Bois, a gun-toting, Hawaiian shirt-wearing anti-government group, often misrepresented as a straightforward white supremacist group, at the Black Lives Matter protests. They have been accused of fomenting some of the violence blamed on Antifa by the Trump administration”.

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