Here we go again, another liberal contributor, Anadi Naik, writing that all our pandemic troubles are to be blamed on President Trump while claiming that he used Russia to win the election in 2016 (disproved) and used Ukraine to do the same for the 2020 election. (The Biden end of the Ukraine story is much, much deeper and I’m sure it’ll bubble up soon enough.)

Does he actually believe what he wrote? I wonder, if the shoe was on the other foot and Hillary Clinton was elected in 2016, what would she be doing differently during this crisis. I’m sure flights between the U.S. and China would still be occurring. Oh, and the lack of personal protection equipment would be because the Republicans somehow blocked their purchase.

Although I don’t always agree with what our president says, he’s doing his best to curtail the virus and get our economy going. I can, with much certainty, tell you Hillary and her ilk wouldn’t be doing anything better. Most likely it would be worse due to their political correctness that would have delayed any motions of applying measures to protect our country and its citizens.

Let’s run a model on that and see what happens. The hypocrisy of the left knows no bounds.

(218) comments

Burgessdr

Clearly early onset dementia

olefool

British Writer Pens The Best Description Of Trump I’ve Read...

https://coming42.livejournal.com/479179.html?utm_source=fbsharing&utm_medium=social

Hollowed Ground

This writer has been drinking too much disinfectant. The last paragraph is laughable. Trump's standard protocol for any problem is, in sequential order, ignore, lie, deny, lie, divert, lie, fire the experts, lie, blame, lie and finally lie again. That has certainly been the case here. Hilary and her ilk would have done much much better because they never would have allowed things to get so out of hand.

mamlukman

Where to start? Did Trump "collude" with the Russians--according to the investigations, no. After all, collusions requires some planning and intelligence, both of which Trump doesn't have. Nor do his cronies. But did Putin WANT Trump elected? Of course. Did Putin try to get Trump elected by millions of social media posts? Of course. Is Putin happy Trump is president? Of course. Time after time Trump has done exactly what Putin wanted. Withdrawing from Syria is just one in a long list of example.

How has Trump handled the pandemic? With total ignorance and absolute arrogance. Was he right when he said "No one saw this coming?" Not even close. Every expert in pandemics and influenza has been predicting this for 30+ years. Some have been very explicit--watch Fauci's speech at Georgetown Jan. 10, 1917--three YEARS before this happened. He predicts a pandemic "in the next few years." Right on the money. Watch the documentary "Pandemic" on Netflix that follows experts around the world. ALL of them predicted this.

So what could Trump have done? a) Instead of taking WHO's word for what was going on, he could have sent Chinese-speaking experts to check it out. That's what Taiwan did. If he couldn't send his own experts, he could have picked up the phone and talked to Taiwan. By mid-January it was clear this spread person-to-person and it was a big deal. Here's an idea: how about prepare? Get as much PPE as possible--both by importing it and by manufacturing as quickly as possible. When the Germans began manufacturing the WHO tests, he should have said, "Thank you very much...we'll take as many as you can make." And of course he could have US labs working on tests as well. The re-agents needed for testing? Those should have been ordered back in January, not April. There should have been random testing in sample places (NY....) to see what percentage of the population was infected--not wait to test people until they were seriously ill. I could go on and on. Trump not only dropped the ball, he didn't even show up to the game.

Were all countries equally stupid? Not at all. New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, S. Korea, and esp. Taiwan did it right. Germany got it almost right. There is no secret to getting it right--it's common sense. NZ and other countries--wait for it--had a PLAN!!! Extraordinary, right? You can read the NZ plan online. Feel free. Taiwan realized after the SARS incident that they were vulnerable. What did they do? Take a wild guess--they too had a plan. And they passed a law that all hospitals had to have a month's worth of supplies on hand. And they did an extraordinary job of tracking passengers arriving in Taiwan--watch the PBS segment that tracks two Taiwanese returning, one from Australia, one from London. See all the steps Taiwan took. Did the US do ANY of this? Not even close. Trump went golfing and held rallies while he mocked the scientists and experts. And now we have 80,000 dead, and a lot more to come. Great job.

TINAE

Trump could shoot this person's family member and this person will still support and not blame him. It is what it is. November can't come soon enough.

threecents

[thumbup]Mam

bosco

One thing Australia did right was shut down their borders and eventually their territory (state) borders as well. Australia eventually prohibited their citizens from leaving their own country.

threecents

I didn't read most of the comments, but I get the feeling some people are getting stuck on herd immunity. Until there is a vaccine - which is probably not going to be soon - It might be more useful to think of the reservoir of the virus that can continue to mutate and infect people. That reservoir is mostly currently infected people. If we had enough testing - which we don't - we would do our best to contain that reservoir. The less the virus spreads, the less it mutates, and hopefully the fewer get infected. We don't know why some viruses fade away even without herd immunity, and we can just pray that this will fade away like the MERS and SARS coronaviruses did. Hopefully, the new promising drug and antibody treatments will also help keep it contained until an effective vaccine is available, and hopefully the virus won't have mutated so much that vaccines won't be effective. We can debate the big shutdown all night, but by slowing the virus, in the long run the shutdown very likely is saving millions of lives worldwide. That is something we can all be proud of.

threecents

Really tired of the FNP printing foolish conservative comments. There must be some intelligent conservatives who can write LTEs.

jagman

Really tired of the FNP printing foolish liberal comments. There must be some intelligent liberals who can write LTEs.

bosco

Zing. [lol][lol][lol][lol]

threecents

OK Boomers.

Greg F

Seems conservatives can’t write intelligent comebacks either.

des21

Are you tired of repetitive columns that repeat things- some true,most not- that have been reported in the MSM non-stop for 3.5 years or is that ok? Just curious.

MRS M

When all else has failed......... revert to attacking the media. Hey, those who profess to know world history and political systems, surely know this worked well in Germany, circa 1938; as well as most dictatorships and banana republics run by dangerous criminal crackpots though time. Thank God for the free press in America. No one here needs to be convinced any longer of the dangers to America of a news organization dictated to by the fringe-element of one political party, and run by a bankrupt reality TV personality. Or do you?

des21

Polly want a cracker? You think the criticism of the MSM is new? You're precious! That bubble you live in needs more oxygen, it effecting your brain.

Remember who "discovered" Whitewater and Tara Reade. Thank God for the non-lemming press indeed!

MRS M

Perhaps you missed my point, simple as it was. It's agreed that criticism of the press is NOT new. What is NEW in the history of our country, is the determination of one "news" organization to be beholden to, subservient to, and operated by the fringe element of one political party, pandering to that party and it's leaders in spreading lies, conspiracies, and untruths,. All in the name of providing unlimited centralized power to an aberrant leader and administration. The gullible and the syncophants have fallen victim . As has the Grand Old Party. Division and misinformation (ie lies) have been effective tools......but that too is coming to an end. Gotta make you proud, right, des? Now what was that about intellectual dishonesty? Tut, tut. You should know better.

prg45fan

You're saying the media is a victim of what, Orange. Man Bad.? …dictated to by the fringe-element of one political party... You are kidding right? Most of the media is owned by the left. I'm surprised you didn't know that. Then again you are one of the lap dogs fawning all over the leftist media that dictates watch you hear, see, and read. But evidently you're ok with it as long as it's the Dem. party that is guilty of it. Understanding reality is the key to dismissing your insinuation wholesale. Have a MAGA day MM.

MRS M

You too have inexplicably missed my point, or perhaps your in denial. Let me be more specific. Fox State TV, and the lyin' liars who lie to the remaining 38%, or in your case, to themselves.

jagman

The liars, as we now have proof, have been the democrat politicians, democrat run media and others carrying their water the last three years.

They have been lying to YOU, M. You don't care because it was all designed to get rid of orange man bad.

MRS M

jagman, you seem to be under the foolish impression that because you repeat the same old lies and Republican talking points.... over and over again.....someone here is going to take you seriously.

prg45fan

And you MM are a "lying dog faced pony soldier". What are you going to do about it? Serious question. Other than VOTE you ain't got nothin'

threecents

The media keeps producing negative stories about Trump because he keeps doing negative things. It is that simple. It is what it is.

jagman

The media keeps producing negative stories about Trump because they are a propaganda arm for the DNC. It is that simple. It is what it is.

threecents

Yes, the real news is used as propaganda against Trump. We agree.

dirtorsoil

What is the point of this entire “opinion piece“? It’s a complete waste of space and time taken to edit it. It’s time to step into 2020 FNP. Stop allowing your “opinion pieces“ to be undeniably biased towards the “greatest generation”. No wonder you have zero credibility as a news outlet. The garbage you publish to fill page space would get a D in a middle school English class. Try harder

jsklinelga

The hypocrisy of the left know no bounds. You could assume that this was about Tara Reade. Or that many on the left feel that DJT should have foreseen this pandemic as he was coming down the escalator in 2015 and acted upon it then.

But the hypocrisy from either side is not helpful. In this section today many are offering their opinions. Some as Dunning Kruger authorities. But the real truth as quoted from a recent scientific journal discussing herd immunity is "But they don’t know for sure." No one does.

Say what you want but I believe we have handled this pandemic in a more positive manner than a failing one. We all wish we could have done more for the elderly and the heart wrenching nursing hone situation. But hospitals were not over run and deaths are tapering off.

The next couple of months are going to be trying. Unless by the Grace of God this pandemic disappears we are going to hit some very rough spots. But unless you can offer the exact scenario of how this will play out or what is the optimum course of action forward i wish everyone would admit, we just do not know.! And let us try to do our collective best with a touch of humility.

MRS M

It's actually the idiocy of the desperate deplorables which "knows no bounds". Over 81,000 Americans have succumbed to Covid19 in the last 9 weeks, and Jerry Ryan wants to talk about Hilary. This is while Trump and his administration are losing their own fight for life in the White House...due to unending displays of extraordinary ignorance, arrogance, and hubris....and yes....still no masks.

des21

The woke scold has awoken. We tremble collectively...... really, we do![beam]

MRS M

When all else fails amidst tragedy and incompetence........ descending into juvenile quips seems irrelevant, doesn't it? One has to wonder.....why?

jagman

Hey MrsM. It's time to feed the cats.

MRS M

Like I said. Irrelevant. Juvenile. Sadly, stupid. Proof positive of how little Trump needed to do to reach his supporters......sad.

jagman

OK, Karen.

bob21771

"Although I don’t always agree with what our president says, he’s doing his best to curtail the virus and get our economy going."

He (Trump) is doing his best. Exactly the point. You can't set the bar any lower than to cite Trump's "best". The man is simply incompetent. Everything he touches seems to turn to [fecal matter].

gilly313

[thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

TINAE

He gets a "D" and that's being nice. November can't come soon enough.

phydeaux994

Donald John Trump wanted to do NOTHING from the very beginning, he wanted to “let ‘er rip” until the mythical “herd immunity” was achieved, just like Boris in the U.K. started out and how Sweden is continuing to go with. But like Boris, when the numbers started to explode he was pressured, on March 13, to follow the Medically Approved Route, and declared a National Emergency. However, we were already 6 weeks+ behind by that point and he was getting blasted with blame. So now he knows he can’t win re-election unless the Economy recovers so in desperation he is back to “let ‘er rip”, open up the Economy and HOPE it recovers to the point it will SAVE his re-election. He doesn’t and never has cared how many have to die to keep him “THE MOST POWERFUL MAN IN THE WORLD”. If by some miracle the Economy returns to “Trump Normal” and his re-election looks possible, he will hang around. If not, by September or so, he will resign, to avoid the “AGONY AND SHAME AND HUMILIATION OF DEFEAT”. Just my Opinion, blast away. 🤓

gabrielshorn2013

Mythical herd immunity phy? No myth about the concept. You should crack a textbook on epidemiology and read up. I'd recommend Gordis Epidemiology. You can also look it up online. The concept is not difficult to understand.

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/index.php/content/herd-immunity-0

https://www.cdc.gov/training/QuickLearns/epimode/

http://sphweb.bumc.bu.edu/otlt/MPH-Modules/EP/EP713_DescriptiveEpi/EP713_DescriptiveEpi3.html

hayduke2

But gabe, can you argue the fact that Sweden has a much higher death toll than a country, the US, with significantly higher population? That fact, given the health care system they have, should cause you worry.

gabrielshorn2013

Not at all hay. As I said, the area under the epidemic curve contains the population of susceptible individuals. A snapshot in time to compare countries is meaningless. If you flatten the curve, you are just slowing the rate of transmission, but the same number will eventually get infected, regardless of model. If you slow the transmission rate (R0) to less than 1, the virus will burn out on itself, but that can mean quarantine for over a year to accomplish, and is meaningless if the rest of the world doesn't follow. Sweden understood these facts, and decided to make the hard choice. Since the same number of people would eventually get sick regardless of chosen strategy, and a portion of them die without a vaccine (no guarantee there), they chose to shield their elderly, and allow the disease to run its course. Sweden will effectively be done with the virus, since their susceptible have been infected, while the rest of the world limps along. Time will tell what the best option was.

Jleftwich

Herd immunity seems to be getting traction. But, at what cost to one's health? Is the term "recovered" defined as simply survived the disease? Is it correct to assume that while one may recover, they may be disabled or severely limited for the rest of their life?

gabrielshorn2013

Herd immunity, other than through vaccination, is merely surviving an infection and developing protective antibodies against that disease so you don't contract it again. Once the majority of a population becomes immune, it makes a torturous path for disease transmission to infect a susceptible individual. That susceptible individual is still susceptible to the disease, but it is less likely that it will be transmitted to them through the immunity of others. It is just a reduced probability of infection. A smallpox infection provided protective antibodies, and you could not be reinforced. However, there was a very good chance that you could get seriously disfigured by pocmarks.

hayduke2

But Gabe, there is currently no consensus that you are immune to a second exposure. So the whole herd thing is unproven, no?

gabrielshorn2013

I have already said that was a possibility in several previous threads hay. However, there is currently no evidence that anyone has been reinfected after recovery either, after millions of infections. If that is a fact despite opportunities for reinfection, then there are antibodies preventing reinfection. If the body produces lasting antibodies, then herd immunity is possible. If lasting antibodies are not produced, then the tests for antibodies as a condition of returning to work is pointless, because leaving the house forever after becomes a risky proposition, because no matter what you do, someday you will become reinfected. Couple that to the fact that there is no guarantee that a safe and effective vaccine can be developed, then we would be looking at a continuous cycle of reinfection and death. What does that tell you, because the world economy will crater, and we would essentially be back to 1346.

gary4books

Herd Immunity? Wikipedia writes: "Herd immunity (also called herd effect, community immunity, population immunity, or social immunity) is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that occurs when a large percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through previous infections or vaccination, thereby providing a measure of protection for individuals who are not immune.[1][2] In a population in which a large proportion of individuals possess immunity, such people being unlikely to contribute to disease transmission, chains of infection are more likely to be disrupted, which either stops or slows the spread of disease.[3] The greater the proportion of immune individuals in a community, the smaller the probability that non-immune individuals will come into contact with an infectious individual, helping to shield non-immune individuals from infection.[1]

Individuals can become immune by recovering from an earlier infection or through vaccination."

gary4books

"Mass vaccination to induce herd immunity has since become common and proved successful in preventing the spread of many infectious diseases.[9] Opposition to vaccination has posed a challenge to herd immunity, allowing preventable diseases to persist in or return to communities that have inadequate vaccination rates."

des21

A lot of talk about herd immunity since I brought up herd immunity. What have you guys been talking about for the past 2 months during my hiatus. Other than about 6 (Gabriel, veritas, Brent, sometime Public- okay, 4) of you who have interesting and original opinions i know it's been choir practice. Do you all live alone? The community center must have some activities for the idle retired, they should be re-opened next week- go. Wait, you're all Democrats. You'll be self-quarantining until July of 2021 as long as the government keeps sending you checks.

threecents

We were talking about how nice it was not to see your childish posts.

xJacky1

At this point your posts have become nothing more than the ‘Russian’ troll posts.

phydeaux994

When are you going to give us your list of reasons you LOVE Donald John Trump?Then I can stop trolling and we can have a civil debate. Whenever you are ready xJacky1, I’ll be here. Since 2008.

awteam2000

I agree with xJacky1 many of the tweets have become nothing more than the ‘Russian’ troll posts. Useless political slants. Adding nothing of value to the conversation but divisiveness. Hillary, Obama, Pelosi, the intelligence community , especially the FBI, the courts are Trump’s enemies. Biden Is the ‘disgusting human being’ not like Trump. And now life-time Republicans organizations like “The Lincoln Project” and the “ For the Rule of Law” are running ads in opposition to Trump. Not the ”the usual suspects.” Republican groups running commercial in opposition to Trump? So sad, they all hate Trump. That’s not fair.

phydeaux994

Do we have Herd Immunity to Swine flu? Measles? Yes. Even with a vaccine. Can you still get these diseases? Yes. Hence, mythical Immunity. Herd Immunity doesn’t make you immune to anything. I have missed your lessons gab. Peace.

gabrielshorn2013

Yes you did phy. You still don't understand herd immunity. Do some reading and get back to me.

phydeaux994

Why do you care whether I understand herd immunity or not gab?? Is that important to you? Sheesh???

gabrielshorn2013

No phy, I couldn't care less what you believe. You clearly don't (won't?) understand.

phydeaux994

As usual, you choose to respond on some meaningless thing in comments instead of addressing the meat of the comment. I chose to call herd immunity “mythical” because it describes NO IMMUNITY at all. There are three types of Immunity and “herd” ain’t one of them. Look it up. But what about the rest of the comment?

gabrielshorn2013

Phy, you shut communication off by your comment. Since you wish to continue the conversation after all, I will respond...this time. Herd immunity doesn't mean that you still are not susceptible to the disease, because you still are. You would have known that if you bothered to look it up, but you didn't, and here you are...again. Here it is...again, in a nutshell. As more and more people contract the virus and recover, they will have antibodies protecting them from reinfection. As the more and more of the susceptible population recovers, transmission rates slow, plateau, and then decline. Now, here is where herd immunity comes in, so pay attention. As I said, the number of recovered, and now immune population increases, the viral spread is slowed. There are still susceptible people who could contract the disease, but because others around them are immune, and won't get infected and pass along the virus, the probability of them becoming infected is greatly reduced. Nowhere did I, or anyone else, say that any individual couldn't get infected. That is how vaccine programs work. The vaccine doesn't "take", or cause the development of antibodies in everyone, conferring immunity to everyone. Because those who the vaccine didn't "take" are surrounded by those who are immune, the probability of them contracting the disease is reduced. Got it this time? If not, here are some references:

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/achieving-herd-immunity-with-covid19.html

https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/work/protection

https://apic.org/monthly_alerts/herd-immunity/

https://www.cdc.gov/training/QuickLearns/epimode/

As for the rest of your initial comment, it is just another one of your "orange man bad" rants, and I chose to not be drawn in, thanks. As I have repeatedly told you (and this seems to be a pattern with you), I grew up in the greater NYC area, and knew about DJT since the '80s when a friend worked for him. I didn't vote for him, or the other candidate., nor do I support him.

Dwasserba

"I can, with much certainty, tell you Hillary and her ilk wouldn’t be doing anything better." Good point. Let's ask her. Ask her ilk. Who is her ilk?

DickD

Gabe, when you say you grew up in the NYC area, was that Long Island?

gabrielshorn2013

Central NJ.

Jim Hartley

Says a lot that Mr. Ryan had to resort to Russia and Ukraine and Hillary. Hello, Mr. Ryan? We're out here suffering from a virus that can't be bullied or fired. Our poor toddler president's penchant for denigrating educated, experienced professionals is now causing thousands of unnecessary deaths. Those professionals told us months ago what it would take to open up the economy, but their advice was inconveniently at odds with the everyday chaos that Trump prefers. You wanted disruption, now you have it. And it's all because of Hillary.

d1234

Okay, Boomer!

xJacky1

Imaginative, oh my.

stjohn42

The hypocrisy of the right is in decrying the hypocrisy of the left using old movie lines. The writer's argument is based upon 1) assuming the truth of Trump statements that are proven false and 2) their personal fantasies about what Hillary "would have done", according to what they heard on Faux News.

thump1202

Fauci and Birx have been in their positions across many presidents, so the expert advice would have been the same. Given the initial response of "Racist! Xenophobe!" for the early travel bans, that time period wouldn't have likely been any sooner. The medical equipment that was such a big deal went largely unused. I don't see what she could have done to get more testing supplies. I guess my point is, many of the variables at play are the same whoever is in office, that's why I really can't admonish Trump for anything but his idiotic tweets and absurd press conferences, those two things predated the virus and show no sign of ceasing. One thing I miss from the Obama days is being able to go a month without hearing anything about him.

gabrielshorn2013

Agreed thump. The DJT sideshow aside, nothing would be any different, since, as you said, all of the players in the various Federal agencies have been there under many Administrations. Lets not forget however, the cache of PPE that was drained from the National Strategic Stockpile in 2009, and not replaced, therefore unavailable for use now. That exacerbated the PPE situation early on. The USNS Comfort sailed into NY harbor, treated a few patients (nowhere close to capacity), then sailed out.

Jleftwich

The USNS Comfort wasn't meant to treat infectious disease, no? It was sent to NYC for show.

To the point of no other POTUS could have done different: who knows. The PPE stockpile notwithstanding, I'd like to think someone else would have reacted sooner (i.e., early January) with stepped up efforts.

Though, the U.S. is fond of being reactionary. It's hard to sell someone (especially politicians) on something that has any degree of uncertainty.

gabrielshorn2013

jleftwich, from what I know about the USNS Comfort's mission, it was sent to NYC because it was projected that there wasn't enough hospital capacity to absorb the projected number of COVID-19 patients. Comfort's doctors treated 182 COVID-19 patients in their 1000 bed floating hospital in 3.5 weeks. Far from the initial projections, so they were sent back to their home port of Norfolk VA. As for a faster reaction, folks always want bigger, better, faster, and more without understanding how to get there. Nobody keeps inventories of material stockpiled somewhere anymore for cost and material expiration reasons. That was to be the role of the Strategic National Stockpile for health emergencies. If the stockpile of PPE had been replaced after it was drawn down in 2009, there would not have been a PPE shortage with this crisis. Since companies do not maintain a high level of inventory of their goods (partially due to tax disincentives) there was nothing to draw on from manufacturers inventories. Companies now operate on Just In Time (JIT) principles, meaning that they only manufacture enough product to be sold within a short amount of time. Again, no inventories of finished goods or raw materials. They also strive for maximum utilization of their manufacturing equipment. They do not keep idle equipment hanging around the manufacturing floor, and what they do keep is running at around 80-90% of capacity. These same principles apply to raw material suppliers. So, coupling all of that together, simply demanding that manufacturers "make more immediately" is naive. There is only so much extra capacity in existing machinery, and only so much raw material available to put into the process. Even if there was an immediate and never-ending supply of raw materials, you still need the machine capacity. Such machines take over a year from the time they are ordered until they are delivered, because they are manufactured on an as-needed, per order basis. After which they must be installed, put through shakedown runs, then validated before any commercial product is manufactured on them and put on the market. Adding additional manufacturers for a product doesn't help, especially if they don't have the raw materials and machinery, because they will still need to acquire all of that before they can start. Couple all of that with a wholesale outsourcing of our manufacturing sector, and we now get foreign trade issues involved.

https://news.usni.org/2020/04/27/hospital-ship-comfort-ends-nyc-covid-19-mission-after-treating-182-patients.

jsklinelga

thump1202

The press conferences got weary but then again you cannot totally blame the President totally. He faced a never ending barrage of nonsense such as phydeauz's post or Nailk's column. But there has been a silver lining. We have actually gone a couple months without hearing Adam Schiff's daily rants.

Obadiah Plainsmen

Jerry Ryan,

I don't want to rain on your opinion, but the way I see it is that in America you have 330 million hypocrites. It's the do as I say, not as I do virus. Far more deadlier than covid19 . It has been manifesting for 243 years on Capitol Hill, in the WH, Governors mansions, state legislatives, Mayors offices and County Councils, Court rooms & Jury boxes, ballot boxes. However in 2016 it exposed itself and exploded into everyday America society.

Why today with covid19 the Governors of States with the highest cases of and death from covid19 are the most popular, while Governors of States with the lowest statistics are unpopular?

Why in the opinion of those who believe that human population is the driving force and doomsday scenario of climate change are shocked and outraged at the amount of deaths worldwide?

After two months of worldwide lockdown some data concerning CO2 shows that a decrease in emissions into the atmosphere. Why should the World return to normal if it means we go back to killing our planet?

Why is the political party who is proud of 63 million aborted babies and whose sole purpose is to keep abortion legal, worried about dying from covid19?

How does a Christian justify their vote for President Trump?

You see America is just a big melting pot of hypocrites.

tonyc51

[thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

awteam2000

What? OP, are you keeping track of the # of comments by individuals, today? You are going to force me to be at the top of the list.

bosco

Awt, some people definitely need to get out of the house more.[lol][ninja]

Jleftwich

What do you mean? Aw typed all that out while floating in his pool sipping on a Mai Tai / Bleach mixer and soaking up the UV rays in an all-out effort to ward off the virus. [wink][cool]

DickD

Not all Republicans are the same. There's a group of NeverTrump Republicans forming right now.

tonyc51

Just like all democrats are not the same (maybe the politicians) not all the people who identify as democrat think the same way.

des21

Wake up Dick, they've been around since before the '16 election. I was one of them. Now I'm a "Never Socialism" Republican.[beam]

DickD

Bernie was a Socialist, Biden isn't. I was called a Republican by Davey, remember him? All because I vote for the best person. You really have to reach to think Trump is the best. I thought George W. was as bad as you can get. Trump proved me wrong.

elymus43

At least Thrump is not staying his basement.........

sevenstones1000

It would be much better for everyone if he was

DickD

[thumbup][thumbup]

awteam2000

Everyone around Trump is being tested everyday. Might he be fearing something?

xJacky1

I couldn’t agree more. Mr. Naik and his kind can’t see that the wheels have fallen of their cart, but they are still trying to push the cart.

Moon otter

actually you don't have a cart nor wheels. soon to be pushing up daisies.

xJacky1

Wow!!!! I have been threatened by death. Keep it classy democrats!!

hayduke2

snowflake..

Moon otter

it will be by a virus, if you don't stay home and wear a mask when you go grocery shopping. every time you go out not only do you put yourself at risk but others too. think asymptomatic not you but someone else.

Moon otter

also I liked the one about a person down south on the beaches dressed up like the grim reaper.

bosco

Moon otter, where in the governor's orders does it say that one needs to stay at home all the time? We have been able to go out for exercise and supplies during the whole lockdown and since last week we can now go to the beach, golf, go fishing, go camping, and the state parks are open. If you want to stay indoors, fine, but don't try to mandate that on the rest of us.

Moon otter

bosco it's your property, I assume you have a porch or a yard and if you do go out of your property to the store, wear a mask. Currently some things have been lifted, but those who are golfing, apparently are not social distancing. I do go hiking since I live near the Appalachian Trail and I am a maintainer of a section and shelters but is not allowed to do work because of our organizations have said no more volunteer work. Insurance issues because of COVID 19. My section is in PA. Michaux State Forest. I did do 11.3 miles last week with a friend of mine and we saw a total of eight folks between the AT and Raccoon Run Trail. Guess what we did social distancing when we met the other hikers. I e got off trail so one can past safely. Anyways stay safe.

hayduke2

Moon - is your section anywhere near Tom's Run or Sunset Rocks Trail - one of my favorite areas along the trail

StupidPaywall

[thumbup][thumbup]

tonyc51

There is more than enough criticism to be given to both sides of this conversation. Could Trump have done more, maybe. Could the democrats have allowed more attention to be paid to the issue early instead of chasing the impeachment craze, probably. Does Trump sometime speak more positively than the situational facts, yes. Do the mainstream media (and democrats) twist everything that Trump says to make it seem worse than it is, absolutely. Would the situation be, or have been handled any more effectively if there had been a democrat in the presidency, maybe but possibly not as well. Is Trump trying to restart the economy to kill more people and help the billionaires, not likely. Are democrats trying to keep the economy closed to further their 2020 election prospect or to protect the health of people, probably both. Is more damage being done to the well being of the American population by continuing to have the economy shut, than reopening with the possible effects on some people? There are experts that will answer either way. BOTTOM LINE: America should stop all the back biting and stabbing, fault finding, politicalization, what iffing etc. and pitch in to find the solution to what is a very large problem affecting everyone, please.

DickD

I don't agree with all of your logic, but when all is said and done we need to get back to being one nation under God and that will never happen with a divisive POTUS like Trump.

gabrielshorn2013

I'd prefer E Pluribus Unum instead Dick.

public-tertiary

[thumbup]

Besides, I’ve never understood why the “one nation under God” folk are so quick to throw God under the bus for the divisions in our society.

DickD

No argument there, Gabe.

tonyc51

Just common sense Dick, nothing more. You don't have to agree with everything that a person does to understand and support the fact that we all need to pull in the same direction if we want this to be dealt with effectively.

awteam2000

Now, if we can get the present administration on that page. He does hold the “ Bully Pulpit“. It may be too late to win reelection, but it could save lives.

Jleftwich

Quote from TonyC: "...support the fact that we all need to pull in the same direction if we want this to be dealt with effectively."

If only we had an effective helmsman.

DickD

Tony

Do you think that will ever happen with Trump our POTUS?

Dwasserba

At first he was more relevant than Hillary (she lost) but...not anymore. Yet it's "Trump this, Hillary that" even now. Except it's not.

Moon otter

no region period it is divisive as ever and has caused more wars than anything else. how about humanity, we are neighbors.

bosco

Tonyc51....[thumbup]

gabrielshorn2013

Agreed tony. [thumbup]

hayduke2

And yet your response is subtley reflective of the last sentence... Hypocritical at best.

trafficwoes

Here, here! Let’s all identify as Americans.

Butter side up or butter side down?

Who cares. It gets us no closer to a solution

DeplorableLocalVeteran

Trump’s weak, feeble and reckless response to Covid-19 isn’t his fault, his supporters set him up by putting him in the WH in a job way over his head. It’s like putting an affirmative action hire in charge of a law enforcement agency it will provide good optics but lousy results.

Dwasserba

Ys. A publicity stunt to enhance his tv show contract terms gone bad.

Greg F

You want to see hypocrisy...crying out trump is so innocent in his actions with the virus...when in reality, this is just one of his major bumbles as he wants to open the country to benefit his holdings: Headline - In the early days of the pandemic, the US government turned down an offer to manufacture millions of N95 masks in America - Story: https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2020/05/09/early-days-pandemic-government-turned-down-offer-manufacture-millions-masks-america/yfzZ8B1eyRuNUSSLPfxJyO/story.html

olefool

Mr. Ryan: If Hillary were our president we wouldn't have this mess, of that I am certain, and so you should be also. You cannot compare apples to prunes and expect equivalencies, Trump could never match Hillary's intelligence and competence, nobody with half a brain cell working would challenge that statement. But alas, you probably will try. Just know that you can't fix stupid, unless it's your own.

gabrielshorn2013

olefool, what are you basing that statement on, and what would have been done differently? What effects would that have on ultimate viral progression and mortality?

hayduke2

Don't know the answer totally but I can say that science and the evidence scientists advise would be listened to. I also know that the panel of experts would be front and center and the so called press conferences would do much more to unite than try to obfuscate the actual truth.

gabrielshorn2013

That may be true hay, but aside from the Trump sideshow, there would be no effect on disease transmission. It will progress (with a large number of deaths) until herd immunity takes over when around 60-70% of the population gets infected, or a vaccine is (hopefully) developed. SARS-CoV-2 knows no party, nor has an allegiance to one.

olefool

If you need to ask this question you are not in touch with reality... how about you defining the difference between apples and prunes... there you will find the answer to your query.

gabrielshorn2013

Olefool, you evade the question. You referred to “this mess”. What would any other person have done to stop progression of this virus? The virus will do what it will do, and continue to infect people until herd immunity is achieved at an approximate 60-70% infection rate, with the concomitant death rate. Toe only hope is that an effective vaccine is developed, but there is no guarantee that it will happen.

As for your silly question about the difference between apples and prunes:

An apple is an edible fruit produced by an apple tree (Malus domestica). Apple trees are cultivated worldwide and are the most widely grown species in the genus Malus. The tree originated in Central Asia, where its wild ancestor, Malus sieversii, is still found today. Apples have been grown for thousands of years in Asia and Europe and were brought to North America by European colonists. Apples have religious and mythological significance in many cultures, including Norse, Greek and European Christian tradition.

Apple trees are large if grown from seed. Generally, apple cultivars are propagated by grafting onto rootstocks, which control the size of the resulting tree. There are more than 7,500 known cultivars of apples, resulting in a range of desired characteristics. Different cultivars are bred for various tastes and use, including cooking, eating raw and cider production. Trees and fruit are prone to a number of fungal, bacterial and pest problems, which can be controlled by a number of organic and non-organic means. In 2010, the fruit's genome was sequenced as part of research on disease control and selective breeding in apple production. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple

A prune is a dried plum of any cultivar, mostly the European plum (Prunus domestica). Use of the term "prune" for fresh plums is obsolete except when applied to varieties (of plum) grown for drying.[1]

Most prunes are freestone cultivars (the pit is easy to remove), whereas most plums grown for fresh consumption are clingstone (the pit is more difficult to remove).

Prunes are 64% carbohydrates including dietary fiber, 2% protein, a rich source of vitamin K, and a moderate source of B vitamins and dietary minerals. The sorbitol content of dietary fiber likely provides the laxative effect associated with consuming prunes. Contrary to the name, boiled plums or prunes are not used to make sugar plums. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prune

I hope this helped.

Moon otter

They both give you vitamin C, but prunes make you more well regulated if you know what I mean. Eat more prunes and you can't spew all this crap.

gabrielshorn2013

What do you mean moon?

awteam2000

Hypothetically speaking if you gave both Trump and Hillary the Mensa IQ test who do you think would score highest? Hillary or the “Stable Genius”?

FYI, you mean affect not effect.

Dwasserba

No he doesn't. "Effect" is a noun. "Affect" is a verb. Re read it.

awteam2000

Deb, “ What effects would that have on ultimate viral progression and mortality?” Shouldn’t that be “Affect” (verb) means to produce a change or influence something? Right?

awteam2000

My “bad” you’re right. Thanks for correcting me.

Dwasserba

And who is the apple, who's the prune? Women of a certain age want to know...

Jleftwich

Not stop the spread, but blunt it. We knew it was coming, we were warned, we certainly had some runway.

TwoDawgs56

Really, what specifically would the genius Hillary have done? Rolled out the welcome wagon from Wuhan? I know, she would have blamed the virus on a “hate-filled” Youtube video. How in the hell could she protect a nation of 330+ million, when her State Department couldn’t even defend a small contingency in Benghazi? Just like the pound MeToo movement, hypocrisy knows no bounds.

olefool

C'mon dawg, Benghazi has been proven to be a republican political hoax. They said so themselves on national tv. That alone renders the rest of your comment "bizarre "...

TwoDawgs56

Hoax....tell that to the families of Amb Christopher Stevens and the three members of the security detail. Besides who proved the hoax, the Dems and their propaganda arm in the media? In fact the real hoax is Trump-Russian collusion. Since Grinnell released the so-called classified transcripts, the Dems knew this was a hoax from the get-go yet they lied to the media. That’s why the media can’t be trusted. Now documents show O knew and possibly directed this plot to spy on DJT . Could make W/G look like a sweet 16 party.

hayduke2

Two dawgs - once you buy into that all media is corrupt and can't be trusted, you further the conspiracy nuts and those who would be tyrants. Sure, it is sometimes overhyped and "in your face" but there are many sources that can be trusted. Use your abilities to look at multiple sources, foreign reporting from allies, etc. and form your own opinion. Bengahzi was tragic but it is not some grand political cover-up.

thump1202

Mainstream news outlets issue retractions at an unheard of rate. It's simply foolish to believe anything they say until a couple days have passed. Unfortunately, by this time most people have been fed misinformation and have accepted the unverified lies they rush to be the first ones to tell. You are more informed by avoiding these outlets and especially social media than by engaging with them.

prg45fan

Life is hard, It's even harder when you're stupid. You must be living an extremely hard life fool.

Reader1954

here is a idea people. For at least a week switch from which ever news channel you watch to the one you don't watch. You will be amazed at the difference between the take on any given story.

Piedmontgardener

Or turn it off entirely and read. I have a subscription to five major papers to sift and figure out what is "real" news.

tonyc51

And probably have a more realistic view of what is really happening.

Greg F

Some of us get our news from multiple sources including overseas and not from just one leaning ideology or a news channel that is not even considered anything more than "entertainment" in other places. Some of us also don't feel the media is the enemy of the state.

prg45fan

Multiple sources? You mean like reliable sources that you can count on? SNARK!

jagman

I think by "multiple sources", FU means cnn, msnbc, wapo, nyt, lat. Throw in the dailykos and the huff&puff and he has it all under control.

DickD

Amazed? How about disgusted?

Piedmontgardener

People who don't hard identify with party read letters like this and think to ourselves when will you turn off Rush Limbaugh or Hannity or Ingraham? When you lead with "the left" or other related dogma, you look like an idiot.

Comment deleted.
Piedmontgardener

Reading your comments regularly, it seems that ad hominem is your major contribution.

prg45fan

Pee, reading yours it is obvious that all of your comments will end and begin, for that matter with boohoohoo. Hillary isn't my President. You poor thing.

hayduke2

Tribalism at its best.

olefool

[thumbup]

Comment deleted.
Dwasserba

It was a valid point that might have been useful when writing in the future.

Greg F

It is amazing to me that people are overlooking why trumpidydump wants to re-open. It's simple. He did not give up interests in hotels, resorts, casinos, golf courses and more that he will directly benefit from if he reopens early. Conflict of interest is his game and the entirety of the right wingers are ignoring that fact. It is not subject to doubt...he owns them, he benefits. He refused to give up any interest or conflicts. Duh.

prg45fan

Here is something even more simple for you FU since you are of a simpleton mindset. Trump is STILL your President. Simple huh?

hayduke2

prg - the fact that he is still the President might just be the issue. Simple, huh.

olefool

Prg: And in light of all his malfeasence, lies and crimes you still think he's qualified and will vote for him again despite the fact that he has rendered us a third, no irrelevant, world country.. you probably don't wear a mask outside forsaking all others do you?

fnpzwack

These communists will stop at nothing to ensure that others are forced to take care of them. That’s how little confidence they have in themselves and their own kind. They no longer want a safety net. Now they want to be carried through daily life.

Greg F

Wow....communists, eh? What guy befriends communist dictators in Russia and North Korea...your guy Trump. Go back to your dwelling under your bridge.

Greg F

Don't also forget the Biden story on Ukraine has been even more thoroughly debunked that your claim of innocence. Trump got off because he had a usurped justice by disallowing witnesses and refusing to provide documents that were called for by subpoena. Wait until he's out...and then he won't be protected by his claim he is immune while in office.

prg45fan

What guy (still unsure) bows down to foreign leaders on an apology tour when he's the POTUS? Answer: Obama.

awteam2000

US coronavirus deaths:

10 wks ago: 2 deaths

9 wks ago: 21 deaths

8 wks ago: 65 deaths

7 wks ago: 413 deaths

6 wks ago: 2,425 deaths

5 wks ago: 9,643 deaths

4 wks ago: 22,079 deaths

3 wks ago: 40,677 deaths

2 wks ago: 54,881 deaths

1 wk ago: 67,682 deaths

Right now: 79,525 deaths

By next Friday: 100,000 deaths

Didn’t someone say “ there’s only 15 cases and will soon be down to none” 😔

prg45fan

So, your saying it's okay to die of anything in large numbers other than the kung flu because Trump is what...normalizing death? Wait, I forgot Orange. Man Bad.

threecents

[offtopic]

jsklinelga

Mr. Ryan,

The column was considered by most, rubbish. Even the more reserved folks who comment labelled it as such. He appealed to a certain audience. An audience that is part of the FNP customer base.

Giving credit for some ""critical thinking" most would have to acknowledge the hypocrisy in which the Tara Reade allegations were handled by the MSM and DNC. Especially in comparison to how Ms. Ford's allegations were handled.

But unfortunately people like Mr. Naik are so blinded by hate they lose all sense of critical thought on other matters. Consider one of the first comments by fjulia:

"Trump was not cleared of anything in the 2016 election. Rather there was not enough evidence to move forward on collusion/" Where is the logic in that?

DickD

Trump should have testified at his Impeachment. That would have told us more. Jim

prg45fan

There should not have been a sham impeachment on fake evidence that is turning around to look like it may result in trials for numerous members of the Obama administration. Will your messiah testify at his trial for treason? One can only hope.

marinick1

jsklinelga: [thumbup][thumbup]

DickD

There you go with Trump's cult charge of hate. If you don't agree with Trump you must hate Trump. What stupid logic.

Dwasserba

Some can't muster up more than aa strong nostalgia for perceived competence. All Presidents must put their pants on one leg at a time. Pants were assumed. How foolish we feel now.

jagman

And yet, dick, you have repeatedly displayed hatred for Trump and Trump supporters for the last several years.

Even now, with all the evidence released, you still believe the Russia hoax, don't you?

hayduke2

jag - exactly what is the Russia hoax your are referring to? Is it this one https://news.yahoo.com/bipartisan-senate-report-says-2017-145850378.html

jagman

Come on hay. that article is fake news. It was debunked by the release of documents last week in the Flynn entrapment case and the shifty-shiff secret double probation basement hearings. Yes, the Russia collusion story was a hoax. Everyone involved lied to you. They admitted it in their sworn testimony.

You need to keep up.

hayduke2

You need to get control. Calling it Fake News shows you are out of touch. As far as the Flynn fiasco, a political move by Barr as the behest of the president. Try this source and you can see the redacted Senate report - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/bipartisan-senate-report-says-2017-intel-assessment-about-russian-interference-n1188696 Your credibility and any sense of objectivity is gone jag....

jagman

Again hay, you're using an outdated article. In this story April 21st is light-years gone.

The release of the Flynn FBI documents and the shiff-show testimony late last week debunked your article. And Burr? He's wrapped up in this as well.

Don't forget the date: January 5th, 2017. Make a sticky note and put it on your fridge.

It's coming.

jagman

Here you go, hay. Another interesting tidbit:

https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/newly-declassified-evidence-undercuts-former-dni-james

Bit by bit, the proof will emerge.

hayduke2

Conspiracy theory - Obama directed the case against Flynn.. Sure jag, I'll wait for this.

jagman

January 5th, 2017

hayduke2

Sure jag, sure...Let's see if Lindsey can get more traction than Trey did with the Behngahzi fiasco. All because they decided to " go by the book" on a sensitive investigation - Really?? https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/11/senate-republicans-trump-obamagate-249734 covers it well and lets the Republicans opinions come thru...

jagman

Your link doesn't work but since it is politico it most likely was another "get out in front" fake article like you other two.

By the by...the satchel Ric Grenell delivered was the unclassified "unmaskers" in the Obama administration. Yes, the same administration that launched the Russia hoax on January 5th, 2017.

For three years your people lied to YOU and the American people. Democrat politicians, democrat media and even some RINO's lied thru their teeth.

Now that the documentation has been released proving they all knew it was bogus will you admit it as well? Of course not. You and your kind will continue to lie to yourselves.

jagman

here ya go hay dude. The story keeps developing.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/11/looks-like-president-obama-ordered-up-phony-russiagate-scandal/

It's going to be a long ugly road to November. Better stock up on whatever helps you cope.

DickD

It wasn't a hoax!

jagman

Yes it was. read the documents.

Stop living a lie.

fjulia

It seems that you make similar errors to other so-called right wing letter writers. Trump was not cleared of anything in the 2016 election. Rather there was not enough evidence to move forward on collusion (a very nebulous legal term). However, there was enough evidence to move on a coverup but for the guidance (not law) not to indict a president. Additionally, you state that a different president would do certain things, predicting what someone else would do in a certain situation is a fool's errand.

thump1202

In the USA you are innocent until proven guilty. No guilt was established, so Trump remains innocent. Just as Hillary and many other politicians remain innocent however much smoke may be around them.

Greg F

Not entirely true...there was plenty of evidence, yet your Senate run hearings did not allow witnesses or testimony from key people and obstructed in every way possible. There were findings and obstruction...your people chose to ignore it all and sweep it under the rug. Pretty much like those who let OJ go.....we all know he did it and he was eventually convicted in a civil court. Your guy now is really being the worst aspect of some 3rd world dictators...ignoring, hiding, blaming, diverting....pretty close to what we see in Venezuela.

thump1202

Who exactly are "my people?" Are you calling me a Trump supporter just because I believe in the rule of law? What does that say about "your people" if that is the case?

gabrielshorn2013

[thumbup] thump

DickD

You would have been happier and agree if Fed up said Republican Senators?

bosco

I'm looking forward to reading all of the "secret" depositions that Schiff sat on during the house hearings - especially those from witnesses that he would then not allow to testify.

Bill Barr is bringing it all out into the light of day for everyone to see.

olefool

Bosco: Bill Barr????? Surely you jest!!!

hayduke2

Bosco - Bill Barr - the man who is aiding the president's quest to become a true tyrant???

jagman

Hay, remember the date: January 5th, 2017. You will be hearing much more about that date in the coming months.

olefool

"No guilt was established, so Trump remains innocent". False equivalencies; when the perp controls the evidence and testimony and has a prejudiced jury (senate) you cannot infer that he was innocent or "not guilty"... Those verdicts occur in our courts every day. Reminds me of a story elated by an attorney friend; his client was charged with DWI, the lawyer asked him if he was guilty of driving after a long night of drinking to excess and blowing a 2.2 in s breath test, his response, "I don't know, I haven't been to court yet"... Sound familiar????

thump1202

That's how our justice system works, innocent until proven guilty. Does it work every time? Absolutely not, but it's far better than guilty until proven innocent.

Greg F

Yet, thumpy, yet. When Trump's out of office, let the charges fly. He won't be protected by immunity and those findings from the impeachment and hearing are still valid.

olefool

He's not immune now, just protected by a politically invented rule evoked by the justice dept. Once out of office he will be charged and tried on all his criminality unprotected by his cohorts.

DickD

Not innocent, just not guilty because of the Republican Senators.

jagman

Presumption of innocence is a bedrock of our legal system, dick.

Don't act stupid.

DickD

Innocent until found guilty under the law does not mean there isn't plenty of guilt evidence and what the Republican Senators did was a sham.

jagman

What the shiff-show did was a sham, dick old boy.

Innocent unless proven guilty is the law, dick. Not just for your kind.

Everyone.

naturegirl

Mr. Ryan, with all do respect, I suggest using some critical thinking skills and truly evaluate trump's antics during this pandemic. He is a failure as president, a failure at business and most definitely a failure at showing a shred of compassion for his fellow humans. How do you and YOUR ILK measure his success because it cannot be by the 80,000 dead that could have been avoided if trump had gotten off his rotund derriere and opened his squinting eyes to the warnings. How foolish to put so much stock into so small a human. History will prove his corruption and will embarrass his blind followers.

Moon otter

[thumbup][thumbup]

awteam2000

Enough said, Nature girl 👍👍👍👍

thump1202

80,000 deaths attributed to the virus under Trump. How many would there be under a hypothetical President Hillary? Can you state exactly what Hillary would have done to lower the numbers that Trump hasn't?

awteam2000

Among Trump’s failures : Denial and dysfunction, didn’t take virus seriously, didn’t take any action for more then 2 months, ignored the science, his response has been anemic at best. He lacks a plan and depends on his flawed instincts (injecting disinfectants and UV light in dark places). Trump has been a total failure as president. He now demanding everyone is tested around him daily, while telling the public to go back to work without testing. That’s not leadership.

I forgot to mention he lies a lot.

marylandmirage

Right out of the tRump play book: DENY there is a problem and when that doesn’t work, DEFLECT the focus of wrongdoing by using the “Well what about (pick one: Obama, the Clintons, Pelosi, Fake News, etc.).” When that doesn’t work, DESTROY by name calling, insults, and suppressing information he doesn’t agree with. He has never accepted responsibility for anything unless it makes him look good.

“What would Hillary have done?” Would fit the category of “Deflection”.

Greg F

Really? You're throwing up sh** against the wall now with your hypothetical "what-if" scenarios. You may as well say there are troglodites causing the virus...it's as valid as your Hillary proclamation. Laughable...just laughable...if it weren't so sad.

prg45fan

Didn't your ilk throw all kinds of sh** against the wall in an attempt to evict Trump from office. Your ILK failed miserably at that.

thump1202

In other words you can't answer my question. That playbook is every politician and while it's frustrating to see it continues non stop, so it appears to be the only playbook that exists in politics. In all honesty the only politician I saw who reacted well to this situation was Hogan. He listened to his advisors, was firm and decisive, didn't take things too far, and never appeared drunk on power. NY's response was terrible at all levels, I'm not sure what to think of FL's, CA's has been horrible. WHO has flip flopped and played agenda politics with it from the start, now they are praising the Swedish response that was do nothing and build herd immunity.

Dwasserba

Thank you for not saying "ilk."

thump1202

You're welcome. I never liked that term, I find it dehumanizing and would admonish the author for using it.

marylandmirage

Most other politicians at least try to answer a question according to party line (think master sleaze Pence - smooth as an oil slick). Trump is out of his element, does not try, and uses juvenile name calling and the other aforementioned techniques. He is in over his head and knows it. Bottom line: he wants to be the leader, but is incapable of leading. What if has no place in this: what is, is what’s hurting everyone.

gabrielshorn2013

No naturegirl, the infections and subsequent death of a proportion of infected US citizens is unavoidable until herd immunity takes over, or a vaccine is developed. The only way to guarantee that there is no transmission is to declare martial law and have everyone shelter in place, nobody in, no body out (for any reason, not even food shopping) until the disease burns itself out around the world, or an effective vaccine is developed. That is not practical at all. There is no guarantee that a vaccine can be developed either. Anybody that gives it a 100% chance of happening is engaging in wishful thinking. There are many viral diseases where no effective vaccine is available. Think AIDS, Ebola, Dengue, etc. The best we have right now is hope. Currently, we are at a 5-15% infection rate, but it will inevitably get to 60-70% before the virus is put in check due to herd immunity. From yesterday's Meet the Press:

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM:

Well, we have to understand that we're riding this tiger; we are not directing it. This virus is going to do what it's going to do. What we can do is only nibble at the edges. And I think it’s not a good message to send to the public that we can control this virus in a meaningful way. And what I mean by that, even though, as Jeffrey just said, some countries have been able to suppress this somewhat, Korea’s now got a major outbreak problem occurring. Germany's had an increase in cases. What we have to tell people honestly, what they want to hear, they don't want it sugarcoated and they do not want it coated in fear. But somewhere between now and tomorrow, next year, we're going to see 60-70% of Americans ultimately infected with this virus. What we have to do is figure out how not just to die with the virus, but also how to live with it. And we're not having that discussion. As Lewis Carroll once said, "If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there." And right now, that's where we are at. And we can’t give people a false sense of security that we're going to do more than we can, but we also have to figure out how to live with this virus. And that's what we're not doing.

The economy simply cannot be shut down until a vaccine is hopefully found, without irreparable harm to the people and economy. By some estimates e will soon be looking at a 32+% unemployment rate. It may take over a decade to overcome the effects.

Transcript: https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-may-10-2020-n1204016

video: https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/full-disease-experts-60-70-percent-of-americans-will-be-infected-by-virus-83267141543

Moon otter

You need to quit repeating peoples false statements. Currently in Sweden they are now at 322 deaths per million, increases every day. Germany currently is at 90 deaths per million and they are actually going down every day. Germany stayed a head of the curve, just like S Korea. S. Korea spike was because someone decided to visit three nightclubs, ended up infecting multiple people. S. Koreas then shut down again, get ahead of the curve again. Also both countries do quarantining, contact tracing when one is found to be positive. In Germany back in January, they started working on a vaccine soon as they received the genetic mapping of the virus from the WHO which put it out to the world on January 5. This also include testing for the virus. In the middle of April, Germany has already started clinical trials, plus Germany is already starting to go back to work. They continue to test and test which keeps them a head of the curve. Sweden on the other hand is toast. In the US we have no road map, which should have come from the feds which your illustrious leader is to lead but didn't. So we have no road map and everyone in the states is doing their own things which will result in another spike in the virus down the road. Seeing it now in Texas, Florida and Georgia. Your rural areas will be toast because they don't have the medical abilities to handle it. Economy will open in June but we will be doing social distancing, wearing masks and all must wear masks. Stores need to enforce it. Not doing this puts all of us at risk. When summer comes we need to prepare with PPE, the list is endless. for the fall when the virus rears its ugly head again.

gabrielshorn2013

moon, what was false, and what qualifications do you have for proclaiming it so? Are you stating unequivocally that there will be an effective vaccine soon? If so, how do you know that since the results of the clinical trials are not in? There are many viral diseases where we still have no effective vaccines (Zika, EEE/WEE/VEE, Ebola, etc.). Do you deny how herd immunity works? That is exactly what Drs. Osterholm and Shaman discussed on MTP, and what is in line with epidemiology. The number of dead at any one time are really irrelevant because the response curves all meet up once herd immunity is achieved. The number of dead will be the same. The area under the curve (the susceptible population) is the same size. Without a vaccine, you can either use the "rip the band-aid off" and get it over with, or "flatten the curve", which slows but prolongs the amount of time this viral disease hangs around. There are positives and negatives to each approach. Sweden may have more deaths now, but what is their projected economic recovery? They are hurting economically now like everybody else, but their recovery will be faster while we remain on lockdown until we reach herd immunity or the vaccine is developed. The vaccine will take 18 months to be approved by FDA for distribution and administration to humans in the US. You do understand how clinical trials and FDA approval and licensing work, right? Projecting a shutdown for that long means that we would see an unemployment rate of 32+% by some estimates. It is easier to resurrect a business (and rehire employees) that is temporarily shut down, than it is to start a new business from scratch because they went bankrupt and sold off their assets. Do you deny that?

awteam2000

Or containment: practicing social distancing, appropriate PPE, practicing good hygiene along with testing, tracing and quarantining. Like what the White House is NOW doing.

Moon otter

except two. you know who they are unless they have been shackled to their bedrooms

gabrielshorn2013

Yes, aw, we could do all of that, but that will not stop the virus. It will continue percolating along at a slowed rate, and people will still get infected, and a portion of those will die. The distancing practices inside the White House are irrelevant to you or me, so I don't understand what that added to the discussion.

tonyc51

[thumbup] I believe you are correct Gab. Good assessment.

DickD

[thumbup][thumbup]

prg45fan

History will prove that Trump uncovered the biggest nest of vipers to ever be in politics. YOUR ILK screams those hypocritical lies hoping the American people believe them. No, YOUR ILK will lose again in November not only because of the lies but because you and yours promote Socialistic values that have nothing to do with and are incompatible with the Constitution. Get your economy size boxes of tissues ready sweetie the hurt is coming.

awteam2000

I sense a degree of frustration. Your ‘horse’ turned out to be a ‘donkey’ 🙄 .

prg45fan

You and your ILK lost your sense(s) when she lost in 2016 because you all thought it was her turn. None of you can accept that loss. I sense desperation from the left at a very high level in the Democrat party. It's in the air. You can feel it all around you. Take a deep, invigorating breath aw. The desperation is thick enough to cut with a knife. I do love the thrill of victory. Have a MAGA day snowflake.

Dwasserba

Among Dictionary.com's thesaurus 'suggestions to replace "ilk" are: "brand, class, classification, denomination, kin, lot, order, persuasion, set, sort, species, variety."

marylandmirage

Prg45 you seem to think people are upset that Hillary lost. That isn’t it for many - she was merely the less of 2 evils. 3 million more people voted AGAINST 45 than FOR him. And if it hadn’t been for the electoral college (and I strongly suspect help from his good buddy, Vlad), he wouldn’t hold the office for which he appears to be vastly unprepared for.

jagman

Ilk is a much more appropriate word to describe the Institutional Left.

At least for those of us who have observed that movement the last half century.

DickD

Mary, in your comment below, I would add Comey - he had a lot to do with Hillary losing.to the EC.

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