Pat Buchanan was in his familiar role “rabidly” defending Trump’s shadow campaign to boost his 2020 Presidential run.

We had sworn testimony from State Department officials, whose role it is in foreign policy to advance U.S. interests and protect our country from bad foreign actors, that the politically-driven pressure campaign Trump had Giuliani doing for him endangers the security of the U.S.

According to Mr. Buchanan, though, Trump has every right to have Giuliani run a “domestic political errand” (as Fiona Hill so aptly put it) for his personal benefit at the expense of the U.S. and the president’s own foreign policy.

Mr. Buchanan misses the point of how much Trump’s personal shadow campaign has undermined U.S. foreign policy, and is giving credence to the Russian disinformation campaign that continues to disrupt us and keep us divided as a nation. These partisan actions by Trump and his cronies, put U.S. foreign policy in peril and do not support the security of our country.

Members of Congress should be alarmed at this obstructive abuse of power by Trump. Congress will have to decide where to take impeachment.

(54) comments

prg45fan

Dear FNP #neverTrumpers & #hateTrumpers, Please be advised that everything you hear on the fake news channels is in fact propaganda. The POTUS has exposed their lies for all to see. you are all just blinded by your hatred of him for winning the 2016 election. She did lose even though she had help from the Russians or was it the Ukrainians? Or was it both? I can't keep track anymore. Also be advised that the incumbent residing in the White House will remain there for four more years after the 2020 General election. The side that lost in 2016 will indeed lose again. Just a reminder that I'm having a MAGA day while wishing you all a Merry (MAGA) Christmas and a Happy New (MAGA) Year. Cheers!

hayduke2

Nonsense - keep trolling and telling Yourself the lies.

phydeaux994

GOP.....”Quit trying to divide our Party with Facts and Testimony Under Oath, and Direct Evidence. We are the uneducated and deplorable and will never fall for it”. MAWA

threecents

Hunter Biden is irrelevant. Yes, he accepted a position he was not qualified for and should have known better, but there is no indication that Joe acted on that or even knew about it. It has already been investigated - by OUR government. There was testimony on that on the first day of impeachment proceedings.

des21

Who knew liberals would become so dependent on the nanny state to look out for them and their "best interests?" Conservatives.

hayduke2

Nanny state - too funny. The Republican party has become the epitome of the incompetent nanny in their defense of everything Trump. Tariffs - not working but the greatest thing since peanut butter. The tax cut - supporting those weathy donors Infrastructure - oh wait, nothing! Health care - oh wait, dismantling and no plan Control the deficit - expanding at unbelievable rate Protecting air and water - nah, let the environment go to h**l Immigaration reform - no, better to fear monger and do nothing Come on man.

des21

A little too close to the bone Hay? No worries, I get it.

Thewheelone

Well done, Hay!

des21

I think the tariffs are working, the Chinese have stopped cheating and farmers are still strongly in the Trump camp- that must drive you cray huh? The deregulation has led to the incredible economic boom of the past 3 years (are you still crediting Obama? I love that- all his challenges were Bush's fault and all Trump's victories are to his credit- wow!) the crack down on illegals has led to a huge increase in wages for the blue collar your party used to care about. it's all good babe. You all high five your way to another defeat next November. I hear it's going to be extra-terrestrials'' fault this time.[beam]

richardlyons

[lol]

hooknew

I guess you believe the tripe that the Chinese are paying the Farmers indirectly through the collection of the tariffs, which is a lie. Also, I guess all those billions of dollars distributed largely to corporate farms aren't socialism or corporate welfare in the least, are they?

hayduke2

Sure des... Let's not forget the billions in bribe money payed to the farmers. And the economic boom - if you base that on the stock market sure, but that is only 50% of Americans. Economic boom for corporations and gas/oil sure - but that money is not trickling down and that theory is a myth. Blue collar wages are up because Blue states have raised minimum wages, so you buy the myth that DJT is responsible for that. https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/03/wages-are-up-for-low-income-workers-no-thanks-to-donald-trump/ Hope you didn't push this kind of nonsense in your prior career.

threecents

The Chinese have stopped cheating? Awesome. That is disappointing that farmers are still supporting Trump, even though I hear they are very much against the tariffs and how they have been implemented. They do appreciate the bailouts that the govt is giving them, but they would much prefer to make their money by selling their crops, rather than getting govt handouts. I will be looking out for those nasty ETs that are rigging the elections.

thump1202

Authoritarianism is nasty business. Americans should all hate it, but some people want the control. It's sad.

matts853

And who knew conservatives would sell out America to keep a serial liar, corrupt, incompetent, feckless and morally bankrupt president in office to save “their jobs?”

richardlyons

[yawn]

thump1202

Another hyperbolic nonsense article. Mah Russia, Mah blah blah. Trump has done plenty wrong, why all the lies?

Dwasserba

"We had sworn testimony from State Department officials, whose role it is in foreign policy to advance U.S. interests and protect our country from bad foreign actors..." and too many Rs disparage these apolitical people who took oaths to defend *as part of their job.* Family, friends and admirers notice when an esteemed person reaps scorn for doing what is expected of them.

gabrielshorn2013

What the writer does not understand, or conveniently forgets, is that every administration, from Washington onward, had unofficial communication back channels. This did not start just now with Trump. We may not personally like the guy, but this is nothing new.

Alice Jones

Asking a foreign government to publicly announce and then conduct an investigation to dig up dirt on a political opponent in hopes of influencing an election is a little different than say, back channel talks for Paris peace agreement or freeing hostages. Talk about gross oversimplification and ignoring the magnitude of such a treasonous act. Please list other cases where presidents have attempted to influence an election with foreign interference? Sigh.

gabrielshorn2013

That was not my statement sam. I said there have always been unofficial back channel communications. Period. Full stop. Don't read anymore into it. The writer implied that such communication works against foreign policy. It does not. Where did I ever say that I agreed with what Trump did? Clue: I didn't. The notion that foreign governments don't try to influence our elections, or that we don't try to influence theirs is naive. The US has actually helped overthrow duly elected governments that it didn't like. See the Iranian coup-detat in 1953 ousting elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh, and installing the Shah, which led to the ongoing situation in that country. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat).

See also 1973 Chilean coup d'état that ousted the elected government of Salvador Allende, leading to the installation of General Augusto Pinochet and the subsequent "disappearance" of thousands of Chilean citizens who opposed him (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat).

Those are only the most egregious and public. Foreign influence peddling has been going on for a long time. Oh, let's not forget the failed Bay of Pigs invasion.

phydeaux994

Refresh our memories about a few of these unofficial back channel communications by previous Administrations gab, I can’t remember any. Period. Full stop. (what does that mean?) Why do you so rabidly defend this corrupt, sleazy, lying man gab? What he did is obvious to even the simplest of minds. Starting Wednesday, he needs to put his defenders on the stand or ST_U. Peace.✌️

gabrielshorn2013

What does that mean phy? You're kidding, right? It means read what I wrote, and do not go beyond that with other inferences that were not implied. All I said was that back channel communications, both official and unofficial, have existed in statecraft for a long time. Do you deny that? I provided three documented instances where we not only sought to influence foreign elections, but took an active role in reversing them. Do you deny those facts? BTW, there was a movie a few years ago about one of our fellow Frederick Countians and his role in rescuing some of the hostages. Maybe you saw it.

gabrielshorn2013

As for defending the President, where are you getting that? How many times do I have to tell you that I sat out that elect and didn't vote for him, and I think he is a disgraceful human being? This has got to be what, ten times now? I made a statement of fact, and somehow you convoluted that into support for Trump. No, I just dont have Trump Tourette's like many bashers here.

phydeaux994

You defend Trump at every turn gab. Like you did in your 9:46 a.m. comment above with some irrelevant nonsense about “back channel communications” and “well it’s o.k. if foreign Governments meddle in our elections because we meddle in theirs”. I convolute these continuing extensive irrelevant defenses complete with links to prove your irrelevant defense as support for Trump. If you really don’t like him you could condemn the terrible things he does instead of trying to justify them. You bash everybody else, why not Trump...??? Peace.

gabrielshorn2013

Phy, read this.

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/11/21/presidents-have-sometimes-favoured-back-channels-in-foreign-policy

https://www.businessinsider.com/ap-ap-explains-kushners-talks-as-back-channel-diplomacy-2017-5

Memory refreshed?

threecents

[thumbup]Alice. This is definitely something new. Everyone who testified said so.

Thewheelone

Alice Jones says, "gross oversimplification and ignoring the magnitude of such a treasonous act." it is what Trumpeters do and it is how they justify their undying support for the president.

gabrielshorn2013

Sorry phy, I call BS. Who do I ever "bash"? Nobody. I maintain a civil demeanor in this forum despite your claims. Do you deny that the US has interfered with other countries elections? If so, how naive at best, given the information provided. Was that OK with you that our government did so? You don't believe that governments use back channel communications given the links above? Amazing. Even FDR used back channels when dealing with Russia, going around the State Department in the process. The Russian interference in this past election was in the form of Facebook posts, FACEBOOK POSTS! How stupid are people that get their news from such a source. Finally, I don't defend Trump. I just don't have a pathological fixation on all things Trump, with the attendant Trump Tourette's as you seem to. You need to get a hobby...and apparently a life.

Heddwch fyddo i chwi

threecents

How stupid are people that get their news from Facebook posts? Very stupid, and most of them voted for Trump. Facebook posts were not the only tool of the Russian and US election meddlers. Here is an interesting article on the topic. https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR33Bojl8ZLSHmHbIERKqBA_8o-Jo7GY1V1ilDWGG7mwSI0sVHyOPn0nK0I

threecents

Sorry. Most of them voted for "Trump".

gabrielshorn2013

Yes, three they did.

threecents

Anyone to Gabe: "Who's on first?" Gabe: "No, he's on second." Anyone else: "I'm asking about first." Gabe: "You asked about Who." Anyone else: "Who is playing first?" Gabe: "No, second base."

gabrielshorn2013

Three, this was my statement that some have tried to twist nine ways to Sunday:

"...every administration, from Washington onward, had unofficial communication back channels. This did not start just now with Trump. We may not personally like the guy, but this is nothing new."

It's actually quite a simple statement, and I stand by it. Nowhere did I say I supported what the President did, and if you actually read the statement, you will find the words " We may not personally like the guy, but this is nothing new." Notice the word "WE"? Next, some folks didn't believe that back channels are used in statecraft, so I provided examples where it was used. One even said that FDR bypassed the State Dept. when working with Stalin and Russia. I can't help that some seem to have a reading comprehension issue. Are you one of them?

gabrielshorn2013

And to further illustrate the idiocy of those that get their "news" from Facebook:

A Facebook rumor about white vans is spreading fear across America

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/04/tech/facebook-white-vans/index.html

Good grief!

matts853

Not so fast professor Gabe. I'm no spy, but I'm pretty sure the "back channels" as you say usually involve people working for our government with the aim of protecting our national security. What we have here is a befuddled old man (Rudy) running personal errands for Trump and himself with consequences that intentionally and/or unintentionally undermined the integrity of our elections and our national security.

gabrielshorn2013

No argument there matt, and again, that was not my statement. As for the back channels being government employees, no, not always. It's not spycraft either. It is common multi-channel communication. Some official, others not.

thump1202

How did a post election action put our election at risk?

thump1202

And I'm sorry but just like you can't say Trump is a virtuous man it's clear that Hunter Biden is a piece of human trash at this point and daddy was in on it.

DickD

Thump, why do you use words like trash for Hunter? He took a job that he was not qualified for, but so did Trump. And there never has been any proof that his father had anything to do with it.

thump1202

Hunter washed out of the navy for drug addiction. He moved on to engage in shifty business dealings doctored by his father. He is not a productive man, he's an obvious stooge. That's why I call him trash. He never produced anything useful for society.

matts853

You’re right, I can’t say any of those things about Hunter Biden because there’s no evidence to date of any cossuption on his or his dad’s part. Until then, you and the rest of the Trump bots can waste your breath howling at the moon for all I care. Stay with the FACTS!

phydeaux994

How many children, husbands, wives, friends of Trump and his Officials work in the Government now. For example, Rudy’s sons previous experience is as a failed golf pro. Now he works in the White House....but that’s ok, right thumptrump2020...❓

https://www.thedailybeast.com/meet-the-trump-officials-making-government-a-family-business

threecents

I agree with Thump and Dick that Trump and Hunter are trash for accepting jobs they were not qualified for, but Trump obviously is on a much bigger scale. He is like an ocean of trash that we are now swimming through.

DickD

You forgot one thing, Gabe. Guilani was working solely for Trump, not the U.S. and he was going against the stated U.S. policy. Nice try, no cigar.

gabrielshorn2013

That begs the question of"who is the Federal government?" dick. Is it the President and VP? The elected members of Congress? SCOTUS? All the above? ATA, plus all employees of the Executive Branch (State, Commerce, HHS, Military), plus congressional staffers, plus law clerks? Who states official policy? The Executive Branch, or Congress?

Once again, read my original statement. I said nothing of Rudy. I said that back channel communication is nothing new. Read the references cited above.

hayduke2

Sure, but they were to further national policy and not a president's political agenda.

BunnyLou

Nice try, what you saw was a bunch of so called experts whining because they were bypassed by the president. That is ok because he is their boss and they serve at his whim. Get over it, Hillary lost in 2016.

olefool

Get over it yourself funnylou. Trump is president because he used his Russian handlers to cheat our elections and put a Russian mole in the white house, who in turn put several more Russian Moles in offices in order to destroy the USA. And you love him....

Clinton outpaced Trump by almost 2.9 million votes

She lost the Electoral College, however

(CNN)More Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than any other losing presidential candidate in US history.

The Democrat outpaced President-elect Donald Trump by almost 2.9 million votes, with 65,844,954 (48.2%) to his 62,979,879 (46.1%), according to revised and certified final election results from all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

Clinton's 2.1% margin ranks third among defeated candidates, according to statistics from US Elections Atlas. Andrew Jackson won by more than 10% in 1824 but was denied the presidency, which went to John Quincy Adams. In 1876, Samuel Tilden received 3% more votes than Rutherford B. Hayes, who eventually triumphed by one electoral vote.

Alice Jones

You are stuck in the past, loo. You need to get over Hillary. The only ones bringing her up are you and your ilk.

thump1202

The funny thing is that Trump is by all indicators to the left of Hillary, yet the left claims to hate him and everything he does. His foreign policy and domestic policy have been very left overall. He did the tax cuts, but let's face it we all know he wants to help his buddies out, the middle class didn't do too bad either. If the left was smart, they'd be laughing at republicans for electing an obvious liberal. But the left considers liberals to be alt right now in their power grab, so they can't.

hayduke2

thump - talk about putting a spin on the president's actions...

threecents

Thump, Pardon my spit take.

phydeaux994

But the biggest loser in 2016 was and is the United States of America. Just look at this MESS.

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