This letter is in response to a letter entitled, “I’m a Catholic and I’m voting for Biden” which appeared in the October 24-25 edition of the Frederick News-Post. Therein, it is stated that abortion is not the only issue on the ballot, and that it is already a moot issue.

I’m a Catholic and I’m not voting for Joe Biden. I would offer that the right to life is the preeminent issue. In order for a human being to experience or benefit from these “other issues,” they must be allowed to be born into the world.

People who have already been born are deciding if an already conceived unborn child, vulnerable and helpless, should be terminated.

Mike McGowan

New Market

(67) comments

Fiver

I agree with the person who said climate change is the preeminent issue. If there are no pregnant humans because we have gone extinct, abortion is a non-issue. If you care about “life,” you should care about the habitat required to sustain life.

Greg F

One would think they would also care about doctors, what...with trump now attacking them baselessly. https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/31/politics/donald-trump-doctors-midwest-2020-election/index.html

FrederickFan

I recall Mr. McGowan was also a big supporter of Blaine Young, the guy who was involved in the Black Book scandal, convicted of soliciting a prostitute, and who took $1 million in campaign bribes from residential developers.

Now McGowan is supporting a pathological liar, with numerous associates convicted of felonies, bankrupt several times, who paid off a porn star, lied about his taxes, bragged about grabbing women by their genitals, has had more than two dozen women accuse him of sexual assault, friend of the heinous Jeffrey Epstein, who referred to veterans as "losers and suckers," and who criticized the late Sen. John McCain for being captured. Apparently once they are born, it is perfectly OK to put kids in cages before separating them from their parents perhaps forever.

Mr. McGowan has a right to share his values. I just find those values thoroughly revolting.

matts853

Fantastic Fan. 👍🏻👍🏻

public-redux

I imagine people who are opposed to choice with respect to abortion are also opposed to choice with respect to inter vivos organ donation. If you have a kidney that could save someone’s life, you should not have the option of refusing to donate a kidney. Right?

threecents

Yup, 17 people die every day waiting for an organ transplant. Personally, I got myself put on a bone marrow donation list in case someone with my HLA type has chemo or radiation and needs new marrow. Not sure why pro-lifers are not fighting to make it mandatory to be on those lists. Or if they are honest, do they think people should have absolute rights with their own bodies?

threecents

Blood donations should also be mandatory, right?

JustACitizen

Please don't overlook the Pope's decree that capital punishment is in violation of the Catholic Church's teachings, too, in all instances.

olefool

How many times are you getting, or have been pregnant Mike McGowan?? How many times are you going to need an abortion Mike?? How many times have you been raped and knocked up Mike?? How many times have you had your rights to privacy forfeited Mike?? What's that you say, none, none none and none??? If you're not a woman Mike then GTFO...

matts853

I haven’t read all the comments here, so perhaps this has already been said: If Donald Trump thought being pro-choice would win him the election, he’d be tweeting and rallying in support of it until the last ballot has been cast.

Don’t delude yourself Mike. Trump has no principles and no morals. He’s a political day trader that deep down could give 2 poops about this issue.

And then there’s this, Mike: Trump lied about Covid and politicized it for what he thought was to his benefit. His negligence and malfeasance indirectly caused 100s of thousands of people to die. But I guess it was just their “time”, eh.

Dude, you need a serious reality check.

NewMarketParent

45 has probably funded an incredible amount of abortions, but yet people who claim to be religious seem to have no problems seeing themselves aligned with a morally bankrupt philanderer.

public-redux

I don’t believe Trump has paid for any abortions. He may, however, have given financial gifts to certain women. But that is an indication of his generosity to almost complete strangers.

awteam2000

Mike, I’m sure you have good intentions but criminalizing abortions? ‘Matter of fact’, you would make abortions more dangerous. Ones personal choices over their own body is an ‘inalienable right’, not transferable for your or my decision over another human. See: 13th, 14th amendments.

It’s righteous own your part to encourage and preservation of all lives. There’s nothing wrong with that.

But I think your efforts would be better spit in preventing unwanted pregnancies (sexual education, birth control, access to medical care and family support).

Abortions are declining by these means. Your objective would only make pregnant women potential criminals and endanger their lives. Is that really what you want?

Greg F

Exactly....right to life, yet they want to elect a guy who has zero respect for anything, and is a fake x-tian simply to get their vote, and if they were so right to life, they would not have killed so many to convert to their religion over their history. All of religion needs to go into the dust bin of history. It is nothing but corrupted stories from people who founded it back when we had no knowledge of the universe or where the sun went at night. Time to retire it all.

NewMarketParent

@Greg F

Right to life folks, aren't. They are pro-birth. When you scratch below the surface, you find an incredible amount of misogyny on top of that patriarchy salad.

matts853

Climate change is the preeminent issue. It’s an existential threat to all life. We are not the only beings that live on this planet, but we act like it. We have demonstrated the ability to end the existence of entire species through many of the unnatural human practices that caused climate change in the first place - that’s immoral. In fact, we’re on a path to be one of the shortest lived species to ever roam the Earth. Now, if you’re only concerned with human life because you think we have dominion over all life on Earth - like many evangelicals and devout Catholics do - then you should be able to recognize climate change at least as a human rights issue. More people will die from climate change than the unborn who are aborted. That is unless you believe in the fairytale of creationism and therefore God is in charge of the climate. People who believe that are not rational.

To me, abortion is an individual and family issue. It doesn’t affect anyone outside that circle. I have a 13 y/o daughter and of course don’t want her to ever grapple with this decision. But it’s her’s to make and your guilty conscience is your business alone.

With that said, I’m 100% against aborting a fetus (@ 8 weeks) and I am appalled by late term abortion which is plainly murder. I’d probably disown my daughter if she ever did that. But I don’t believe sentience is achieved at conception. So, if a person can’t decide after 8 weeks, then I think they’re morally obligated to take the baby to full term.

Full disclosure - I’m Catholic too. I graduated from Catholic middle and high school. But I consider myself an apostate of the church. Accept women into the full clergy and allow the clergy to marry and maybe I’ll take the church seriously. If same sex marriage within the clergy is a bridge too far, I would understand that.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@matts

I don't think you understand what actual late term abortions are? Your comments concerning late term abortions are troubling to me. So here is a really excellent article from the WPO

Tough questions — and answers — on ‘late-term’ abortions, the law and the women who get them

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2019/02/06/tough-questions-answers-late-term-abortions-law-women-who-get-them/

You need to study up on "late term abortions"....and no you would not disown your daughter if she ever had an abortion. You do realize that is very troubling you feel that way? Isn't your daughter's body hers and hers alone to control? By you saying you would disown your daughter simply because she had a abortion is saying that you are in control of her body and have no problem with people like Mike controlling your daughter's body. But I don't think you mean that? Your daughter is allowed to control her own body right?

matts853

Re-read what I wrote.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@matts

Re-read what i wrote.

threecents

Matt, What did Purp miss? You basically said an abortion after 8 weeks is murder. Purp disagrees. My opinion is that a person should have full authority over their own body, whether or not I agree with their decision and whether or not a fetus has some sort of rudimentary consciousness.

nancypace

I hope none of us ever judges ourselves or one another on the basis of the worst thing (or things) we've ever done. ❤️

MD1756

PurplePickles, let's face it, when one chooses to have an abortion it is about controlling the destiny of the fetus not one's own body. While the fetus has similar DNA, it is distinctly different than the mother's DNA. So in reality the woman is choosing an action with the intent to harm the fetus. That said I am pro abortion but don't try to hide it as a woman choosing to do what she wants with her own body.

matts853

That’s a good point MD.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@MD

Let’s face it as long as that fetus needs a body to survive that body has a right to control their own destiny. I am pro-choice and I don’t try an imagine what a woman is thinking when she decides her own destiny, I trust that woman knows what destiny she’d like to have.

nancypace

Those who control the option of having an abortion absolutely control the mother "destiny" in terms of time, money, focus, options, etc.--not just the "destiny of the fetus." If she decides to carry the child for adoption, she has no control over her "destiny" during the term of the pregnancy.

threecents

MD, I disagree some of your opinions. Interesting that you refer to yourself as pro-abortion, rather than pro-choice. Like many, I am pro-choice and anti-abortion.

MD1756

threecents, I'm not sure what part of my comment was an opinion. The fetus/baby does have different DNA and is not the mother's body. That's a fact. I don't use the term pro-choice because the majority of the people use that term to mean the mother's right to choose what she does with her body (ignoring that the intent is to kill something else). Having said that, there are in my opinion, many legitimate reasons for someone to decide to have an abortion (although given the choice, the fetus/baby may not make the same choice as the mother).

Purplepickles, I'm not saying the mother doesn't have the right to abort the baby, just call it what it is and don't try to sugar coat it.

threecents

That's funny MD that you don't think you expressed opinions about motivations - because I suggest you reread what You wrote.

MD1756

three cents, your response was basically nonresponsive. Pure and simple, aborting a fetus is the choice to end another creature's life. That's not an opinion, that is fact.

DickD

As another Catholc,let me say that I agree with you, Matt.

matts853

Thanks D. I believe it to be a reasonable and humane middle ground on this issue.

shiftless88

Hey Mike; if you think that reducing abortions is the goal then I am confused why you would not support the candidate who supports Obamacare. Studies have shown that the birth control and services available to many under Obamacare drove abortions to historic lows. So what's your problem?

Greg F

Ah, yes...birth control...something Catholics have been averse to for centuries. Do recall that Monty Python bit about Every Sperm is Sacred....it fit then and still fits today. Yet once the kid is born, they don't give a rat's patoot.

PurplePickles aka L&M

So about those kids in cages Mike? You are not pro-life you are anti-choice let's clarify that. If you were truly pro-life this letter would have been about those kids in cages, and it isn't, so you're not. What about those already born children that were ripped away from their parents, some were breastfeeding babies, now your beloved orange one can't find their parents, what about them? You don't give a rat's behind about them do you? So you are not pro-life, you are anti-choice.

Also why is it a man thinks he has the right over a woman's body that he would deny her the right to control her own reproductive freedom? How would Mike like it if he was forced to give up control over his own body, say he was forced to donate a kidney, of part of his liver....I'm pretty sure Mike would be screaming bloody hell, wouldn't he? And yet he expects a woman to just allow him control over her?

Mike just wants the power to control another human being, and that is really sick if you think about it. Pro-life my behind.

So why would anyone vote for someone that doesn't allow them to control their own bodies? Pretty sure Mike would not vote for anyone that would try and control his body.

nancypace

Good argument Purple but personal attacks are almost never persuasive. Figuring out what you agree with and then clearly stating your very different perspectives always works better.. "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." I like your passion and your civic mindedness--and I so appreciate your taking the time and effort to write on subjects you car3e deeply about.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@nancypace

I'm done being nice and please don't tell me what I can or cannot say in the comment section or how to say it. And try being a tad less condescending. You don't like what I say then feel free to skip my comment.

nancypace

Sorry to be an old-lady schoolteacher.... I took a course on persuasive writing once!

PurplePickles aka L&M

@nancypace

Yeah being persuasive has gotten us far hasn't it? I mean it's not like we are constantly having to fight people like Mike all the time to have control over our own reproductive freedoms is it? And you know full well if it was the man that got pregnant abortions would be available at your local Walmart.

nancypace

I have been persuaded to change my mind more (in my life) by the kind, caring, patient folk I disagreed with than by upset people. I get upset all the time and I'm terrible at conflict but age (and beating my head against innumerable walls) has taught me that change is hard for everyone (life is hard for everyone) but people only learn/grow/change when someone reasonable they care about is kind and patient enough to dialogue (exchange perspectives.) BTW, the Dalai Lama calls this the Age of Dialogue. Maybe I'll keep dialoguing in this comment section? Or not. Very time-consuming, but also fun. I really appreciate those (like you) who care enough to engage in civic dialogue and exchange views. Very informative--and a chance to shape the local/national/global conversation too, in small ways. It takes time and energy--but we both have much that is thoughtful to share. 🙄🤫😊

awteam2000

Nancy, you are not an ‘old-lady’ but have years of valued experiences. Kind of a well thought-out youth. 👍

nancypace

UR nice awteam.... 😊 Actually, I made a lot more mistakes than most people did (I was kind of a reckless scatterbrain.) On the other hand, since I'm fortunate to still be alive, I learned that mistakes are opportunities to learn what we failed to learn the first (second) (third) (whatever) time around! 😜😜❤️

DickD

Let me add, Nancy is a nice lady, no matter what her age.

Hayduke2

The author states "People who have already been born are deciding if an already conceived unborn child, vulnerable and helpless, should be terminated." By taking away an individuals extremely personal decision to make a choice based on their circumstances, medical concerns or personal beliefs, are you not advocating the same? If so, isn't that the very definition of hypocracy?

PurplePickles aka L&M

@hayduke

It is the very definition of hypocrisy, and he knows it, but he doesn’t care as long as he is lord and master over a woman’s body. He wants submission not logic!

nancypace

A doctor friend once told me that the two unhappiest women in the world are those who WANT to be pregnant and aren't, and those who DON'T want to be pregnant and are. I agree that deciding whether or not to have an abortion (like deciding whether or not to have sex) ought to be an excruciatingly important moral decision, regardless of whether one sees abortion in terms of the sanctity of human life, the right of unborn children to live, or the right of all of us to determine or change the paths of our own individual lives based on our own individual moral values. The decision to abort unborn life ought to weigh all of these. But political "leaders" who wish to confuse and control and divide and polarize us (especially Catholics) over this single emotional and religion-laden issue are so hypocritical! Sanctity of life political and religious stances are absolutely legitimate moral issues, but only if you also protest and vote against all killing--if you reject arming the world, dropping bombs, capital punishment, the arms race, deadly imprisonment, extreme poverty, economic exploitation, etc.--every bit as strongly as abortion. Otherwise--are you really acting in good faith? Or are you just being manipulated politically by those who want your vote and money? Dead babies are a tragedy, as are young innocent soldiers. I'll vote for whomever I think would make the best difficult moral decisions for me and for our nation and the world--and I hope you will do the same. Your moral struggle over this question is very admirable--as are the moral struggles of your (our) wonderful Pope Francis. Thank you for writing. ❤️

Hayduke2

Well written response Nancy. Thank you.

Dwasserba

Well. This was kind of the issue. There are kids in cages, homeless, immigration, in fact a number of "life" issues to consider when choosing a candidate, and many Catholics don't feel free to respond to the discomfort they feel over these other issues. I was that child granted life and then adoption, and I'm an adoptive parent. I have always been anti-abortion. Pro-life is a bigger picture.

DickD

I have argued this with my adopted daughter, Deb

public-redux

Some people say that they regard abortion as murder. Some have described the 60 million abortions since Roe as an American holocaust. Assuming they mean what they say, one would think that they would support any and all measures to reduce abortion. Many of those measures would reduce abortion by reducing unwanted pregnancy. They would support — indeed, they would demand — comprehensive sex education for children, cheap and ready access to contraception, subsidized child care for children born into poor families, affordable pre-natal care. All of these measures reduce either unwanted pregnancies or lessen financial barriers to parenthood.

I know there are many sound objections to these measures. However, are those objections sufficient for people who regard abortion as murder?

People who describe themselves as pro-life should decide what is more important: making abortion illegal or reducing the number of abortions. They aren’t the same thing.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@public-redux

Nope they are not the same thing, making abortion illegal or reducing the number of abortions because I bet if you could ask Mike if advocates for birth control you'd be stunned by his answer.

public-redux

I suspect that I would not be stunned by his answer.

I’m simply observing that, for people who regard abortion as murder, contraception is surely less horrific. Or maybe they don’t actually regard abortion as murder.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@public-redux

My apologies, you would not be stunned by his answer.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@public-redux

I will add this, they don't actually regard abortion as murder, they regard abortion as a woman having control over her own body and that to them is was more horrific than murder.

nancypace

Domination is what most hurts relationships--of all kinds--personal, marital, local, national, global. All domination has its basis in violence--whether physical or "just" attempting to control someone (however.) Win-win (i.e., non zero-sum) relationships take skill, time, patience, and effort to negotiate, but they are the only kind that work (and no one gets everything they want so forget that. Tradeoffs.... Compromises.... Acceptance.... Cutting our losses.... Staying or going.... Life is such a mystery. ✌️

PurplePickles aka L&M

@nancypace

Domination and control are the same exact thing, you can’t control someone without first dominating them, you can’t dominate someone without first controlling them. So your point is ?

MD1756

Purplepickles, you can dominate someone without actually controlling them and you can control someone without dominating them. It's all a matter of degrees. Rarely if ever does someone have 100% dominance or control over another.

public-redux

Purple, I don’t think opposition to abortion is as monolithic as you suggest. Not to say that there isn’t a lot of overlap. There is the murder crowd, the control crowd, the parenthood as punishment crowd, the religious crowd, etc. If memory serves, about 10% of atheists oppose legal abortion. (Nat Hentoff was fairly prominent in the 1990s as an anti-abortion secular humanist.)

My point was fairly constricted: It is hard for me to believe that someone who regards abortion as murder would consider subsidized contraceptives or comprehensive sex education as worse than murder. And yet I don’t see the murder crowd agitating for public policies that could significantly reduce the number of abortions (legal or not).

It is a puzzle.

Brookhawk

I found an old tombstone in a graveyard once - very old. It was of a baby - said "illegitimate - murdered." When abortion was not available, some would dispose of unwanted children after they were born, just kill them like unwanted puppies. Lots of women got illegal abortions and some died before abortion was safe and legal. But I guess it's okay with the writer of the letter to go back to that.

Dwasserba

Well. Abortion isn't "safe"...for everyone. As that former fetus, I do appreciate when that is acknowledged. Many of us survived passive attempts. I was 4 lbs and full term in 1952, it was months before I was placed for adoption. I don't know what risks for me may have preceded. A Catholic, she worked up to the day. One visit to a "clinic" - no other prenatal care. I was concealed even from the relatives she supported and lived with. I am glad my birthmother did not risk illegal abortion. Because even back then, working in a professional job that might have fired her, there were alternatives. That's just what the fact is.

NewMarketParent

@Brookhawk

To that end, I really hope you are putting your money where your mouth is and supporting orphanages, the March of Dimes, higher taxes to support health care or else you are just paying this issue lip service.

threecents

Brookhawk[thumbup][thumbup]

Comment deleted.
Thewheelone

Greg F Your post here is noteworthy, but no need to tell someone to "get bent."

MrSniper

Do you think before Roe vs Wade abortions didn’t happen in the United States? Do you think if all of a sudden if it becomes illegal once again they will end? Just like illegal drugs, everybody knows somebody, who knows somebody. Beware of unintended consequences. Go watch the movie “Dirty Dancing”. It ain’t really about dancing.

Greg F

I’m sure the author thinks her good book is a magic want that spouts unicorns.

threecents

True, outlawing abortions would result in many thousands of unintended tragedies. That is a fact.

threecents

Even Pope Francis says you should not base your vote only on abortion rights. He says stands on abortion are not more important than helping poor people and immigrants. US birth and abortion rates have been declining for years, and that is because of liberal policies, including sex education and family planning - things discouraged by the Trump administration.

Greg F

Religious right wing theocracies are the last thing we need https://www.metro.us/best-monty-python-moments-to-celebrate-one-time-only-show/

Welcome to the discussion.

Keep it clean. No vulgar, racist, sexist or sexually-oriented language.
Engage ideas. This forum is for the exchange of ideas, not personal attacks or ad hominem criticisms.
TURN OFF CAPS LOCK.
Be civil. Don't threaten. Don't lie. Don't bait. Don't degrade others.
No trolling. Stay on topic.
No spamming. This is not the place to sell miracle cures.
No deceptive names. Apparently misleading usernames are not allowed.
Say it once. No repetitive posts, please.
Help us. Use the 'Report' link for abusive posts.

Thank you for reading!

Already a member?

Login Now
Click Here!

Currently a News-Post subscriber?

Activate your membership at no additional charge.
Click Here!

Need more information?

Learn about the benefits of membership.
Click Here!

Ready to join?

Choose the membership plan that fits your needs.
Click Here!