In our history, there is a question asked so often it has almost lost it’s significance. Do you believe that Jesus Christ was killed and then came back to life? Really. I ask that question again. Do you believe that a man named Jesus existed, a man of Hebrew descent, and was crucified by the Romans and then came back to life?

That question has huge consequences for our country. It was the testimony and words spoken by this man Jesus that controlled the structure and thought of Western society for centuries.

We pride ourselves on our enlightenment and our scientific achievements. We pride ourselves on our freedom of thought, yet that question is no longer allowed to be asked in our government institutionalized public educational system. Why?

Is it any wonder that so many people are turning against public education? Controlled thought. It is time for a whole new series of constitutional challenges.

James Kline

Brunswick

(25) comments

DickD

There is no doubt in my mind that Jesus existed. His teachings were good and recorded 300 or more years later. How much of that is true and unchanged through the centuries is hard to say. But what really succeeded was the ideas and rules to live by, for all. But these are not Christian initiated values, they are Jewish and they were really guidelines on how to live. Besides there were many more than 10.

The Jewish tradition states there were 613 commandments (Hebrew: תרי"ג מצוות‎: taryag mitzvot, " 613 mitzvot") it is the number of mitzvot in the Torah, began in the 3rd century CE, when Rabbi Simlai mentioned it in a sermon that is recorded in Talmud Makkot 23b.

Without the rules, civilization would never evolved to the current level. So whether Jesus lived or not, we owe our civilization to those that established the rules.

When it comes to resurrection, you must believe in it, to be a Catholic.

As to teaching in schools, how can we objectively teach religion in schools. What religion would we choose and what do we do with those that want no religion.

The only logical way forward is separation of church and state, If you want children taught a religion teach them at home, send them to a church or a religious private school of your choice.

fnfn

Jim, your question is for the Spirit of Truth within yourself, or for anyone interested. It is not for teaching in schools, unless they are a church school not funded by the general public.

When you ask your question of a book, then that book must contain only truth and have no errors. The part about Noah's flood is not scientifically true any more than the sun staying still for a day. See: "The Rocks Don't Lie: A Geologist Investigates Noah's Flood" There were local floods, but no world wide flood. There were rainbows before and after. The four books of good news even have differences with each other. Again, ask the spirit of truth within. A better way can be to do the workbook in the Course in Miracles, to learn to forgive more and judge less...

vicdavy

fnfn [thumbup] ACIM [thumbup]

teapartier

Jim,
I’m sure you are familiar with this but here is a refresher,

The SCOTUS decision (Abington Township School District v. Schempp) in 1963 prohibited school officials from organizing or leading prayers and devotional Bible reading in public schools.

However, no Supreme Court decision or ruling has ever banned prayer or the Bible from public schools. As legal guidelines issued in both the Clinton and Bush administrations make clear, students have a First Amendment right to pray alone or in groups, bring their scriptures to school, share their beliefs with classmates, form religious clubs in secondary schools and in other ways express their faith during the school day — as long as they don’t disrupt the school or interfere with the rights of others.

If you are hoping for a “spiritual revival” in America’s public education system, it isn’t happening and will not happen.

And to your “simple question”, that answer can only be found in the individual’s heart.
Remember what you believe always precedes on how you behave.

public-redux

[thumbup][thumbup]

fnfn

dang, making sense allowed.

tonyc51

Simple question for simple minds. It is fine to believe as you wish, but to try to indoctrinate children in public school in religious doctrine is not correct, be it Christian, Buddhism, Muslim, Taoism or whichever made up myths that exist.

BstD59

I don't know what public schools you attended Mr. Kline but none of the public schools I went to permitted that question to be asked. My children, who were raised in another state, which was in the so-called 'bible belt' were never permitted to ask that question either. There is NO room for religion in our public education system. Children need to learn their morals, their integrity, and their religious beliefs from their parents.

dce26_210

Geeze...... I'm a smart guy, globally aware, not overly religious but I know what a church is and I've been around a long time. I've never heard that question before. If you are taking up space in the LTE area of the FNP you probably should have a subject that goes beyond your bathroom mirror. "So many people are turning against public education"? What percent are you referencing? Controlled thoughts and constitutional challenges are topics in which "so many people" would be interested. Give us your thoughts on those topics.

public-redux

No, I don't.

My turn. How do you know that what you believe about Jesus is true?

FWIW, the public schools do teach about the role of the Christian religion in the history of western civilization. As they should. I've never heard of anyone who opposes that.

threecents

James, we most certainly are allowed to ask those four questions in our government institutionalized public educational system. We are just not allowed to teach or preach the answers. By the way, the answers are yes to all the questions except the resurection one. Have a nice day.[ohmy]

olefool

Is the world flat??? Does the sun rotate around the world??? Is it possible for a human to emerge from an unfertilized egg??? Is it possible to survive death??? (If you know how please share that with us).

It was once the case that most people believed the world to be flat. Widespread belief did not change the fact that the world is a sphere. The scientific and observational evidence that we have available today is undeniable -- the world is a sphere.

All scientific evidence shows that God is imaginary. So does all historical evidence. This leads any rational person to conclude that Christian beliefs are pure mythology. Christianity is just like every other mythology that mankind has dreamed up through the ages.

threecents

Actually, I don't think scientific evidence shows whether or not there is a god. In fact the amazing evolution of life on this planet suggests to me that there may be a guiding force.

public-redux

I agree that the evidence to date doesn't rule in or rule out the god hypothesis in general. But science can test specific truth claims about specific gods when those truth claims involve natural phenomena.

But an undetectable god who either never interacts with the universe or does so in ways that are themselves undetectable -- that kind of god can never be ruled out. I just don't know anyone who believes in that kind of god.

threecents

Many Christians, Jews, etc, do not believe their religions doctrines. My reform rabbi says most of us do not believe the bible stories literally. According to him it is fine if we accept they are parables invented by people. Many, like me, believe there is or might be a god or force or whatever beyond our comprehension who sets the clocks in motion, and there are clues to that in the amazing complexities found in science.

public-redux

So far, to the best of my knowledge, a god has never been the explanation for a single complexity of nature for which an explanation has been found. On the other hand, there have been many complexities of nature that had been attributed to a god for which naturalistic explanations have been found.

That historical record -- gods batting oh-for-everything -- may be a partial explanation for religion's claims becoming ever more abstract, vague, and resistant to falsification. What is known as Sophisticated Theology. (The argument that many people of sincere religious faith don't really believe what they say they believe is a prime example of Sophisticated Theology.)

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Sophisticated_theology

DickD

public, explain to me scientifically how the world, the constellations and all in existence came into being.

public-redux

Dick, wherever did you get the idea that the science is settled on that point?

Now then, please explain to me how the notion that "God did it" can be tested for accuracy.

threecents

Public, That would be awesome if God would cooperate in a scientific experiment to prove or disprove his existance. There are bible stories in which he performs miracles for just that purpose, but those are probably just stories. What really go to me was, as a microbiologist, I was studying the smallpox and found a review article discussing how the very large genome of this virus contained a lot of genes encoding proteins each brillaintly designed to thwart different parts of the human immune system. It was biowarfare that seemed to me to be too sophisticated to have spontaneously developed through evolution.

public-redux

Yes, and each puddle of water has been brilliantly designed to fit perfectly into its uniquely shaped low spot of ground. The teleological argument has been refuted so effectively by others (e.g., David Hume) that I don't need to repeat any of that here.

So what is it about the theory of evolution that would have prevented the smallpox virus from evolving as it did? And how do biologists measure "sophistication" anyway?

DickD

Good thoughts, just explain to me scientifically how life started, what caused the known constellations and all from the beginning.

vicdavy

"Controlled Thought"? You mean like religious philosophy injected into a secular setting?

vicdavy

Interesting question,Jim. The historicity of Jesus is debatable and the metaphysical aspects are,as well, but much of the morality is great! The Gospels of Jesus,whether said by Jesus or someone else have value. Guatama Buddha said,in essence, the same things 500 years before Jesus. There is so much myth and politics in Man's Organized Religions that the Universal Truths are lost in perception and interpretation.

awteam2000

'holy moley'[unsure]

armillary

No proselytizing in schools, Jim. That's what churches are for.

Welcome to the discussion.

Keep it clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, racist or sexually-oriented language.
Engage ideas. This forum is for the exchange of ideas, insights and experiences, not personal attacks. Ad hominen criticisms are not allowed. Focus on ideas instead.
TURN OFF CAPS LOCK.
Don't threaten. Threats of harming another person will not be tolerated.
Be truthful. Don't knowingly lie about anyone or anything.
Be nice. No racism, sexism or any sort of -ism that is degrading to another person.
No trolls. Off-topic comments and comments that bait others are not allowed.
No spamming. This is not the place to sell miracle cures.
Say it once. No repeat or repetitive posts, please.
Help us. Use the 'Report' link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.