President Trump has been impeached. Can all Americans agree, at least, on what he did? There is a whistle blower, there are numerous witnesses, but one piece of evidence was produced by President Trump and he stands by it. In September, the White House, acting for President Trump, released a transcript of President Trump’s call with Ukraine’s President.

Here are the relevant parts:

Ukrainian President Zelensky: I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. ... We are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes. [Javelins are antitank weapons Ukraine uses in its war with Russia.]

President Trump: I would like you to do us a favor though… As you saw yesterday that whole nonsense [Mueller testimony to Congress], ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller… [T]hey say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you do it if that’s possible. … The other thing, there’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it…”

Anyone born speaking English can understand that Ukraine’s president asked for help with Javelins. President Trump refused help until Ukraine’s president agreed to investigate whether Ukraine, not Russia, meddled in the 2016 election and whether Democratic candidate Joe Biden stopped a Ukraine prosecution of Biden’s son. It is important to say that no one has produced a witness or document showing Ukraine meddling in the 2016 election (see Reuters report on U.S. Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs David Hale’s testimony to Congress) or that Biden’s son was ever under threat of prosecution.

As an English speaker, consider this example. You ask your neighbor to borrow his lawnmower. He says “I would like you to do me a favor though, help me move a couch.” Most would think two things. First, not saying “sure you can use the lawnmower” is a little unfriendly. Second, you are not going to get the lawnmower until you move the couch. Trump made it perfectly clear that before Ukraine got any Javelins, Russia would be off the hook for 2016 campaign meddling and Joe Biden would be on the hook for bribery.

Americans can still say that President Trump was just looking into corruption, but that isn’t his job. Where were the State Department, the CIA, and the Justice Department? Those are the agencies that investigate foreign corruption. Americans can also say President Trump was just exercising his great power, but the Constitution puts a limit on that power (see Article II Sec. 4). President Trump solicited a bribe from the Ukrainian president; help with his upcoming election. If he gets away with it, we will no longer be a republic.

Thomas Gill

Frederick

(68) comments

KMRD1

Tom Gill, Frederick County’s Nancy Pelosi.

olefool

You gotta admire the way Nancy is flabbergasting Trump.... She's playing him like a smooth tune on a one string banjo and he's lost.... All he's able to show are lies, innuendos and disgusting remarks about the "woman" who is cleaning his clock. It's masterful to watch.... She's showing him just how irrelevant he, his comments and his thoughts are to her and the vast (over 3 million) bloc of voters who knew what she knows. I'm ready to draft her for a run for his job..Want some fireworks???

DickD

Great idea and Trump already hates her. She would be a shoo in![thumbup]

awteam2000

The constitution is rather terse when it comes to how to proceed with an impeachment.

Impeachment is the process by which a legislative body levels charges against a government official. Impeachment does not in itself remove the official definitively from office; it is similar to an indictment, essentially the statement of charges against the official. So, if McConnell is just going to rubber stamp what Trump wants and simply hold a ‘kangaroo court’ rather than an objective trial, there’s no reason for the House to vote to send the charges over to the Senate. The impeachment has already happened. If the Senate won’t hold legitimate hearings why send the charges? It will simply go down in American history as Trump’s lubricous acts, in which he supplied no defense and partisanship prevailed.

Impeached will be branded on Trump’s forehead for ever.

Obadiah Plainsmen

You are short sighted. President Trump will be the 1st President to be impeached twice maybe three or possibly four times depending how fast the HOR can act before the election. I predict that if Senate just goes ahead with a trial and aquits, the anarchist will take it into the streets. Then things will get exciting. We have entered a new phase of politics, if you can't control democracy, you destroy it. It's looking very grim on the prospects of keeping this republic.

awteam2000

Wouldn’t that make him the most divisive president, most destructive?🤔

Obadiah Plainsmen

In your view he is. He is destroying the liberal agenda by appointing conservative judges, friend to Israel, pro-life, pro-2nd Amendment, going to war with the political establishment. But there is one area where you will find comfort, He and Congress are continuing the tradition of spending this country into oblivion. Debt will cause this Country to collapse not Trump

awteam2000

The huge tax cut for the rich without any way to pay for it sure isn’t helping. The national debt is at its highest since WWII thanks to your leader.

KR999

The national debt is at its highest since WWII thanks to Trump, aw? You seem to [conveniently] forget Obama's contribution to that fact, to the tune of $8.6 trillion.

jsklinelga

awteam2000

Blinded by hate. The American people have a different consensus. The impeachment has only increased President Trump's support. Further branded is the DNC and the House Democrats as the true deplorables.

One fact that has been overlooked. It was not just President Trump that wanted the corruption in Ukraine.investigated. Not to mention the Biden's and the Clinton's global racketeering. It was the people who elected him that wanted the swamp drained. Just as President Zelensky did in Ukraine. That fact will only grow in prominence as events unfold.

awteam2000

Jsk,

That’s an Interesting take see neither Biden nor Clinton are in Washington (the swamp) and Trump is a ‘swamp creature’ who has been found guilty multiple times for wrong doings.

And the American people - the latest poll shows support for Trump’s removal from office now at 55%, heading up.

https://hillreporter.com/this-latest-poll-has-support-for-trump-removal-at-55-54261

https://www.newsweek.com/more-americans-say-trump-will-viewed-poor-president-poll-1479236

Comment deleted.
hayduke2

Deny facts - sad

Obadiah Plainsmen

More impeachment facts:

The HOR has the sole( solitary) power to impeach.

The Senate has the sole (solitary) power to try all impeachments.

The Constitution excludes any requirement that the House formally notify the Senate that it has passed articles of impeachment.

There was a well-recognized legal principle during the Founding (and today) that if you list certain items, that list implies whatever is not included is therefore excluded. In other words, “if it ain’t there, it ain’t there.”

The Senate can hold a trial with or without the articles of impeachment.

Chief Justice John Marshall explains more in detail in his unanimous opinion( legislative branch vs executive branch) in Marbury v Madison.

awteam2000

Does the Constitution say anything about how many times one can be impeached? Can’t other disclosed “wrong doings” be charged?

Obadiah Plainsmen

Nope, if the HOR thinks the president did a thousand crimes, he can be impeached a thousand times.

awteam2000

You are right. It makes sense for Trump to block all documents and witnesses. He could be impeached “a thousand times.”

DickD

And enforce those subpoenas by adding impeachment items while Trump and Mitch fume. [lol]

gary4books

OK? "... that list implies whatever is not included is therefore excluded. "

And the answer is: “if it ain’t there, it ain’t there.”

There can be other articles.

DickD

That makes me wonder if the Senate could just start their hearing without the House articles of impeachment. No, that can't happen because the Senate needs the House articles and if the Senate were to go ahead, the House could amend the articles.

DickD

You left one out, OP. Pelosi is holding the cards and she is not dealing. [beam]

Dwasserba

Here we go. UGH. How many voters does my reaction represent.

DickD

Hurray! We have a honest Republican! Murkowski says she will sit back and judge honestly and fairly. She doesn't have to worry about Trump's support in the primary, she lost the last Republican primary, ran as a Independent and won.

jsklinelga

DickD

In reality are back and forths in this section are of little value. But I wish you would have responded to Senator Murkowski's complete interview. She was critical of the House [process and stated that if they really thought additional witnesses would have provided evidence then they should have proceeded through the courts. I guess she is saying from a total apolitical view that the obstruction charge is bogus.

DickD

You are arguing about what might have been done - if you had two or three years. That was not the case, you know it, Trump knows it. That's why they refused to testify. Your argument doesn't hold water, Jim.

jsklinelga

DickD

If there was compelling reason the court process could have been expedited. Compelling reason like evidence. And compelling, not just hear say..

hayduke2

Jsk appears to be trying to justify his stand when he knows there is validity to the impeachment- but it is hard to admit.

DickD

You call it hearsay, Jim. The House of Representatives calls it obstruction.

DickD

Jim, you said the court "could expedite". They could does not mean they would.

Piedmontgardener

Fair letter. I share the same concerns with U.S. Senators prejudging a matter before them and refusing to engage in spirited discovery and complete witness lists. When party matters more than country, we have a huge problem in the US.

DickD

You are worried about whether there was a whistle blower and not whether we have a criminal in the White House. Come on, shape up.

Comment deleted.
FCPS-Principal

Is that the new Republican fantasy-lie? The WB does not exist? I can't keep up with all the Republican fantasy-lies, so how do you?

Comment deleted.
sevenstones1000

And yet, everyone under the sun hears the call, and none stepped forward to report the facts.

And yet, when some brave whistleblower finally did, and Trump got caught with his hands in the cookie jar -magically the money was released.

Reader - are you really as easy to fleece as Trump thinks you are? are you really buying his story?

DickD

Absolutely right Tom. We already know the ones that post here that will only take the cult leader, Trump's version. They are not interested in the truth. It's like the Christian Today magazine states. They are putting Christian values aside to support Trump.

jsklinelga

Mr. Gill,

Additionally this whole process may lead to changes in the future. How can the House speaker be impeached? Is there a way? What if there is a controversial Democrat elected President in 2024 and the Republicans have a narrow House majority. All the key investigative agencies you mentioned will be headed and filled with people from the previous administration. It will be extremely easy to repeat this process in reverse. If, then as now, all fairness and sense of justice is abandoned for blind partisanship allegiance as we are now witnessing.

FCPS-Principal

Article I, Section 2, Paragraph 5.

hayduke2

Jsk- I find it incredible that you cite blind allegiance and can’t see that is on display with both parties, even more so with the Republicans who are afraid to voice honest concerns

jsklinelga

Mr. Gill,

You can place a Shiff like spin on the facts which would be par. For one there may not have been a whistle blower per say.. Speculation now centers on Fionna Hill as a contact to Congress.

Two. You have taken the conversation out of context. President Zelensky started the conversation about corruption. and mentioned he wanted to drain the swamp in his country. President Trump referred to the Mueller investigation which had just ended. Of course he wanted answers. It was a partisan driven witch hunt, fishing expedition, predicated on false facts and involved foreign interference paid for by the opposing political campaign.

Mr. Gill you can try to press the Democrat's version of the facts. You can trumpet the Democrat's narrative; He was impeached so he must be guilty and not worthy of being President; But thankfully the largest portion of the American people see what an historically corrupt process the impeachment has been. The only real supporters of the impeachment are the ones blinded by hate to the real injustice that has taken place.

marinick1

[thumbup]

phydeaux994

Or, conversely, Trump did all of the things contained in the Democratic narrative, which is the narrative all of the facts support and which any reasonable person would accept to be the truth considering the Tramp camp has presented no facts to the contrary.

DickD

Another epistle spinning the facts.

olefool

Of all the writings that jsk has posted here over the months, this sentence "It was a partisan driven witch hunt, fishing expedition, predicated on false facts and involved foreign interference paid for by the opposing political campaign" is the most telling expose of his prejudices and biases. "A partisan driven witch hunt", really??? Mueller is a republican, appointed by Trump, a republican, directed by a republican leaning FBI and congress and eventually proven to be anything but partisan, thanks to Barr. "false facts"?? According to who, you jsk??? sorry jsk but your reputation for facts was and is well known to be spinning like a whirlygig when you write here . It'll take a thousand years jsk to undo the damage your hero has done to this country, let that sink in.

rbtdt5

Can you provide some examples of the damage President Trump has done that is going to take a thousand years to undo? I guess even one example will do.

DickD

All of our allies in Europe. Losing them and our democracy

What is it that you don't understand about what Trump is doing. He is trying to set up a kingdom.

rbtdt5

DickD - so we are no longer a democracy and have lost all of our European allies? At what time did we stop being a democracy? Was it a specific date? What allies have we lost? How were they helping us before and what are they doing to hurt us now? Last I checked we are still a democracy and still have our European allies and still have people lined up trying to get in this great nation. Please help educate and get me up to speed, are we still allowed to vote?

threecents

Pardoning war criminals is one example.

threecents

Convincing Iran to restart its nuclear program is another.

rbtdt5

Three - I'm confused, you believe it will take a thousand years to fix the damage done by pardoning war criminals?

DickD

RB. The mere fact that you don't seem to understand anything is plenty of evidence as to why you support Trump.

rbtdt5

DickD - olefool said that it will take a thousand years to undo the damage that has been done. I asked what that damage is and you jumped in with an answer that isn't true. Would you like to try another answer? Or wait and see if olefool can answer this? You can take cheap shots at me but you can't seem to stand behind your statements.

phydeaux994

I’ve told you a million times rb that sometimes we exaggerate to emphasize a point. You’ve done it many times as everyone has. If that’s all you have to criticize someone I would say you are losing the argument. Your Shepherd does it all the time to lead his flock. 🐑🐑🐑

rbtdt5

Thank you Phy, I was thinking that but have seen him/her say this more than once like they believe it. I just wanted to make sure no one was that silly. I'm not in the argument, so not sure how/what I'm losing, just wanted clarification.

olefool

How about 69,500 rb.... https://www.businessinsider.com/nearly-70000-migrant-kids-held-in-us-detention-centers-2019-11

Here's another: President Donald Trump continues to tell lies at a breathless pace.

Trump as of Dec. 10 had told 15,413 untruths during his presidency,

olefool

"are we still allowed to vote?" Well, over 600,000 people in Wisconsin and Georgia, being of a colored skin type were just purged from the voter polls, I'd have to answer your question: "maybe"....

awteam2000

Rdtdt5,

Maybe a thousand years is a stretch, but it will be a real long time and hard to put “A City upon a Hill" as our motto. A phrase derived from the parable of Salt and Light in Jesus's Sermon on the Mount. In a modern context, it is used in United States politics to refer to America acting as a "beacon of hope" for the world.

threecents

Good catch Rbt; those damages might be cleared up in only 100 years. My mistake. I should have said the global warming thing. That might take 1000.

DickD

Jim doesn't want facts, he is a member of the Trumpism cult. What Trump says, Jim echoes.

rbtdt5

You are an expert on facts? Like we have lost our democracy or we have no European allies? lol

DickD

You use Trump's lies as facts and tell me what I say is not a fact. You are ridiculous, RB.

rbtdt5

DickD - You seriously think we have lost our democracy and said we have lost all our European allies. Do you believe those are facts?

phydeaux994

We have not lost our Democracy....yet, but not because Trump isn’t trying. Trump has attacked and insulted every one of our traditional Allies, to the point they mock him and laugh at his ridiculous antics. He has pulled us out of the Paris Accord and the Iran agreement which our Allies rightly support and which are suffering now for lack of U.S. Leadership and backing. It is hurting our own American Security and our Allies and in the World. Or best “Friends” are now Russia, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey who Trump has helped in their effort to “destroy” us by believing their lies and ignoring the truth provided by OUR experts.

FCPS-Principal

The only truth I can find in all your speculative nonsense is the impeachment of Bill Clinton was corrupt. Thank you.

gabrielshorn2013

No. The persecution of Bill Clinton was corrupt. The prosecution of Bill Clinton for perjury was correct, and fully within the law.

DickD

Yeah, it was wrong, it was illegal, but it had nothing to do with running the country. What Trump has done has everything to do with running the country.

niceund

Facts? You might want to take a less biased approach to reporting "facts". Insulting half the population is not just reporting, its slanting the written facts for your own pleasure.

bnick467

The fact that you consider someone reporting the truth as "insulting" tells us a lot about your politics.

DickD

Trump insults everyone, so why does that bother you?

FCPS-Principal

Not quite everyone. It does not insult those who kiss its butt and cover up its wrongdoings.

DickD

I stand corrected!

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