WASHINGTON — Still sickened by COVID-19, President Donald Trump plunged back on Tuesday into playing down the disease that hospitalized him for three days and has so far killed more than 210,000 Americans. He compared it anew to the seasonal flu and signaled he plans to return soon to the campaign trail.

Back at the White House after a dramatic helicopter return from the military hospital where he was receiving an unprecedented level of care for COVID-19, Trump’s attitude alarmed infectious disease experts. And it suggested his own illness had not caused him to rethink his often-cavalier attitude toward the disease, which has also infected the first lady and more than a dozen White House aides and associates.

Anxious to project strength just four weeks from Election Day, Trump, who is still contagious with the virus, tweeted Tuesday morning that he is planning to attend next week’s debate with Democrat Joe Biden in Miami. “It will be great!” he said.

In a letter, Trump’s doctor, Navy Cmdr. Sean Conley, said Trump had a “restful” night at the White House and that on Tuesday “he reports no symptoms.” On Monday afternoon, shortly before his departure from Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, Conley offered that the president would not be fully “out of the woods” for another week.

The scale of the outbreak at the highest levels of the U.S. government was still being uncovered. On Tuesday, the nation’s top military leaders including the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Mark Milley, and the vice chairman, Gen. John Hyten, were in quarantine after exposure to Adm. Charles W. Ray, the vice commandant of the Coast Guard.

It was not known how Ray contracted the virus, but he attended an event for military families at the White House on Sept. 27. The Coast Guard said in a statement that Ray felt mild symptoms over the weekend and was tested on Monday.

Trump returned to the White House Monday night aboard Marine One, gingerly climbing the South Portico steps before removing his mask and giving a double thumbs-up from the terrace, where aides had arranged American flags for the sunset occasion. He entered the White House, where aides were visible milling about the Blue Room, without wearing a face covering.

In a video released later, Trump offered a nonchalant take on the virus, contravening the public health warnings of his own administration that Americans take the threat seriously and to take precautions to avoid contracting and spreading the disease as cases continue to spike across the country

“Don’t be afraid of it,” Trump said. “You’re going to beat it. We have the best medical equipment, we have the best medicines.” His remarks were strong, but he was taking deeper breaths than usual as he delivered them.

Left unsaid was that the president’s experience with the disease has been far from typical, as his doctors rushed him onto experimental antiviral drugs and prescribed an aggressive course of steroids that would be unavailable to the average patient. While most must cope with their symptoms — and fear of whether they’ll take a turn for the worse — at home and alone, Trump had been staying in the presidential suite of one of the nation’s best hospitals, and he’s now at the White House, where there is a team of doctors on call with 24-hour monitoring.

On Tuesday, Trump also returned to his previous comparisons of COVID-19 to the seasonal flu.

“Many people every year, sometimes over 100,000, and despite the Vaccine, die from the Flu,” he tweeted. “Are we going to close down our Country? No, we have learned to live with it, just like we are learning to live with Covid, in most populations far less lethal!!!”

In fact, COVID-19 has already proven to be a more potent killer, particularly among older populations, than seasonal flu, and has shown indications of having long-term impacts on the health of younger people it infects. And the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that influenza has resulted in far fewer yearly deaths than Trump said — between 12,000 and 61,000 annually since 2010.

Just days before, Trump suggested he had finally grasped the true nature of the virus, saying in a video, “I get it,” moments before he ventured out of the hospital while contagious to salute cheering supporters by motorcade — an outing that disregarded precautions meant to contain the virus.

Trump’s efforts to play down the threat of the virus in hopes of propping up the economy ahead of the election have drawn bipartisan criticism.

Republican Sen. John Cornyn of Texas told the Houston Chronicle editorial board that Trump had “let his guard down” in his effort to show that the country was moving beyond the virus and had created “confusion” about how to stay safe.

“We have to be realistic in this: COVID is a complete threat to the American population,” Dr. David Nace of the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, said of Trump’s comment.

“Most of the people aren’t so lucky as the president,” with an in-house medical unit and access to experimental treatments, added Nace, an expert on infections in older adults.

“It’s an unconscionable message,” agreed Dr. Sadiya Khan of Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine. “I would go so far as to say that it may precipitate or worsen spread.”

Likewise, Biden, who spent more than 90 minutes on the debate stage with Trump last week, said during an NBC town hall Monday night that he was glad Trump seemed to be recovering well, “but there’s a lot to be concerned about — 210,000 people have died. I hope no one walks away with the message that it’s not a problem.” Biden tested negative for the virus on Sunday.

Biden said he’d “listen to the science” ahead of the upcoming debates, adding that the campaigns and the debate commission should be “very cautious” in making plans. “If scientists say that it’s safe, that distances are safe, then I think that’s fine,” he said. “I’ll do whatever the experts say.”

Conley said that because of Trump’s unusual level of treatment so early after discovery of his illness he was in “uncharted territory.” But the doctor also was upbeat at an afternoon briefing and said the president could resume his normal schedule once “there is no evidence of live virus still present.”

According to the CDC, those with mild to moderate symptoms of COVID-19 can be contagious for as many as — and should isolate for at least — 10 days.

Trump’s arrival back at the White House raised new questions about how the administration was going to protect other officials from a disease that remains rampant in the president’s body. Press secretary Kayleigh McEnany announced she had tested positive for the virus Monday morning and was entering quarantine.

There were also lingering questions about potential long-term effects to the president — and even when he first came down with the virus.

Conley repeatedly declined to share results of medical scans of Trump’s lungs, saying he was not at liberty to discuss the information because Trump did not waive doctor-patient confidentiality on the subject. COVID-19 has been known to cause significant damage to the lungs of some patients. Conley also declined to share the date of Trump’s most recent negative test for the virus — a critical point for contact tracing and understanding where Trump was in the course of the disease.

At the hospital, doctors revealed that his blood oxygen level had dropped suddenly twice in recent days and that they gave him a steroid typically only recommended for the very sick.

On Tuesday, Conley did not did not share details on the president’s medications. He was set to receive the fifth and final dose of the antiviral remdesivir Tuesday at the White House.

Vice President Mike Pence returned to the campaign trail moments after Trump announced he would soon leave the hospital. The vice president boarded Air Force Two to fly to Salt Lake City, where he is to face off against Democratic vice presidential nominee Sen. Kamala Harris on Wednesday.

———

Associated Press writers Lauran Neergaard and Jonathan Lemire in Washington, and Bill Barrow in Wilmington, Delaware, contributed to this report.

(98) comments

C.D.Reid

Yep, the cult sure was out in force yesterday. And they say I don't have a life! [lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]

bosco

Yeah, CD. I've been to busy in the shop to worry about Fido's LLBTT cult. Plus it's so easy to just scroll past their steaming piles of hate, derision, and prejudices. Time to get back to some real work and a real life. [thumbup][ninja]

NewMarketParent

WSHR's out here wishing they weren't always wrong.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@CD and Bosco/Eric Trump

Yep see I knew you loved us and we made you laugh, you came all the way back to check on us and leave a comment acknowledging how much you appreciate all the comfort our words bring you. So Sweet you two..so sweet....oh here is another joke to brighten your day

Trump: I'm going to build a wall!

Chapo: We build tunnels dummy, tell me how that's going to work for you.

How does Donald Trump change a lightbulb?

He holds the bulb and waits for the world to revolve around him.

Drgmtown62

Trump Cultists can't wait for their Messiah to return to the campaign. The atmosphere will be infectious!

NewMarketParent

@Drgmtown62

See what you did there. [thumbup] [thumbup][thumbup]

PurplePickles aka L&M

@Drgmtown62

I’m pretty sure you made CD laugh! He won’t admit it but he laughed.. ....hopefully he’s wearing a mask so he doesn’t get infected?

phydeaux994

President Trump just said that his getting the COVID-19 virus was “a blessing from GOD” that allowed him to receive all the latest treatments that have now made him feel “perfect”, better than he felt 20 years ago. He wants everybody that gets COVID-19 from now on, to get the same treatment “their President” got. And he is going to make it “FREE”. Dang, I just voted for Biden by mail, I hope I can change my vote. For “FREE”.

public-redux

“a blessing from GOD”

Why does he hate science so much?

PurplePickles aka L&M

@public-redux.

I don’t think he hates science as much as he thinks blessing god will win him the election, he doesn’t much care for the ungodded folk.

NewMarketParent

@PurplePickles

He only cares about God as much as he cares about the votes of the Evangelicals while thumbing his nose at their espoused values.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@NMP

I have often wondered what god those evangelicals actually believe in? Because how can you believe in a god and have no values, no morals, what god would be good with that? That’s an odd god..,,

phydeaux994

He really doesn’t believe in either GOD or Science since he knows more than either one....and the Generals....and anybody else for that matter.

PurplePickles aka L&M

Here is something to look forward to:

The stars may be aligned for Trump to be prosecuted..because that's what we really want to see happen right? He isn't out of the woods yet but given that he's getting the best medical care $750.00 can buy he should probably pull through.

State-level prosecutions for financial crimes are another matter entirely. The Manhattan DA, Cy Vance, filed a motion recently which implied that his office was pursuing charges that may include tax evasion and banking and insurance fraud. Meanwhile, on Monday, after dodging a subpoena for weeks, Eric Trump invoked his Fifth Amendment rights rather than testify in a separate probe of Trump’s businesses by New York State AG Tish James. There may be similar investigations underway in other states where The Trump Organization does business...

The crimes Trump is suspected of committing are easy-to-explain acts of fraud. He allegedly manipulated the values of his properties to defraud the IRS, banks and insurance companies. Those very crimes helped make the Trump family’s fortunes; as The New York Times reported in 2018, Donald Trump was earning $200,000 per year from his father’s tax fraud scheme as a 3-year-old and was a tax fraud millionaire by age 8.

Experts say that these kinds of offenses tend to be red-flags for money laundering, and there are a lot of questions about why Trump, who had previously done business with other people’s money, suddenly went on a buying spree acquiring money-losing properties with cash several years back.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/10/the-stars-may-be-aligned-for-trump-to-be-prosecuted/

Fingers crossed that we will see the hammer brought down on the orange one because that's what we really want to see, isn't it? Well maybe not CD or Bosco..or PDL or huskycats or V or Jerseygirl or JerryR......

NewMarketParent

@PurplePickles

Please stop. It is getting hard to contain myself.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@NMP

I know right, I am getting a tad excited, I was very worried this weekend because... but now I’m kinda clicking my heels up in glee because of what happened this weekend, does that make sense? When someone wants to keep digging their own grave you just have to let them. He lost his chance for many things this weekend but so far not the chance to held accountable!

NewMarketParent

@PurplePickles

Absolutely!

When the smoke is all cleared and all of the cards have been laid out onto the table, I hope he and his Russian handlers get everything coming to them.

C.D.Reid

My, my, as matts853 would say, "The cult is out in force today! Enjoy yourselves." [lol]

NewMarketParent

Have fun over in the kiddie pool and please stop eating the crayons and paste. Adjust your bib and let the grown folks over here talk. Shhhhhh

C.D.Reid

You write childish gibberish like this and consider yourself a "grown folk," NMP? THAT'S rich!!! [lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]

Greg F

It’s you jibber jabbering away and blathering stupidity CD.

C.D.Reid

And it's your incessant babbling, excessive stupidity, and lack of common sense that's the cause for so much laughing, Greg.

shiftless88

On the other hand, have we had such a moron in the WH before?

NewMarketParent

@shiftless88

I think this is the bigliest moron. Some would say, the yuugest moron. Soldiers would come to me, with tears in their eyes and say "Sir, we used to not have morons of your greatness, but now we do."

Also, Jyyna.

C.D.Reid

Well, right off the bat Jimmy Carter comes to mind.

NewMarketParent

You need to throw that bat into the trash and nuke the can from space.

Greg F

Carter may have been bad but he is not an evil whole like trump.

public-redux

Carter was a nuclear engineer. I’ve known a couple. Very smart. Carter was a lousy prez but I doubt he was a moron.

Hayduke2

But even Carter created more jobs than Trump

NewMarketParent

@hayduke2

Carter also gave up his farm to stop even the prospect of him acting in self interest.

45 couldn't even be bothered to even attempt to set up an actual blind trust.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@CD

It's nice to know you are reading our words, it appears they bring you great comfort.

I'm hoping that by reading our words some of them sink into your brain and cause you to critically think about a few things. But I'm not holding my breath.

NewMarketParent

@PurplePickles

You are dreaming the impossible dream. CD, Reek and the other WSHR clowns in the WSHR clown rodeo don't seem to possess the part of the brain which allows you to think critically about information, but readily accepts confirmation bias.

C.D.Reid

"Great comfort?" How about a great laugh. Day after day after day after day after day. And, trust me, I'm not the only one who's laughing at you people, either. [lol][lol][lol]

PurplePickles aka L&M

@CD

Doesn't laughter bring you comfort? You proved my point, probably without intending to, but you did. See I knew our words were getting through to you and hey if you want to laugh at us fine, some of the best political pundits are comedians. Trevor Noah who followed in John Stewart's footsteps and remember Michelle Wolf, I will never forgive Netflix for canceling her show. So laugh away.......[wink][wink][wink][wink]

PurplePickles aka L&M

@CD

OMG I am so mad at myself I forgot John Oliver....and Samantha Bee. What comedians make you laugh out loud CD?

C.D.Reid

What comedians make me laugh out loud, PP? You and your lib buddies here, that's which ones. [lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]

PurplePickles aka L&M

@CD

Did you ever watch The Colbert Report? I miss the Colbert Report.

And we could really use some words from Dave Chappelle right now...My favorite Chappelle skit is the Black-White Supremacist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaJKnU_5hD0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvZ-clcMCec

Lewis Black ? You like Lewis Black?

PurplePickles aka L&M

@CD

i am trying to be funny with my comments sometimes so it's nice to know you are laughing at me. It's sad we are your only source of laughter though? But hey at least you have us right? [wink][wink]

NewMarketParent

@PurplePickles

I don't think CD gets much joy out of life. If being a professional mark is his jam than so be it.

I hope those boxes of Herbal Life don't get too high in your garage, CD.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@NMP

I like how easy it is to get under CD’s skin, but that’s what happens when you can’t see how funny you really are! He thinks he laughs at us, I get some of my best material from him and the others. Sometimes I think those Herbal Life boxes have fallen on his head one too many times.

phydeaux994

Tell me CD, have these past 4 years been the happiest, most prosperous years of your life, having a President that you consider to be the best President in History?

NewMarketParent

@PurplePickles

All these people know is projection and whataboutism. That's about it. On their best days, the extent of their arguments ultimately delves into "I know you are, but what am I?"

PurplePickles aka L&M

@NMP

Sometimes they can’t even do the what am i arguments, so instead they ramble about nonsense, like Reek and PDL, or they just say we’re a cult or call us bullies, just because we hold their feet to the truth. Guess that’s why we think they are children who need a blankie and a nap!

Greg F

CD must have celebrated his kindergarten graduation recently since he can at least complete a sentence. It makes no sense, but it’s complete.

NewMarketParent

@PurplePickles

They do that because they are regurgitating things they have read from me. I'm really flattered, but also sad that all of them share that brain cell and it is hard to tell whose day it is to hold it.

PurplePickles aka L&M

@NMP

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. OMG I’ve noticed that too, that they share one brain cell... lol I thought that was just me? Split personalities using one brain cell not a pretty sight so I will try not to think about it but I bet a psychiatrist would love to have a look!

MRS M

Please CD. I'm literally begging you NOT to VIEW view the Lincoln Project's latest on youtube: "Covita". And PLEASE, do NOT contemplate sharing this. We're asking you respectfully, cd. Thank you.

Greg F

Yes...your trump cult is out in full idiotic force.

threecents

I'm enjoying it. Once Trump is out of office, he will have some splainin to do in court.

DickD

Trump is now a spreader of the virus; how ironic is that? He hasn't done anything yet to stop the virus, so now he has to convince you that getting the COVID VIRUS is okay. Okay for him because he was getting benefits only the POTUS can get, milking tax dollars as he pays almost none.

vodalone

You're a fellow Middletown'er, any idea why the ballot drop off box is still locked at the M'town VFD?

Hayduke2

Check it Vodalone - I thought the same for the one at Urbana but there is a narrow slot above the lock at the Urbana one for ballots...

vodalone

Yea I checked it, the little flap was up covering the slot with a padlock on it. No biggie just went to drop it off somewhere else.

DickD

It was open and usable Monday morning. And I saw others using it.

DickD

Do you mean you weren't able to use it? I did and got a email confirmation. .It's better, quicker and cheaper than U.S. Mail

vodalone

I highly doubt he even had the virus to begin with, sounds like all a big stunt to me.

NewMarketParent

@vodalone

It is hard to say one way or another. And we all know why. The president of the United States lies for sport. This is the leader of the free world and we can't trust one thing that comes out of his or this administration's mouths. That is where we are right now. The population of the US must depend on like 6 soothsayers and 12 oracles to decipher the word salad that flows from the orifices of the orange one.

Hayduke2

Vodalone - isn't it a shame that the president of the US put us in this position. His decit, misinformation and need to be the focus of everything instills this kind of skepticism in logical thinking people. When a person with his power has to play at leader because he has no skills and can only produce chaos, it seems that he has indeed turned the presidency into a reality TV show. Alarming and sad.

NewMarketParent

@hayduke2

Season 25 of The Apprentice "US Presidency" is the worst!

Hayduke2

NMP - I hope that it doesn't get renewed...

phydeaux994

Covita balcony scene. 🦧😷😂🤣

MRS M

Now on youtube. The Lincoln Project nails "it" again. It doesn't get any better than this.

Dwasserba

This is Your Guy, folks. Read the fine print. Please.

Greg F

It’s pretty obvious he is falling apart mentally, and the side effects of the experimental drugs are making him even less of a stable genius he claims to be. Every day new whacked out statements and actions. He is unfit for office. https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/07/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus/index.html

matts853

He’s so unstable that just yesterday, in a span of hours, he reversed course on supporting a Corona virus relief bill. He initially said he would shelve it until he was sworn in, but then the market tanked so he swiftly reversed course. His change of heart had nothing to do with helping Americans in need, it was all about keeping the market afloat to make him look good. This is so disgraceful. He has no idea what he’s doing. He needs to be removed immediately at least until he’s off these new meds that apparently are worsening his already inherent list of psychosis.

NewMarketParent

@matts853

This is very on brand. He wants to hold us all hostage in the hopes that it will secure us a win.

Let's repeat this so they all can hear it. "WE DO NOT NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS!"

DeltaOne

I don't think the market loss yesterday caused trumpie to change course on the stimulus relief bill. My guess...many Republicans from Congress called Meadows and said they needed the stimulus bill to get re-elected...they asked Meadows to get trumpie to change his mind. The only thing they care about is getting re-elected...they sure don't care about the American people.

Hayduke2

Wonder how much selling and buying was done by the Trump family and other R’s prior to and after the announcement

NewMarketParent

@DeltaOne

That is exactly what it is. They want to hold the American people and economy hostage. 45 is all about the scorched earth policy for the US if he is out of power. We are all going to watch in horror as this all plays out.

NewMarketParent

@Greg G

It's not just present tense. He was never fit for office, but some people love white supremacy more than they care about the country.

After the way he openly mocked a disabled person and a war veteran and a gold start family. It should have ended right there, but Republicans leaned into it.

Now we got Emperor Palpatine over here spreading COVID like season's greetings.

newspostreader

He could be in serious condition and would still downplay this. It's a shame really. It can't control our lives. We must learn to live our lives around it but the recklessness of his statements are over the top.

Dwasserba

It has to control our lives for now. Wash hands, mask, distance. There is no shame in being mindful. Mass contamination is nothing to be proud of!

newspostreader

Dwasserba - That's what I mean by we must learn to live our lives around it. We need to learn how to go on as normally as possible while also taking every necessary precaution. For example, the things you mention as well as mark wearing, distancing, etc.

NewMarketParent

@newspostreader

It's not just the recklessness of his statements. This dude has started shooting folks in the face with COVID in the White House and his supporters are still lapping it up.

Hope the stupids who voted for this trash enjoyed the ride.

rickleelittle

Here is the amazing thing. Go and read this publication. It is from the NEJM (New England Journal of Medicine), first published on February 28th. Yes, February 28th. Dr. Fauci and Dr. Redfield published a report stating the "clinical consequences of COVID-19 may be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza." FEBRUARY 28th! They knew the whole time. Now, ask yourself, who made you believe otherwise? And maybe more importantly, WHY? https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387

NewMarketParent

@rickleelittle

Sorry... I don't quite follow. From my understanding, our collective understanding of the effects of COVID is still growing. The more we learn, it seems like the more right we are to be fearful of the long-term consequences of catching it.

Dr. Fauci is very well respected in his field and a lot of the data that he had to go on early on was provided from others because 45 didn't want to send our scientists and doctors over to understand it better. Can you please elaborate your incredibly vague statement?

duffy5x

So you haven't read anything new about COVID since Feb. 28? Wow....

rickleelittle

Good News Stats of the Day.

1. WHO reports that 10% of the World's Population has been infected by COVID.

2. The World Population is around 7.8 Billion

3. That means 780 Million people were infected with COVID throughout the World.

4. WHO reports 1,039,406 COVID deaths.

5. This indicates the current IFR (Infection Fatality Rate) based upon the WHO numbers is 0.13%.

6. CDC numbers for the 2018-2019 Flu season were an IFR of 0.13%.

7. The good news of today, the WHO is indicating that if infected by COVID, you are no more likely to die than if you were infected by the flu.

vodalone

I do agree it's not the plague we all feared it would be, even though we reacted like it was because we didn't know much about it at first. Obviously the long term effects of this disease are still unknown as time will tell so it's best to be cautious but not to panic.

NewMarketParent

@duffy5x

That seemed to be my takeaway from his statement as well.

vodalone

@ rickleelittle. While I agree that is good news, like I mentioned it's not the plague like virus we feared in the beginning, the number of cases and dead people are based on unprecedented safety measures being undertaken globally i.e. masks, social distancing, massive closings, etc. If those weren't done like in any bad flu season, the numbers undoubtedly would be higher.

NewMarketParent

@rickleelittle

Ummmm...

Where did you learn statistics?

Firstly, there is a delay between catching it and it running its course, so your math is off so before you take your victory lap...

Using your same logic. There are 7.53M cases in the US, and there have been 211,000 deaths. Those statistics work out to be 2.8% mortality, not the paultry 0.13%. Please go take your idiot flu elsewhere.

NewMarketParent

@rickleelittle

https://covid19.who.int/?gclid=CjwKCAjwzvX7BRAeEiwAsXExo37FohwGegQWk263gh9-GVZammo7-ez74kyP0BezRPzVuzyC2QrhphoCdlIQAvD_BwE

Please stop spreading misinformation.

From the WHO's own website:

1,042,798 cases.... 35537491 deaths... do your own math....

That works out to ~ 2.9% mortality.

vodalone

@NewMarketParent The WHO did say there are most likely 10x the amount of cases than actually reported cases which would lead to 10% of the world being infected.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-54422023

I believe he's using this number but instead on a global scale just for US total number, which I guess is fair.

NewMarketParent

@vodalone

The problem is that we can only really deal with the data we have. While we can estimate the number of cases, we can't establish a reliable mortality rate base on that guess because those deaths wouldn't get counted as caused by COVID since we don't have a record of them having it.

That is cherry-picking data at best and is borderline malicious.

vodalone

@NewMarketParent

If it was malicious why would the WHO publish their estimate? Whether they have the data or not, otherwise they wouldn't come to such a brash conclusion.

You have to be objective and whether accept the data and its source completely or completely reject it, you can't cherry pick what is true or not.

BTW WHO aren't the only organization which estimates the cases to be much greater than documented cases, CDC, European CDC, etc. all do as well.

NewMarketParent

@vodalone

Which estimate? The 10 percent one is the only one I have seen. Rick seems to have used that 10% estimate with an actually measured death count. You can't have it both ways. Using it that way is intentionally skewing the results. That is maliciously altering data to support a false narrative and it is a really garbagy thing to do.

Hayduke2

Did you get your information from Trump University? Is that where you got your math degree too? Bet you're an anti-vaccine buff too.

NewMarketParent

@hayduke2

I am literally a scientist and while statistics may not be my jam, I do know crap data and intentionally skewing results when I see it. If rickleelittle or vodalone believe this cherrypicked garbage, it may be worth going back and evaluating a whole lot life choices.

NewMarketParent

@vodalone

My whole argument here is that you can't mix and match sets of data like socks. If you are going to use an estimate of the number of cases, you can't match it with an actually measured number of deaths. It's apples and oranges because you can't directly trace cases to deaths, so it is wholly inaccurate. It is misinformation at best because it used to create a false narrative that the death rate is lower than it actually is. That can cause people to take unnecessary risks because they are not being given accurate information.

You wouldn't want to get on a plane where the safety rating is an order of magnitude different than reality. Imagine I told you that 1/500 people die in plane crashes. Imagine if you found out it was really 1/5000. Both of those are wholly different numbers and would change your view on how safe it was.

vodalone

@NewMarketParent

You actually can and here's why. It's true that perhaps all Covid deaths are not counted, but in that case it's equally true some deaths are counted as Covid deaths even though Covid wasn't the cause of the death. It's a trade off that you have to assume equally or you just use the recorded deaths number and call it a day.

vodalone

@NewMarketParent

And I'm sure you're a scientist, just like we're all scientists here ;-)

NewMarketParent

@vodalone

It's true whether you believe it or not, just like science.

Also, COVID deaths are hard to diagnose directly as they may be masked by an underlying condition, so that would cause them to be undercounted. COVID seems to really do a number on the arteries and a seeming heart-attack or stroke could be caused by an undiagnosed case of COVID because of the collateral arterial damage. I would like to work with real numbers rather than estimates since we actually have real numbers and I live in the real world.

threecents

Rikki, That was very early on, and they were only speculating as to what the death rate might turn out to be once they figured out what percent of those infected get mild or no symptoms. Dang, don't you remember that? Another thing a lot of people - including Trump - don't seem to remember is that cloth masks were not in our vocabulary early on. They point to Fauci suggesting that people not routinely wear masks. He was referring to disposable masks - the only ones available at the time - and the reason was that there was a critical shortage of them. In fact there still is a critical shortage of the superior N-95 masks for hospital and lab workers.

threecents

Dudes, just go by the US numbers which show about 2.8% deaths among those infected - much more than 10x higher than flu, but significantly lower than the other recent coronavirus outbreaks: SARS and MERS. The difference being that SARS and MERS were much less contagious. There is interesting data indicating that those who mask but still get sick die at lower rates, suggesting, but not proving, that a lower infectious dose makes you less sick.

threecents

Rikki, Wrong. The world case fatality rate refers to the percent infected who die, not the rate at which the entire population dies.

threecents

I see NMP caught your mistake before me.

vodalone

@NewMarketParent So then you're saying you don't believe WHO, CDC, and other health agency data? Aren't the scientists making these educated guesses your "colleagues"? You're all over the place on this bud. I'm making conclusions on data being provided by the WHO and not letting politics skew my conclusion, the same can't be said for you I see.

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